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What's the point of practicing buddhism..... (besides enlightenment)
I'm probably not gonna get enlightened in this life time.
Then what's the point of buddhist practice?
I heard that buddhist practice itself should provide joy, but I don't really find much joy in it.
I don't feel like much has changed since I started the practice.. except I started to care less about certain things but I'm not sure if that's due to my practice.
So, if you're (probably) not gonna get enlightened... why do you practice buddhism?
Then what's the point of buddhist practice?
I heard that buddhist practice itself should provide joy, but I don't really find much joy in it.
I don't feel like much has changed since I started the practice.. except I started to care less about certain things but I'm not sure if that's due to my practice.
So, if you're (probably) not gonna get enlightened... why do you practice buddhism?
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What does your practice consist of, besides meditation?
Just paying attention.
how can you be more present in the present. You are already in the present.
What you are doing is another conditioning of the mind by trying to be in the moment.
Another form of delusion.
One should let go of such thoughts....its hindrance
another pressure in the mind...
what do you achieve by being in the present other than selecting your different kind of choice of reaction.
you are dreaming with the idea that it is awakening
its all empty. Your computer doesn't try to be more in the present, why should you! Your body doesn't aware to this moment, why should you!
As soon as you try to be in the moment, you failed!
its all empty...what is there to achieve by trying to force yourself in the present. If you try to be in the present, you only transforming your dream into another.
If you follow anyone you are only fooling yourself!
How can you talk about freedom if you don't make up your own damn mind and how can you be free if you ask others to show you what is good for you?
All they can show you is their own enlightenment...you have to find your own...
ask freedom, demand freedom, and you will set your own path.
To acheive the best results, continue treatment over several lifetimes.
If suffering persists, please consult your Lama.
Often times though what seems to bring us happiness and remove our suffering in the short term brings pain and suffering in the long run and what brings us long term happiness and removes our suffering often feels like no fun.
If you can, stick with it and you'll eventually be able to see what most everyone who has practiced for a long time will tell you, that the Buddhist path brings about a happier state of mind.
Zazen is goalless-- there is nothing to attain by sitting. There is nothing to attain by eating or sleeping either. Zazen is the expression of total goallessness, and the total expression of completeness and wholeness. Where there is no separation there is no goal. The only obstacle is we think there is some thing that we need to attain-- fame, clothes, a new car, money, enlightenment, heaven-- its all the same.
It isn't that there is no self, its just that the nature of the self is not what we commonly take it to be. It isn't that there is no enlightenment, its just that the nature of enlightenent is not what we commonly take it to be. These are really just two ways of saying the same thing.
For me, practice is learning total trust. Everything is complete as it is. And yet, this is not to be confused with quietism (which is really a kind of passive nihilism)-- there are things to be "done" but without this separation. So suffering is complete as it is. Compassion is complete as it is. Its all about learning to go from "ought" (separation and fragmentation) to "is" (seamlessness and wholeness). We love our "oughts" (myself most certainly included!) and that is the thing I am learning to let go of.
At best, I can say I practice not in order to attain enlightenment but to let go of of any notion of "attaining" and to let go of any notion of "enlightenment." In zazen I observe the "oughts" that pass like clouds and don't chase them away, nor cling to them. Occassionally the weather clears up a bit, and I can get a glimpse of the blue sky of "is."
There are ways of explaining things to the uninitiated with kindness and compassion, and then there's preaching. A lot of what's here is preaching.
the reality doesn't care if you are happy or not...only your twisted thoughts look for happiness...how can buddhism bring happiness then?
happiness, sorrow, suffering, joy etc etc they are all thoughts...
just be a good person, you dont need religion for that...be good person cultivate love...one cannot do anything wrong if he is doing it out of compassion, out of love. thats it...there is nothing else...no enligtehment, no permanent happiness, no nirvana...
present is present...lets not fill it with nonsensical concepts like "be in the moment"
Several weeks ago, I was going to go out late at night to pick up a couple grocery items and before I got out of the parking lot, I figured out I had a flat. Now, my normal way of reacting would've been a string of expletives and body tension and general unpleasantness-- all because I was resisting what was the case right then and there.
Instead, after discovering the flat, I parked my truck and thought to myself, "I'll do what I need to do tomorrow morning." I went back to my apartment and that was that.
I won't go into all the details of what happened the next day-- changing the tire was not as simple as I expected. There were additional problems that made it somewhat more complicated (and cost me a little extra money too). I ended up walking around town a good bit back and forth and finally was able to get the truck to a shop. This took up quite a few hours. But in the end, I did get it all fixed.
Knowing the way I have been in the past in similar situations, I would've gotten quite upset about all this, grumbling and bitching all the while, and pretty much just making myself miserable. But instead I handled all this in a very calm way. It was very simple. I there was a problem. I knew the solution, and acted. When a new problem would arise, I again knew what to do and did it-- without resisting it all in my mind.
That afternoon, when I got back home and everything fixed, I reflected on this and had to laugh at myself-- because of how I normally would've reacted to such a situation. What was so funny is that it wouldn't matter how I reacted to the situation-- regardless, I would've still had a flat and all the other problems that stemmed from that! It was all still going to happen anyway. But I could've resisted and made myself miserable, or I could just do what needed to be done without separating myself from the situation.
It turned out that it was actually a very good day after all. :-)
@zen_world Referring to people as fools or putting down what's been said as 'nonsense' is not very persuasive and is, IMO, bad form. Of course, from your POV, it must be all empty -- apparently one of the buddhist/zen conveniences when you have an ax to grind and don't give a d*mn about others' feelings.
PS. Hope you'll feel better soon!
♥ .... I practice Mahayana Buddhism and the goal of saving all senstient beings. This alone is very satisfying, in that helping people, makes you feel happy (I believe its a psychological fact.)
♥.... The realisation that we are all interconnected, makes me want to improve upon my own 'happiness' (and if you want something enough...it will happen) for the sake of those around me, because if I'm miserable, those around me will be too.
♥...Meditation ...can be brought forth into the day, so whenever you have a negative thought, you can let it flow out of your mind, this brings greater clarity.
♥....I dont even think of enlightenment, I want to spend as many lifetimes as I can helping people .... because truly what else matters .... and if I accidentally become Enlightend on the way, I will still devote everything to helping those whom are suffering in Samsara x
Kindly,
Claudia x
To feel good about myself. Hypocrisy aside, I do my own buddhist practice (what I call 'the ten-seconds-compassion') when random people on the street need a small cheer-up thing.
What do you do - I'm intrigued ...
Let's say I help those peasants with whom I travel daily get down their heavily stuffed bags out of the bus. Or, when they can't find the handle to open the door's bus, I show them the righteous way
I heard that buddhist practice itself should provide joy, but I don't really find much joy in it.
@ pain:
I can truly only speak for myself here but, I think the reason any of us practice isn't necessarily to find that "ultimate goal" of enlightenment. Its that something about Buddhism speaks to us and hits us in a way that just works.
For me personally, the practice itself does provide joy, For example:
Taking twenty minutes out to sit on my cushion and think of absolutely nothing, can at times be the most exhilarating part of my day. Also, the point of My practicing isn't to attain a goal so much as it is to free myself from my own suffering (which, okay, may be a "goal" of sorts) But how I do this is, when I feel strongly about something, a thought, emotion, material object etc., I know I'm suffering because its not making me any happier by being attached to it. So, I address it,acknowledge it,don't ignore it and pretend its not there, but I don't dwell on it either. I try to think about why I feel so strongly and I try to detach myself from those things in the future. More often than not, by doing this I become a little happier! Its not because I've become complacent. Its because I've trained myself to think about the way I think and act. If I act in this way toward things I'm attached to, I have freed myself from that type of suffering. This is one way I find joy in practicing.
Another is by bringing other beings happiness. If I can bring happiness to one being a day by doing good things for them it in turn brings me happiness. This is what I think is meant as loving kindness. The best way for me to describe it is like a fisherman's net. Each being in this world is one of those knots in the net. If I shake one of those knots, the rest of that net will shake as well and it can be felt in the one knot I shook. This is how I think of Karma. EVERYTHING I do, big or small, positive or negative, effects all beings around me and it WILL come back in the same way. So I try to "shake my knot" by doing positive things to breed good Karma. This also brings me joy.
I think the point of buddhism is to free yourself and others from suffering and to breed positivity or Good Karma for yourself and all beings. I hope by sharing the above that maybe it will inspire you to keep practicing.
Namaste _/\_
"Faith, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for faith? 'Suffering' should be the reply.
but if buddhism is making you worse I would ease up and try to link in with a sense of freshness and wonder in life.
one of my teacher's students said that he struggled all sessions in meditaion and then at the end he just relaxed and felt relief that the session was over. My teacher said the only time he was meditating was right then! At the end!
You are stuck and its times like these when a teacher can help.
Dharma practice consists of hearing (teachings), contemplating (comparing to your life experience), and meditation.
there will be situations that arise and we will not have control over them but we will be able to control the way we react - it is our reaction that determines our suffering
for me, buddhist practice helps me be aware of how i am reacting to what is going on around me