Seems like everyone who studies ZEN has their own idea of what zen is! Are any right or wrong.

zenmyste

It seems like all Zen masters, teachers, students all have there own ideas of what zen actually is and teaches.
some just literally say Zen is (((NOW)))

Some say Zen is just ZAZEN...

Some say there is no such thing as zen, zen is just a name given for (nothing) 'no mind is buddha mind' to forget opinions is zen to forget everything is zen.

some say meditation is zen.

And here is a video of Zen master brad Warner saying Zazen ISNT Meditation...

i would love to know your thoughts on what you think ZEN is and what you think Zazen is.

Cheers!!! (heres the video)

zen_world

I think all of the things you mentioned are Zen...Just different levels of expression...

genkaku

My sense is that, when talking about Zen, there is some assumption that experience can be shared, that if we talk long enough and hard enough, experience can be categorized, boxed and nailed down and everyone can sit holding hands in a cozy, socially-acceptable agreement. The fact that such a thing is not possible is one of the fears that is overcome in Zen practice ... but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it.

Intellectually, the word "zazen" is said to be a corruption of the word "dhyana," which is sometimes translated as "seated meditation." Zen practice lays some emphasis on actual-factual, experience-based zazen. Naturally, there are a million tendrils that emanate from the intellectual appreciation of Zen. They fill up bookstores and libraries. People co-opt the tendril teachings for all sorts of intellectual and emotional uses.

But intellect and emotion, like all belief and hope, rely on the past and future for meaning and impact. It's not bad or naughty. It's just the way intellect and emotion operate and the result is dissatisfaction or uncertainty because although we may rely on past and future for social interaction, still we all live inescapably in the present... a present so present that by the time the lips say "present," it has already become the past; by the time we say "Zen," it has become an illusion.

Zen practice sort of brings us up to speed on what was never missing, what cannot be escaped, what cannot be named. In one sense, since we cannot be anywhere other than the present, it is ludicrous to take on a teaching that pines for the present. But in another sense, we long to be free of a life that is lived in the past and future -- a solely intellectual and emotional life whose dissatisfactions and uncertainties nag. As Brad suggests, the moment we take on a goal, we have merely consigned ourselves (again) to a life lived in what cannot be grasped -- the past and future. Still, we begin with goals: Enlightenment, perhaps, or compassion or joyful living or an escape from sorrow.

Anyway, my take is that there is an intellectual and emotional understanding of Zen and then there is the willingness to sit down, shut up and see what actually happens -- the practice of zazen, the practice of life. In life, the past, the present and the future are not separable. Praise and blame cannot enter. Improvements are out of the question. Life is a package deal. But it's not something to rely on. If you want to practice, practice. If you don't, don't.

Your life, your experience.

Might as well enjoy yourself.

What is Zen?

You tell me.

Jeffrey

If I recall correctly dhyana is actually the sanskrit for jhana which is referred to in the Pali canon as a meditative absorption having four levels which are described in said canon.

genkaku

@Jeffrey -- I stand corrected. "Zen" is a corruption of "dhyana."

zenff

What is Zen?
That’s a good question.

When you try to understand Zen as a set of concepts and beliefs, you’ll get a list of concepts and ideas which will be (partly) inconsistent or which at least may seem quite incoherent.
You’ll find traces of just about any Buddhist tradition; of Daoism; and in some cases of Christian mysticism; of Jungian psychology; or any other modern Western idea people want to blend in.

When you try to walk the path of zen-practice you may want to narrow things down.
Stick to some simple concepts and ignore the rest.
Trust your intuition.

Meditate.
When teachers say meditation does not get you enlightenment, they say that to people who are meditation-junkies and who are stuck there. They usually say it after they’ve been such junkies for themselves for a very long time.
Before you get stuck at this point, you can meditate all you like.

The usual way to go is, you learn, you read some books, you get some understanding and then you apply your knowledge.
Not so in Zen.
You practice, you realize, you talk about it, but you never understand; you never know.

In the Lankavatara Sutra I believe the phrase is “a revolution on the deepest level of consciousness”. That’s what it takes.
Something quite distinct from extensive study and profound intellectual understanding.

Jeffrey

nice post.

seeker242

They are all right, and all wrong, at the same time. People have different expressions of it because it is, itself, inexpressible with words and language. Words and language are "fabrications" and the essence of Zen is before all that. The essence of Zen is what is there before your mind starts making "zen" and "not zen", correct or incorrect, right or wrong, good or bad,. Zen is mind, before it starts "making stuff". However, in order to talk about it, you have to "make stuff" just to have something to talk about. As the teachers say "A Dharma talk is an intentional mistake". So you could say that all of them are right, but all wrong, at the same time.

zenff

@seeker242
I think you just made a nice (intentional) mistake!

Cloud

Zen = N8FP

Dakini

I have no idea what Zen is. I hope to learn here.

riverflow

When we’re deluded there’s a world to escape. When we’re aware, there’s nothing to escape. ~ Bodhidharma, “Wake-Up Sermon”

There's no place else to go. BUT we keep deluding ourselves into thinking there is. This is, from my own limited understanding, the Ch'an/Zen angle on dukkha. *This* is all there is, but we have a hard time *seeing* that. Or, as Dogen liked to say, "there is nothing extra." Zen is the existential realisation of that. But I've already said too much!

Daozen

Zen just is.

Ch-an_noob

Commit no evil
Do all that is good
purify your mind
that is the teaching of all buddhas