Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
renouncing my current life
zen_world
Veteran
Hey everyone,
Okay so I am making some big changes in my life and need your support and advice.
I lived a very career driven life as an atheist/materialist for very long time.
I graduated from 3 universities and currently have a very successful career making six figure salary with fat bonus and many other benefits in a very comfy office environment at one of the top banks in toronto.
For about two years ago, I thought this is it. I decided to settle down and I was proud with what I achieved. I bought a condo in downtown, brand new furnitures, and a very nice brand new sports car.
Everything was going fine. I used to go out, date with different girls, party a lot, enjoy toronto strip clubs and night clubs etc.
Everything has changed when I had my first out of body experience. It was quite eye opening for an atheist. My first OBE followed by many others and I got quite good at it. Later on I realize I have even more psyhic abilities. Then I seek for refuge to protect myself. I find it in Buddhism. I was always a very curious man and look for answers in science. My mystical esperiences as well as the similiarities between science and buddhism, and my complete comfort in buddhist ethics put me into buddhism.
I became a buddhist on march 2011. So I am still new but something tells me that I had karmic connection to tibetan buddhism in my past lives. Anyhow, after becoming a buddhist I renounced a lot of things.
Become vegeterian,stop drinking alcohol, no parties, no sex. I renounced dating, even watching pornogprahy. I start helping out people around me etc.
Now I am in the process of quiting my job. I sold my sports car and almost half of my furnitures-half price. I am going back to my homeland, Turkey.
My parents are muslim and they are having very hard time understanding why I quit my life here. I can't tell them I am a buddhist because it would hurt them a lot. My sister knows but she is almost hysterical because she thinks I am destroying everything I built with hard work for nothing.
I try to convince her by bringing the reality of death as a topic but it wasn't a good idea. They do not contemplate on death and talking about death put her in a very depressed mode. I want my family to understand that I am content by being with myself and don't need to depend on a material life. But for now, they don't see it that way. They think inner peace is just a myth and philosophical bullsh.t...
Now, there are two reasons that I make all these changes one is to destroy my attchments to this comfortable materialistic life and second is to help people in turkey spiritually. I may be way over my head and maybe delusional. But I know lots of people who are atheists there. And they are lost. I want to show them there is something more to their existence. I am not a lama or phd buddhist so I don't think I can call myself a teacher but at least I can show them some direction. And my intention is not to covert people into buddhism. Religion doesn't matter but spirituality does matter. And I have no intention to introduce them mystical powers that they can attain and show off my ego. Right now, trust me, they live a hard life with their worries, doubts, unfulfilled expectations etc and they don't even know. I don't know how I can be help but probably just small things. Just be an example by being a moral person. Even this is such a big goal, eh!
To be successful tho, I should develop a big hearth and wisdom or else everything would fall apart. So far I didn't find happiness in buddhism instead I found contentment. I am content with what it is. By helping others I hope to find hapiness. But all these challenges waiting for me in turkey - no job, no health insurance, less tolerant people, and their judgement against me- I am afraid to lose my peaceful ground.
Oh and also, because I decided to go back, I have to serve in military as well. I already filled out the papers and received confirmation.
So you see, it is a lot of changes waiting for me.
If you were in my position, how would you deal with this?
No specific question but just need your overall opinion.
Thanks
Okay so I am making some big changes in my life and need your support and advice.
I lived a very career driven life as an atheist/materialist for very long time.
I graduated from 3 universities and currently have a very successful career making six figure salary with fat bonus and many other benefits in a very comfy office environment at one of the top banks in toronto.
For about two years ago, I thought this is it. I decided to settle down and I was proud with what I achieved. I bought a condo in downtown, brand new furnitures, and a very nice brand new sports car.
Everything was going fine. I used to go out, date with different girls, party a lot, enjoy toronto strip clubs and night clubs etc.
Everything has changed when I had my first out of body experience. It was quite eye opening for an atheist. My first OBE followed by many others and I got quite good at it. Later on I realize I have even more psyhic abilities. Then I seek for refuge to protect myself. I find it in Buddhism. I was always a very curious man and look for answers in science. My mystical esperiences as well as the similiarities between science and buddhism, and my complete comfort in buddhist ethics put me into buddhism.
I became a buddhist on march 2011. So I am still new but something tells me that I had karmic connection to tibetan buddhism in my past lives. Anyhow, after becoming a buddhist I renounced a lot of things.
Become vegeterian,stop drinking alcohol, no parties, no sex. I renounced dating, even watching pornogprahy. I start helping out people around me etc.
Now I am in the process of quiting my job. I sold my sports car and almost half of my furnitures-half price. I am going back to my homeland, Turkey.
My parents are muslim and they are having very hard time understanding why I quit my life here. I can't tell them I am a buddhist because it would hurt them a lot. My sister knows but she is almost hysterical because she thinks I am destroying everything I built with hard work for nothing.
I try to convince her by bringing the reality of death as a topic but it wasn't a good idea. They do not contemplate on death and talking about death put her in a very depressed mode. I want my family to understand that I am content by being with myself and don't need to depend on a material life. But for now, they don't see it that way. They think inner peace is just a myth and philosophical bullsh.t...
Now, there are two reasons that I make all these changes one is to destroy my attchments to this comfortable materialistic life and second is to help people in turkey spiritually. I may be way over my head and maybe delusional. But I know lots of people who are atheists there. And they are lost. I want to show them there is something more to their existence. I am not a lama or phd buddhist so I don't think I can call myself a teacher but at least I can show them some direction. And my intention is not to covert people into buddhism. Religion doesn't matter but spirituality does matter. And I have no intention to introduce them mystical powers that they can attain and show off my ego. Right now, trust me, they live a hard life with their worries, doubts, unfulfilled expectations etc and they don't even know. I don't know how I can be help but probably just small things. Just be an example by being a moral person. Even this is such a big goal, eh!
To be successful tho, I should develop a big hearth and wisdom or else everything would fall apart. So far I didn't find happiness in buddhism instead I found contentment. I am content with what it is. By helping others I hope to find hapiness. But all these challenges waiting for me in turkey - no job, no health insurance, less tolerant people, and their judgement against me- I am afraid to lose my peaceful ground.
Oh and also, because I decided to go back, I have to serve in military as well. I already filled out the papers and received confirmation.
So you see, it is a lot of changes waiting for me.
If you were in my position, how would you deal with this?
No specific question but just need your overall opinion.
Thanks
0
Comments
If I were you I would turn back the clock and try to make changes in your life very gradually.
Good luck
It (the peaceful ground) is not coming or going. Just take root in it, not in some country.
Secondly get your psychic abilities tested by a skeptic. See what remains of it.
I know you don’t want to hear this; but there’s a very good chance there are none.
with metta
As a matter of trying not to get too holy by next Thursday, you might seek out a Buddhist center in Toronto and learn to practice. Practice smooths out the sharp edges of expectation. It allows for contact with people on a similar path. And it corrects some of the excited missteps, at least one of which is relying on others for confirmation of what, after all, is just your choice.
Patience, courage and doubt are useful tools in Buddhism.
Best wishes.
If I don't do it right here right now, then death will eventually do it for me.
Is it better to have a constant fear of dying and loosing of all things I have. Or should I just ignore death! Renounce and surrounder...
While living in Thailand I had conversations with a number of ex-monks who had planned to stay monks for their entire lives...but then dropped out.
Being a Buddhist for just 7 months can happen for a variety of reasons, not all well thought out. As several others have said here, what's the hurry. Live the ordinary lay life of a Buddhist for a while...perhaps a few years. Then see how it fits before quitting a job or quitting college or whatever. Life is long. There's no hurry.
There is not truly any rush to action in timelessness. This hustle and bustle to get back to Turkey might be the same mind-centeredness as the hustle and bustle that fueled the material life that you have come to renounce. But then, I suppose paradoxically, everything has its time and place and lessons will be learned with life as your teacher. You will do as you will.
It is getting the courage to do this that is the real hurdle, I have not found this and the those of us who follow the Buddhist path and prefer to practice while holding down our 9-5 and keep out regular life have not found this courage, be it through lack of confidence, fear of the consequences, not wishing to depart from loved ones or upset them. I really hope I have the chance to find this one day, until then I can only dream about it, and carry on my own path that I have chosen to follow.
Again I wish you my sincere best wishes and metta on whatever path you have chosen to follow.
With Metta
________________
To fear death is to fear life and living a life in fear is hardly a Buddhist way. Will getting rid of things get rid of the fear?
As to "losing all the things" you have, wouldn't it be better to consider whether you actually had them in the first place? There is nothing inherently bad about having a nice car or a comfortable life. But the mind's attachment to such things causes problems. For this reason, Buddhism focuses on clarifying the mind, not getting rid of possessions.
The Christians are sometimes misquoted as saying, "Money is the root of all evil." The correct quote -- and the most appropriate -- is, "The love of money is the root of all evil." To imagine that being penniless and dressed in rags is somehow more clear-headed than being surrounded by fine things is to miss the point altogether.
Slow down. Find a practice. Practice it.
This attitude that we can and want to make a positive difference to people and all sentient beings in the world is an essential motivational factor for a person who wishes to do what zen_world wants, so what is wrong with having this notion ?
I am not on a mission...I wish I were...That would give me some purpose.
I realize the emptiness of having objectives. Nothing really matters.
Mine is just a surrounder - we all have to do one day or the other. Eventually death will do it. I just do it earlier so I can deal with the hard truth!
Now why would I worry about a big car, big house. What is the point...Even being holly doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter.
Like I said, I have no intention to make big changes in other people's lives. No one can do that!
My parents are sick, I can take them to hospital and take care of them.
My sister is in depression with the kids and all, I can put a smile on her face.
Many of my friends are nihilistic and not happy with their lives, maybe I can show them an example that material life is not everything.
My neighbor in Turkey is sick, may be I can pick up her groceries
See, there is nothing holy about my intentions...
I believe material possession create some serious attachments. You live comfortably around them. Sometimes we may say to ourselves that 'hey I can give up anytime I want, I am not attached'. But the truth is far from it. How would you know whether you have attachment or not without even giving up your comfort.
I am not saying destroy your life but the more you renounce the less you are attached. There is freedom in this.
With your job, car payments, worries about girl friends etc...I am sorry I see these are nothing but distractions preventing livinge the life the way it is. To be able to surrounder at death peacefully, you should be good at renounciation while you are alive.
You might be right. I might be making a mistake. Time will tell.
But does it even matter. Why attach to security and safety. Can anyone guarantee it?
With Metta
Why don't your skeptics first explain how normal everyday life consciousness arise first before even testing higher level of consciouss states and its powers...
It's not a bad thing to have a successful career that earns you good money. The key is in what you choose to do with that money and with your leisure time. By your own admission, you weren't making good choices before. So...try it again, keep the high-paying job, live frugally and modestly, and dedicate the proceeds from that blessing of a job to helping others. this is the Buddhist way.
..one way, at least. Good luck, best wishes.
P.S. I suspect it was something that happened via Zenworld's psychic experiences that helped push him in the direction he's going, not just Buddhism.
And Zenworld, if you set up a charitable foundation, you get a break on your income tax.
If we live like a beggar, we can only offer little to those who have not yet spiritually realized. If we are like a king, then we can ease the suffering of many by being generous with the fruits this comes with.
Unless you plan on ordaining, laity is laity.
@Dakini, I think that is a more wise decision.
That's one of my (newly discovered) supernatural powers.
I don't think I am following the extreme path tho. I am still in the middle way. I am not going to a cave and renounce all world. Instead, I am just giving up luxury comfort and chosing to have a more meaningful life with more freedom thru giving up my attachments.
But your point is well taken!
It is wisdom, not foolishness, to follow the word of the higher mind.
To Buddhists one would explain it so...
but Turkey has not many Buddhists.
Turkey has family...
To family one must explain that your success in a foreign land did not nourish your heart... and so your heart cried out..
for home, for family, for friends and relatives and neighbors...
for food and traditions and music and life and love and understanding and companionship and camaraderie that the West has not...
for the language of the heart one learned at one's mother's knee, and the understanding of those who speak that language...
for the land of one's birth and the lessons, issues, history, sorrows, and joys that go with that land.
The West teaches those in the West to deny and to silence such cries of the heart,and so they do not hear the cries of the heart until the cries of the heart become the loud screams of the heart, the illnesses of the heart...
the high blood pressure, the broken relationships, the heart attacks, the heart failure...
so common in the West...
How far out of body did you get?
The farthest out, after all, is death.
These things are truths that family will understand...
that success which does not also nourish the heart is not truly success at all, and that if the heart is not nourished, not sufficiently cared for, health, life, and strength are fleeting.
Turkey has many Muslims...
to them you must explain that you are not sure quite why or how or what you are exactly to do to help, but that you looked into the night sky in the middle of a successful life in a foreign land and knew in your heart that you must return somehow to help your brothers and sisters in the land of your birth. It is a difficult thing to explain, and perhaps no one would understand, but they say that the words of Allah are written on the hearts of men, and this was indeed written on your heart.
This they will respect and understand.
Turkey has many Christians...
to them you must explain that you were successful in the West, but that your soul did not find a home in the West, as your soul had remained behind with family, friends, and neighbors in Turkey...
and you could not continue to live in a soulless West, without your soul...
and so have returned to the land of your birth to find your soul.
This they will respect and understand.
Turkey has many atheists who are very astute business people...
to them it may well look like a bad business decision to turn your back on success... are you a fool?
To them you must explain that you were successful in the West, but that one's personal success in the world does not mean very much to him if he is alone in the world of a foreign country and cannot share that success with his family, relatives, friends, and neighbors in the land of his birth. You would much rather use your knowledge and skills to promote the land of your birth in the world, than to use your knowledge and skills elsewhere to profit others who would merely exploit the land of your birth for their own gain.
This they will understand; they will embrace you as a son.
Speak to each in turn, using such terms familiar to them that they each can understand, and all will understand and not be frightened to think that you have come home something truly strange and foreign to them that they cannot understand.
As for you? Who will speak to your heart and help you understand in terms you can understand?
Come listen to Steve Jobs, co-founder of Apple and one of the most successful business people on the entire planet as he speaks of life to the graduating class at Stanford:
You will be just fine.
Address others gently in their own language, and follow your own Dharma.
with metta
Aura
Spoken very eloquently.
People are talking as if zen_worlds life is somehow going to be over if they follow their heart and give up all their possessions. This is complete rubbish, how many people in the world quit their job and take one two or more years out to try something else, the answer is a lot. If zen_world gives up all possessions and does what they want and then one two years down the line etc etc decides its not for them, then guess what zen_world can go back to the old life. I am sure with three degree's zen_world will not find it hard to get another job.
@zen_world if your courageous enough to follow your heart and see where it takes you, then you just might be lucky enough to find true lasting happiness outside the selfish materialistic world that the rest of us live in. The point is you, I or anyone else will never know unless we walk that path for ourself.
Oh well. It's probably too late now. Let us know how you do.
One particular regret you may have is serving in the military, which would lead to a violation of the precept against killing. That's something to really think on long and hard.
Also, in terms of helping people, you can help the people around you right here and now.
I'm not saying "Don't go back to Turkey," but I am saying "You should allow yourself to grow in the Buddhadharma more before you start making big changes that you might regret later."
The good thing about Buddhism is that you can GROW into it-- unlike most theistic religions which require you hold the proper ideology on things that you aren't even aware of all at once, in Buddhism you can take things one step at a time-- and you need to, because it can be overwhelming to newcomers (I've only been practicing for a year now myself).
____________
Possessions can't create anything. Only you or I can do that.
Best wishes in whatever choices you choose to make.
Best wishes to you on this path of self discovery.
I have to work, but I own very little, and I like it that way (my co-workers think I'm crazy LOL)
Wow...amazing...I am very touched by what you wrote...
Something that I will keep it and read it over and over when I feel restless.
You beautifuly summarized it. Thank you for opening your hearth to me.
Watch the mind and follow the hearth. There is no bigger truth than this.
Thank you friend!
But if this is what you truly want to do, and it's for the right reasons, then I say go for it!
I wish I can give you a straight honest answer. The truth is I don't know how much of a role my ego plays in this.
What about tolle's ego. Doesn't he has a ego when he makes such claims?
Now you make me thinking.
Is it even possible to make decisions without ego?
Is it even possible to function in this world without ego?
To throw all your money away just to live in a delusional world where you meditate all day, astral project, and pretend you're building compassion for all beings, is just not really practical. It is a hermit life style, that more than anything really isn't helping anyone except yourself. Someone working at a bank or even someone working at Subway is helping many more beings than say a beginner monk or a hermit who is enlightened, but has no money.
I think you took up Buddhism, and all this new age stuff way too seriously. You're not looking at it in a balanced approach. We all need money. If you know how to make money, that's a wonderful talent that you should embrace and help many people by leading through example, and then helping others become as successful as you. Go back to your life with money and dating, and materialistic objects and use Buddhism there as a psychological tool.
"Buddhism" is not "of the book" and therefore very foreign to Islam, and so you will need to be mindful in addressing your parents in accordance with their own dear Islamic words and ways...
and so Allah the Great and Merciful has written on your heart and brought you home.
The teachings of the Buddha are not so far from the teachings of the Prophet,
and the Islamic name of God, Allah the Great and Merciful, is a twice repetition of exactly the specific Buddhist qigong healing sound "ah..."
used in meditation for the specific purpose of resonating and opening the energy of (care to guess which organ?)
... the heart!
with metta
Aura
I think Zenworld's idea wasn't to just sit and meditate or enjoy his psychic abilities. He said he wants to spread the message of Buddhism to those who have no religion or creed. This is a noble goal, but I would think that more study of Buddhism would be necessary before going forth to teach. What if you capture the interest of some of those businessmen you mentioned, and they start asking questions, and you don't have the answer to the questions? Taking time to mature in your knowledge of the Dharma isn't a bad idea...
Whatever you choose, please stay in touch with us.