Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
I'm Terrified of Dying
I find a by product of becoming a Buddhist and giving up my firm beliefs in an afterlife is that I am terrified of dying! My 40th birthday is a couple of weeks away, and I'm just terrfied of the idea that I will someday die.
It seems religion is such a comfort to us. It helps us avoid thinking about things we find uncomfortable. But, when we are no longer able to fool ourselves and make up some pretty Heaven to live in after death, we are faced with just death. And it seems that of all the thoughts with which we distract ourselves, the one thought we don't want to have is about dying.
Sometimes I think that every other worry I have is really just to distract myself from thinking about death. Do you ever feel that way? How do you feel about dying?
It seems religion is such a comfort to us. It helps us avoid thinking about things we find uncomfortable. But, when we are no longer able to fool ourselves and make up some pretty Heaven to live in after death, we are faced with just death. And it seems that of all the thoughts with which we distract ourselves, the one thought we don't want to have is about dying.
Sometimes I think that every other worry I have is really just to distract myself from thinking about death. Do you ever feel that way? How do you feel about dying?
0
Comments
My biggest fear is that there is so much left to do, that I won't be there for those I care for and that I really won't have accomplished that much. It's okay to be afraid of dying too. Katagiri Roshi had a fear of flying. I get apprehensive about being in a car here in America because nobody seems to pay attention when they drive. They fiddle about with the music, talk on the phone or listen to the radio. That scares me sometimes. One of my friends here is constantly talking on the phone when driving. I'm going to buy him a hands free thingy and give lots of talks when he comes to sit about 'JUST' driving. :poke: It's okay. It's human and natural. Every time I have that fear I allow it and it's okay. If I die in a car crash that's okay too. Another aspect of this fear is that it also drives us to practice, and to understand through our own realisation what life and death truly are, and that alone will enable us to let go of fear that has become neurotic, or fear that somehow paralyzes us rather than being a healthy emotion.
Buddhism doesn't really have much sympathy with the idea of being a comfort about death, or a comfort about anything come to that. As Dainin Katagiri Roshi, whom I just mentioned, used to say, "There's no candy in this practice." The Dharma instead insists that we find out for ourselves what life and death truly are, not through second hand explanations or beliefs, but by paying attention to things as they are - and there are no promises, no guarantees. That in itself can be scary, but it's also an encouragement to really do what needs to be done and not try to fool ourselves by telling stories about what might or might not happen when we die.
The important point of spiritual practice is not to try to escape your life,
but to face it -- exactly and completely.
~ Dainin Katagiri Roshi
It's a sentimental issue for me. I realize that at some point all of the loved people and cherished habits will fall away. Looking down the road there is a mix of joy and sadness because of all of the wonderful love in life that falls away. There is a strange beauty to life/death.
I believe there are much more learn-ed people here who have stated that historically speaking, other cultures (exluding the West) have looked for a way to end their suffering and that they're fear was to be reborn and have to face the sufferings of this existance again and again and again...
In the West, we've lived with the fairy tale of going on to a Heaven and living eternally or burning in Hell for an eternity - and we've got to figure out how to get to Heaven before this lifetime is up.
I think I'm with ZenMonk on this one. I think my biggest fear is that I won't have accomplished the things I wished or that my passing will be marked with nothing more than a couple of tears.
What difference will I have made? What egotistical mark will I have left to allow people to remember me by?
-bf
The one thing I do not fear about death is leaving things undone. I'm not sure why. It seems connected to the idea that if when I'm dead I'm just worm dirt and everybody else is too, then what's the point of making a difference or finishing everything? It seems once you're gone, nothing matters. But, I know this is a common feeling - wanting to finish things - I'm not sure why I don't have it. Mostly I feel sad about the idea of my death, like I'll miss myself. It's the same feeling I get when I look at my dog who is 8 and think he won't be around much longer. I must be much more self absorbed than you nice folks.
The "leaving my mark on the world" feeling does cross my mind from time to time. I wonder sometimes when I listen to a song I really like if the musicians are still alive. You know, I'm so affected by what they made and it's so beautiful.
And the person who mentioned the beauty of life. It seems the temporal nature is somehow linked to the beauty of it. If it were forever and always happy, it somehow wouldn't be as tragic and beautiful as it is.
I didn't mean to make it sound like I was quoting you directly.
Bad writing on my part.
-bf
I only think of my son "now" having the best that I can give him, teach him the lessons I believe he should be taught (for better or for worse!) and hoping that his future is filled with happiness.
Other than that - I don't look at him as being way for me to continue existing or for my genes to be carried on.
So... did you steal someone else's kids in your pic?
-bf
This is good to know. I've just wondered if my parents intend to live vicariously through me. My poor mom just seems to not have much going on other than me and the rest of our family, you know?
Yogamama you were already answering my question before I asked it, it seems. Do you feel having kids has somewhat allieviated your fear of a meaningless life/death. Does it seem they have given you a purpose or did you already feel pretty established in a purpose prior to having kids? Feel free to ignore me when I am being too personal, BTW. I have a tendency to get so nosey.
Since I have no children, I can't leave my mark that way. One of the things that I'm grateful for in being a nurse is that I can leave a mark on people's lives whether they know it or not.
I was critically ill last year and not sure if I had a near death experience or not. It was part of the brain activity in my opinion any way. But what it did is made me extremely grateful for every day that I do get. I'm 40 also and I have thoughts like yours. I don't fear dying. It's part of life actually. And hopefully I won't know when it happens either.
It's really too bad that many Americans never see death. I work in ICU so I see plenty of it. I guess the "sitting rooms" of yesteryear were actually the rooms where they would have their dead relatives lie before they were buried. You saw the dead person and got accustomed to it.
I guess my point is to make the most of each day that you get. I don't let a day go by without telling my partner that I love him. I want him to know that in case I do pass away suddenly. So tell the people you care about that you care for them as often as you can. Spend as much time with them as possible. It will also help you in old age to have those wonderful memories.
However, the thought of a long slow lingering death (no matter how much wished for me by some people) or a violent and painful death are obviously things I woudl like to avoid if possible.
I'm a very nervous passenger in a car (I was in a very serious car smash in my 20s and it has left its mark in more ways than one) and I think that is more fear of being badly hurt or crippled than actually dying.
Don't have kids so don't have to worry about them missing me. Don't really care about leaving a line behind me - any memories people have of me will do. If years after my death someone says 'Remember that daft old bat, what was her name now, you know, the one that used to ....' - good enough. Concerned that I won't have done all I could have by the time I go - but there will always be unfinished business.
I do think living a good, happy life makes a better death. At present I don't see much I would regret at death but for the time I've wasted worrying over small details or obsessing over big things I just can't change right now. I think planning for your death and what you don't want to have to regret later is a good way to live your life.
I agree completely. My husband and I do not ever leave each other without tons of hugs and kisses, and I swear we must say "I love you" ten times before we leave each other. Same with our daughter. I am sure that kid is so sick of all of our kisses and hugs!
Funny. I do not fear the actual dying details. I guess the idea I will not continue is the terrifying part for me. Though I am intellectually aware of what you say as far as "if I live on, good, if I don't, I won't know anyway," I just don't seem to grasp it in my heart. Just not existing right now seems terribly frightening. But, I am "sitting" with this feeling and seeing what it's about.
I like hearing how everyone else feels about it.
If that is a recent picture, I would never have guessed that you had a grown up son.
Well, death is kinda scary, but I'm used to it - however weird that must sound. When I was in middle school (9-12 years old), a lot of kids in my town were dying because of car accidents, mostly - since then, they've been VERY strict about license testing and suchlike. However, instead of an accident, a senior at my school, Ali, had a rare liver disease, and died 2 weeks before her graduation.
Of course, there's that lingering fear that I'll die in some freak accident and never get to work for the United Nations...but I'll deal with that later.
Since Ive developed an interest in Buddhism that has all changed. I feel like Christianity taught me to be a good person, to be nice and giving and to care about people. Ive never really had a lot of hatred and anything like that so I dont think Im going to be reborn in the three lower realms. As well I havent been a saint, going out of my way to help people, so I dont think I will be reborn in the two higher realms. I think if I just continued living the way I have I would probably be reborn as a human, though probably not nearly as fortunate a birth as I have had this time. But my Buddhist practice has given me something much more important to focus my life on.
I feel like being exposed to the Dharma has been the best thing that has ever happened to me. I really have faith that if I continue practicing these teachings, cultivating compassion and loving-kindness towards all beings, listening to my teacher and really devote my life to this that I may just break the cycle of birth and death this time around. This has given me a profound hope and drive in my life. Ive been trying to remind myself every day about death. I try to make the first thought in my head when I wake up that I might die today, when I go to sleep that I might not wake up. I found that this, along with some other reminders, to have had a profound impact on my practice and discipline. Its really amazing, to me, the impact that just changing such a seemingly small thing has had.
Keith
i've died in my dreams a few times and they're always really positive experiences, which makes it a less fearful thing.
Like Knitwitch i'm more afraid of the actual dying part - i've seen some pretty nasty ways to go.
In Britian (or is ot just my family?) the topic of death is a taboo, but something that is ever present, so when a death does occur people have no way of knowing how to talk about or deal with the issue.
"It seems the temporal nature is somehow linked to the beauty of it. If it were forever and always happy, it somehow wouldn't be as tragic and beautiful as it is."
Wickwoman and Beebuddy, I agree. I think it's like a rose. It's the impermanence of a rose that makes it precious.
Fear has been a constant theme in my life and overcoming it my greatest challenge, because it comes ONLY from me and involves overcoming "myself". I think fear of the unknown is an illusion but love and hope are not.
"...other cultures (exluding the West) have looked for a way to end their suffering and that they're fear was to be reborn and have to face the sufferings of this existance again and again and again..."
Buddhafoot, you explained my fear really well. But I'm getting over it by reminding myself that "me" is illusion and whatever part of "me" that passes along to rebirth isn't "me". It'll be like the forgetting of a dream when you wake up. I consider impermanence to be a blessing. My concern is what I imprint on my mindstream.
Ken Wilber really helped me with this:
"But even the smallest glimmer of One Taste and your world will never be the same. You will inhale galaxies with every breath and sleep as the stars all night. Suns and moons and glorious novas will rush and rumble through your veins, your heart will pulse and beat in time with the entire loving universe. And you will never move at all in this radiant display of your very own Self, for you will long ago have disappeared into the darkness of your noble night."
From "One Taste"
I'm turning 41 in March. We're still youngn's then. Will get a picture up this weekend. May make it an avatar if I can.
You're right. You are. So am I. What is "I" anyway but the propped up ego we are trying to keep hold of. One night before I found out about Buddhism, I was really thinking about what humans really are. When you think about it, "we" don't exist. We are just a collection of cells, which are really just a different configuration of atoms. So at the atomic level, "we" don't exist. The Buddha was way ahead of his time.
Every breath is one breath less...!
And now you know when I say that you are much prettier than I am that it's true.
Today is a bit rough as I had my 3rd steroid injection into the epidural space today. A bit uncomfortable. If my back settles down some, I will meditate later. I should have gotten up and done it before my 9 am appointment, but I normally don't get up until 9 am on my days off. I'm a night owl. It will have to be in a chair though. They don't want my legs getting in any funky positions. I'm not allowed to drive today either. I'm stuck home for the day.
What kind of soft tissue disease do you have? If you don't feel like posting it, pm me. As you know, I'm an RN by trade so I might know what it is. Just curious.
From that moment, daily practice opened like a water-lily in the sun and has spread to cover more and more of the surface of the pond of my mind.
It took me a long while to understand that my terror of death was actually a fear to live. I have held the hand of many a dying person, including some whom I still love more than I can say. Death really isn't such a big deal.
As children, we were urged, by the aumonier, to pray for a "good death". Today, I think that a good death is one where I can be wide awake, looking time, age and decay in the eye and say, "You may be killing me but I see you and know you for the imposters youy are!"
Sitting in a chair is fine. They just don't want excessive movement of the lower extremities. Laying down to meditate might cause me to slumber, not awaken. It's uncomfortable to have this procedure done and it takes one for a loop. I'll probably meditate after I get off line. I've taken a nap and doing okay. Thanks for your concern.
And in the meantime, I could not answer some things about the nature of this creator I had belived in. Was it a single source known by many names and faces, or was it in fact many different gods and goddesses, with one in particular that might have created me? How could I be *certain* I was not imagining a response to my prayers, just from wanting one so badly?
I couldn't be certain. And I haven't been certain about anything since. I'm looking into Buddhism because at this point in my life, I am truly a seeker--settled on nothing, convinced of nothing, filled with questions and wonderings and a desire to know. Meditation and looking at Dharma teachings has brought me some peace of mind, so I am definitely open to learning more.
Oh! Just as a side note to all of you who are in your early 40s and think you might be old: you can't possibly be old! You're only two years or so shy of my parents, and everyone says they're quite young! So don't worry.
You bring up some interesting points. I used to believe in heaven and hell, but then they aren't really all that believable when you seriously think about them. Then it hit me that since I know longer believed in an afterlife, death was permanent. I would never see my deceased family and friends again. I put it on a shelf for a while and just let it sit inside. It was really a bit more than I was ready for at the time. I was exploring so many different ideas at that time. What I found interesting is how many of them coorelated to Buddhist thought.
Since I think the most honest intellectual approach is agnosticism, how can one deal with rebirth? I am currently reading Lama Surya Das's "Awakening the Buddha Within". I am just going to quote this verbatim as his explanation of rebirth is the most intellectually honest answer to this question in Buddhism I've read so far.
Different Kinds of Rebirth
There are actually four different ways of interpreting rebirth:
1. Life to life, in sequential and linear time (For example, I die and I am reborn.)
2. Intentional rebirth, in linear time (Masters and reincarnate lamas like the Dalai Lama vow intentionally to keep coming back to fulfill their mission to liberate all beings til the end of samsara or suffering).
3. Spiritual rebirth (Total renewal and personal transformation in this very life.)
4. Moment -to-moment rebirth, in the timeless present-the eternal now (This moment, impulse, or thought arises and passes away)
("Awakening The Buddha Within" by Lama Surya Das, Broadway Books 1997 New York, NY)
Some say that you can prove rebirth by talking to the people who are reborn. Some remember past lives, some don't. I'm not exactly what the tests to see if someone is reborn or not are, so I can't personally verify them. So I have to use my own personal experience along with my knowledge to figure out what makes the most rational sense to me.
That seems to be where the bottom line is though. What makes the most sense to you. A few weeks back, I was having a really difficult time with the agnostic approach to Buddhism. I really don't want to make less of my fellow sangha members faith. I can't count how many times someone has recommended "Buddhism Without Beliefs" to me and told me that I was still welcome at the temple. Whatever you decide on these issues are your choice. You have to live with them and use them wisely. Most of one's Buddhist practice is done in everyday living.
Thank you for your concern. I was able to meditate for 15 minutes before I had to stop. Was very uncomfortable but still tried. Not my normal 30 minutes, but today was an exception. I'll be back to myself tomorrow.
Death is a natural part of life!
"Great Doubt - Great Awakening
Small Doubt - Small Awakening
No Doubt - No Awakening."
Good to see you here Pandora.
Prettiness is relative and I happen to think you're absolutely adorable. I was just thinking, before I read your post, that if I woke up in ICU and saw your sweet face above me I'd be delighted. I find your eyes especially kind and full of compassion.
I hope you're doing well after that last shot. In a strange way it's harder for us, the onlookers, to deal with your pain. Our imaginations run wild with conjecture. I can't stand the thought of you being in pain. But I have much less trouble with my own. I guess that's why the most effective form of torture is the use of loved ones. (Horrible thought. Sorry.)
I don't have any problem talking about my injury. I'm an open book and will gladly talk of my experiences in case it could help another. It's a lower left back injury that I got a few years ago working in our local hospital as a dietary aide, a fancy term for kitchen worker. I was passing out the meal trays to the patients. I was trying to maneuver the meal truck down the hall and got jerked by it as I tried to stop it's forward momentum. It was about to hit a patient in a wheelchair. The wheels were too small and made the contraption very difficult to steer and control. I went into immediate spasm, couldn't walk, couldn't move.
Long story short, my condition has steadily worsened and I have nerve damage in my back and down my left leg into the big toe. Can't drive, can't work, can't sit or stand for longer than 15-30 mins., can walk, but only for about 20 mins., very slowly, etc. Have to lie on my side with two pillows between the knees throughout the day. I take a lot of meds., 1200mg Gabapentin (Neurontin), 6mg Dilaudid, 3,000mg Acetominophen every day, 10-20mg Cyclobenzaprine (Flexeril) during spasm etc. What I think happened, over the course of being forced back to work too early during the acute stage of the injury, was a tearing in the soft tissue, probably between the left hip and scapula, or in the SI joint, or somewhere in there. Nobody has been able to diagnose anything definitive. Been to every conceivable health care practitioner. No help.
It has heightened an already bad panic disorder which is good because it has forced me to deal with it. I have learned so much and grown so much as a result of this that I wouldn't change it for the world. It really forced me to look at life, death and dying in new ways and through new filters. There are times when I'm so exhausted from the constant pain that death is more than welcome. Not in a self pitying way, just in a relief way. I don't cry about it anymore and I'm grateful for it. I'm forced to practice mindfulness every waking moment. It's a tough and unrelenting teacher. Dealing with the government for financial assistance is truly the worst part. :banghead: :rant:
Stay strong and always know I'm sending you love.
Brigid.
Glad you were able to meditate for a little while.
Zenmonk--
There is no need to fear death if you know exactly what actually dies and what does not die but lives on eternally (you are with that person now but don't know it yet). As long as we attach to the flesh, we can't see what of us does not die—so we get freaked out! This explains why Bhagavan Buddha was so insistent that we give up clinging to the person of flesh. The person of flesh is dead to the life of spirit so when we cling to that person we feel the horror of death. Bhagavan Buddha brought us the light that we might spiritually see and have eternal life. When you receive his light you will have what we call COMPLETE VIEW (samyag-drishti).
How did Bhagavan Buddha approach his death?
When a blessed one is dying and his consciousness departs, he is peaceful and unaware of this death; he passes away fearlessly as if he were dreaming. - Maharatnakuta Sutra
Things are not as bad as you believe they are.