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Sutras are so boring!

betaboybetaboy Veteran
edited June 2011 in Buddhism Basics
Namaste,

Sutras are so boring ... he keeps repeating the same thing a thousand times. What to do?

BB

Comments

  • jlljll Veteran
    Suttas are Buddha's words. If you dont like them, you can read books by famous monks.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    Suttas are Buddha's words. If you dont like them, you can read books by famous monks.
  • ThaoThao Veteran
    Yes, they are. I have no idea how to get through them myself. People must have had a lot of patience back then. But for me many Buddhist books by monks are also boring.

    The less boring books that I have read are by Thich Nhat Hanh and Jack Kornfield, but then after awhile, they also get boring.

    The other thing to do is to read them at one a day.

    Even the Bible is boring to me.

  • betaboybetaboy Veteran
    Yes, they are. I have no idea how to get through them myself. People must have had a lot of patience back then. But for me many Buddhist books by monks are also boring.
    I am specifically talking about repetition. He explains one point in four paragraphs, using more or less the same words. It's so exhausting.
  • Still_WatersStill_Waters
    Repetition had a purpose. The suttas weren't originally written down. They were passed down orally. The constant repetition helped drill the teachings into memory. I would suggest looking for edited versions of the suttas that are geared toward modern tastes (and attention spans) by cutting down on the repetitions.

    I can also recommend "Teachings of the Buddha" by Jack Kornfield and "The Buddha Speaks" by Anne Bancroft for short excerpts and heavily edited versions.

    See the following for an extended excerpt of Jack Kornfield's book:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=2_qAZvtDlL8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=teachings+of+the+buddha&hl=en&ei=EsYBTrS-M422tweStLWbDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

    And the following for Anne Bancroft's book:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=_NR5Ua9yVWcC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+buddha+speaks&hl=en&ei=yMYBTqumJMiDtgeouPD8DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Alan
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited June 2011
    Yes, absolutely. Repetition was an excellent way of retaining information in those days.


    .
  • budding_flowerbudding_flower
    @betaboy are you reffering to the Sutras or the Suttas... :eek2:
  • SpinyNorman2SpinyNorman2
    Namaste,

    Sutras are so boring ... he keeps repeating the same thing a thousand times. What to do?

    BB
    I agree, all the repetition can get quite tedious. I tend to skip over it myself.

    Spiny

  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited June 2011
    If you think they are boring, then don't read them and instead meditate more! :) You don't have to pass a written exam on sutta knowledge to become enlightened, you know. :p
  • TakuanTakuan Veteran
    Which ones are you reading? I like the Heart Sutra myself.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    With no TV or cell phones, what did you expect?

    Repetition may sound quaint and boring today, but when you look at a Buddhist meditation practice, what is it if not endless, boring repetition? Sit down, cross the legs, focus the mind. Get up. Walk around. Sit down, cross the legs, focus the mind. Get up. Walk around. Sit down, cross the legs, focus the mind. Etc. Etc. Etc. It doesn't matter how much students may whine with complete sincerity, "I understand!" Still, we repeat and repeat and repeat until, perhaps, we actually do understand.
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    I don't think meditation is boring. It's fun.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    I don't think meditation is boring. It's fun.
    That'll change. Stick with it. :)
  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited June 2011
    "boring" is just something the minds adds to an experience. In reality nothing is boring. You should throw that notion away. Meditation should really be fun. If you get deep it is very beautiful and all but boring. If you don't get deep it is interesting to see why not, so it's still not boring. However I can understand why some people think it is.

    I can also see how one perceives the suttas as boring, although I personally don't think they are. But as I said before, they are not obligatory to read. The 8-fold path should be or practice, that doesn't need a lot of suttas for everybody. You can have a PhD on Buddhist literature and still not really understand a single word of what the Buddha said.
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    No one said you have to read all the repetition.

    Even the Bible is boring to me.
    "Even the Bible is boring..."? I find the Bible incomprehensible. Parts of it, anyway.

  • zen_worldzen_world Veteran
    I don't think meditation is boring. It's fun.
    That'll change. Stick with it. :)
    @genkaku
    Why did you say that?
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    @zen_world -- My experience is that just about the time you say meditation is x, y, or z, it turns into a, b, or c. If it didn't, I guess it would qualify as boring.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    boring means that the energy needs to perk up in relation to the concentration. Try opening outward.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    The begats and leviticus did me in on the Bible.
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    The begats and leviticus did me in on the Bible.
    Has anyone tried to read the Book of Revelations? So much is said about it, Armageddon, and various predictions. I couldn't find any of that. It was like a foreign language. Maybe it depends on the translation one is working with.
    (Sorry, OP-minor digression. )

  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    edited June 2011
    The begats and leviticus did me in on the Bible.
    Has anyone tried to read the Book of Revelations? So much is said about it, Armageddon, and various predictions. I couldn't find any of that. It was like a foreign language. Maybe it depends on the translation one is working with.
    (Sorry, OP-minor digression. )

    Biblical Metaphor/Analogy/Symbolism... it's confusing.

    As far as Suttas go, I don't think you need to read them. If they're exhausting, read something else. Meditation and realizing the fundamentals are key. I have only read a Sutta when I'm looking for clarification on a topic. Think of it more as a collection of reference material :P

    You don't read a dictionary, do you? But when you come across something you don't understand in language, you pick up a dictionary. When you come across something in Buddhism, you find the correlating Sutta(s) :)

  • dharmadharma
    edited June 2011
    Actually, many times when I am having a certain issue or confusion regarding the teaching, I would open up the book randomly and it happens that the sutta discussed that very topic that is on my mind. So I refer to the dhamma as my guide through the suttas. I feel that it is more accurate than other sources. However, if you are not into it then you don't have to . Just read books or listen to dhamma talk by highly developed monks or dhamma teachers.

    If not just go straight to the practice and meditate , be fully present in daily life, practice metta, do good deeds and abandon negative words, thought and action.
    This is the important part that actually enable you to experience the fruit not the reading. Sure , reading is important in explaining why and how to practice when you get lost, but it is just preparatory work.

    With metta
  • newtechnewtech Veteran
    Haha bad luck, on my side, i dont like commentaries :).
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    I don't think meditation is boring. It's fun.
    That'll change. Stick with it. :)
    @genkaku
    Why did you say that?
    this conversation is funny to me because i've been reading The Myth of Freedom by Chogyam Trungpa and he talks about how, japanese zen for example, was designed to be absolutely boring and dull to a japanese person. however, a foreigner going into the experience will often come away and say, "wow! i had so much fun! it was completely different and interesting!" to the japanese, it is supposed to be daily work, but to an american, it becomes a work of art.

    "The tradition is trying to bring out boredom, which is a necessary aspect of the narrow path of discipline, but instead the practice turns out to be an archeological, sociological survey of interesting things to do, something you could tell your friends about"
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    edited June 2011
    There is a reason why the words are repeated.
    The reason is because it needs to sink into ones consciousness.
    About repetition and living it and being it.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Irony zombiegirl. Trungpa is so dynamic and exciting.
  • DazzleDazzle
    edited June 2011
    Irony zombiegirl. Trungpa is so dynamic and exciting.
    Hmm, he was drunk when I met him - which was hardly dynamic and exciting.

    :rolleyes:
  • dharmadharma
    It appears he wasn't aware of the basic lay precept, one of which is no alcohol. The reason is because it decreases mindfulness and not conducive to meditation development.

  • StaticToyboxStaticToybox Veteran
    I also find the suttas to be a chore to read, which is why I don't. I understand the repetition, why it was necessary back in the day, why it may be helpful to some today. But for me, personally speaking, if my eyes (and mind) start to glaze over while reading some I don't find it particularly helpful.

    With that sad I think it's absolutely essential to have the suttas easily available to anyone who wish to read them or to check them against the teachings of others.
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    I find the sutras as presented in discussions on this forum to be informative, and sort of predigested, without all the repetition. Very readable. The comments by the translators are very eye-opening, too, with discussion of how decisions in how to translate words or passages can make quite a difference in meaning.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    What do you think of Trungpa's writings Dazzle? How did he act when he was drunk?
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    dharma he was aware of the precept of course but he did not follow that precept.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    It appears he wasn't aware of the basic lay precept, one of which is no alcohol. The reason is because it decreases mindfulness and not conducive to meditation development.

    I only met Trungpa once. He was drunk. As I understand it, he began drinking after a bad auto accident. I knew he was drunk because, after I asked him some off-the-shelf Buddhist question I was using as a pretext to meet him, he opened his mouth and nearly blew me off my feet. Talk about high octane! Of the perhaps 200-word response he gave me, I understood exactly one: "Cheetos."

    But as I put my palms together and bowed a respectful farewell ... as I was coming up from the bow, his left hand shot out of his lap like a rattlesnake on a rat. He took my palm-to-palm hands in his and gently but firmly pulled them down. And when I looked up in surprise, I saw him looking me right in the eye. He didn't say a word, but his eyes said clear as a bell, "Let's cut the bullshit!" It was one of the best teachings I was ever to receive.

  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    edited June 2011
    He didn't say a word, but his eyes said clear as a bell, "Let's cut the bullshit!" It was one of the best teachings I was ever to receive.
    So what was the teaching, exactly? What did you get out of it? :scratch:
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    I like Trungpa's books. I have never met him.
  • santhisouksanthisouk Veteran
    Either read boring suttas, practice boring meditation, or face your "self".
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    no one is immune to alcoholism, i suppose. very sad, but very true. regardless, i really enjoy his writings.
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    edited June 2011
    Either read boring suttas, practice boring meditation, or face your "self".
    Surely this isn't all there is to dharna study/practice. :( It's amazing more people haven't given up! :lol:
  • santhisouksanthisouk Veteran
    Either read boring suttas, practice boring meditation, or face your "self".
    Surely this isn't all there is to dharna study/practice. :( It's amazing more people haven't given up! :lol:
    I always choose A and B of course. :)
  • mugzymugzy Veteran
    I'm a huge fan of Trungpa Rinpoche. His faults and failings make me like him even more - he wasn't perfect. His books are what led me to the dharma.

    Are his methods for everyone? Probably not. Even the Buddha spoke about the many different paths on the journey.
  • andyrobynandyrobyn Veteran
    Hi mugzy, your sentiment is one that I can relate to and also find useful - I also agree that there are many paths if we focus on the important aspects of the messages in the Pali canon.
  • jlljll Veteran
    I have a solution. Watch MTV.
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    Learn to chant the Suttas in Pali!
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran

    I only met Trungpa once. He was drunk. As I understand it, he began drinking after a bad auto accident. I knew he was drunk because, after I asked him some off-the-shelf Buddhist question I was using as a pretext to meet him, he opened his mouth and nearly blew me off my feet. Talk about high octane! Of the perhaps 200-word response he gave me, I understood exactly one: "Cheetos."

    But as I put my palms together and bowed a respectful farewell ... as I was coming up from the bow, his left hand shot out of his lap like a rattlesnake on a rat. He took my palm-to-palm hands in his and gently but firmly pulled them down. And when I looked up in surprise, I saw him looking me right in the eye. He didn't say a word, but his eyes said clear as a bell, "Let's cut the bullshit!" It was one of the best teachings I was ever to receive.

    @genkagu - great story! I knew it from somewhere - probably read your post on Esangha ages ago. It got stuck in my mind. I wish I had met Trungpa...
  • SpinyNorman2SpinyNorman2
    Either read boring suttas, practice boring meditation, or face your "self".
    That made me giggle...

    Spiny
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