Buddhism and Satanism

laughing_statue

Hey everyone! I see Buddhism and Satanism (mainly Laveyan Satanism) as being very similar. Both have these things in common: they are atheistic, have an image of someone as a real person or archetype that is very important but not worshiped, both have helpful proverbs to live by, both help one to try to become a better person and to deal with life, etc. Of course, Buddhism also has meditation and yoga. Satanism has magick on the other hand. And while the philosophies overall aren't exact, I can't help but agree with both of them.

Does anyone have an opinion on Satanism? How do you think it compares with Buddhism?

And if you have any experience or knowledge of Satanism, please let me know your thoughts as well.

Cloud

Comparing superficial features is like that. We could say that Bob and Mike both have skin and teeth and so are very similar, and while that's true it's not a fair representation in the least. The same with Buddhism and Satanism; they don't match at all. In Buddhism there is the practice of ahimsa or non-violence, the cultivation of compassion for all beings and wisdom to end suffering. Satanism is similar to its counterparts, which are Christian-based religions, not Buddhism.

laughing_statue

Do you have any specific characteristics to compare to back up that statement? Please. I'm interested in your specific take on the matter.

Jeffrey

Just commenting in that I have virtually no knowledge of Satanism.. It seems kinda creepy in a sense because it is a reaction to Christianity or at least it seems. I mean what if there were to be a religion 'Maraism' (mara is the buddhist devil who perverts your peace into pride).

laughing_statue

Christianity is where it got its name, but it's about not being restricted and indulgence (not to be confused with uncontrolled compulsion). And it is big on being kind to people that deserve it (aka - people that are mean to you do not deserve it). Which... if someone trips me and calls me names, I would rather not be nice to them.

laughing_statue

And I will admit that Satanists tend to be overly dramatic in some ways. But I wouldn't take them as being threatening in any way.

riverflow

And it is big on being kind to people that deserve it (aka - people that are mean to you do not deserve it). Which... if someone trips me and calls me names, I would rather not be nice to them.

Well, there's one crucial difference between Buddhism and Satanism.

"Hatred never ends through hatred.
By non-hate alone does it end.
This is an ancient truth."
~ Dhammapada, ch. 1

laughing_statue

That full passage does not mean that one should bake that person a cake and give them flowers. It means not to dwell on hatred. Not to let hatred consume you and never end. But more to let it go. Satanism does not conflict with this.

This is an ancient truth (Dhp3-5)
"He abused me, attacked me,
Defeated me, robbed me!"
For those carrying on like this,
Hatred does not end.

"She abused me, attacked me,
Defeated me, robbed me!"
For those not carrying on like this,
Hatred ends.

Hatred never ends through hatred.
By non-hate alone does it end.
This is an ancient truth.

Dhammapada 3-5

Jeffrey

This passage wasn't just an intellectual ideology as far as I know. Some of the monks were actually abused by people and it was practical advice to them. Correct me if I am wrong.

riverflow

LeVey promoted lex talionis as an ethical virtue (not unlike Ayn Rand). That is hardly compatible with metta or karuna (compassion) which are central doctrines to Buddhist practice.

The same goes for the LeVey's emphasis on self-individuality which is precisely what Buddhism sees as the very problem of suffering (the belief that the self is an independently existing entity).

Dakini

laughing_statue, if you want to see more parallels with Satanism, study the history of Tantric Buddhism. One good book to start with is Ben Walker''s "Tantrism". Have fun.

StaticToybox

My views on Satanism (as a once member of the Church of Satan) is that it's a joke, and for all their talk of "sheep" LaVey's followers are the biggest sheep around. LaVey was a old carny huckster who copied a lot from other people, had some interesting insights, wrote some amusing essays, and got a lot of "non-followers" to follow him. Though I doubt he took it all as seriously as most others took it. Somehow I can just picture him sitting back with a smirk on his face at the whole deal.

And to think that Buddhism and LaVey-branded Satanism are comparable is folly.

Jason

Truth be told, I was drawn to Satanism for most of my adolescence. I really dug the individualism and materialistic self-indulgence underlying LeVay's philosophy. However, the older I got, the more problematic I found individualism to be on a deeper, more ethical level (read 'I developed a conscience'). I still have a special place in my heart for Satanism, but I can't commit to it in any serious way. Nowadays, it mostly just reminds me to be a little rebellious once in a while.

laughing_statue

I'll look into that, Dakini. Thanks! And thanks to the rest of you as well! These are very helpful responses. Although, I feel like I've already exhausted these ideas. Statictoybox, your point is the one I've been considering the most. Satanists are extremely dramatic. The rest of your point is uncertain to a degree for me, but I don't really know. Sorry if my response isn't in detail... My roommates are making me laugh right now. And I still feel like regardless, the two religions could potentially balance each other out. But I don't really know... That's why I'm talking to you all about these topics... and why I'm still exploring atheistic religion and practices without settling on anything for the long-term...

laughing_statue

Thanks Jason. I'll keep that in mind.

Jeffrey

Buddhism is about converting drama into dharma. I know, trite, but I just had to quip that in

MindGate

My response to this thread:

Hmm... Naaah.

Kundo

I wouldn't consider Satanism and Buddhism the same thing. My knowledge of Satanism is very limited but according to the Nine Satanic rules, you are the centre of your universe. It's very "I" focused eg - treat others the way they treat you. Whereas the Dhamma teaches us to have compassion for others, Satanism encourages you to keep an us and them mentality and to have no qualms in using others for your own means.

In metta,
Raven

SimpleWitness

@laughing_statue

The Levayan Satanic Church is now run by Peter Gilmore, who is the Late Levey's direct successor. The tenants within the Black Mass and especially the SB are that of selfishness. To be self serving is blessed and cursed are the meek.

Where as, Buddhism is strives for selflessness. The tenants of the Dhamma teach that to be self serving is fruitless and unwholesome on the path towards enlightenment.

The only Practice of Anton Levey's that is similar to Buddhism is the fact that he borrowed from its practices. Many, if not all, magicians within the wider occult world do. This does not mean that they compare.

The Satanic path is the flip side of a Christian fabrication. It is not a Buddhist one.

riverflow

Would a Satanist be able to recite the Metta Sutta?

...Let none deceive another,
Or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill-will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings:
Radiating kindness over the entire world
Spreading upwards to the skies,
And downwards to the depths;
Outwards and unbounded...

~ ~ ~

"You cannot love everyone; it is ridiculous to think you can. If you love everyone and everything you lose your natural powers of selection and wind up being a pretty poor judge of character and quality. If anything is used too freely it loses its true meaning. Therefore, the Satanist believes you should love strongly and completely those who deserve your love, but never turn the other cheek to your enemy!" ~ Anton LeVey

riverflow

"Therefore, the Satanist believes you should love strongly and completely those who deserve your love, but never turn the other cheek to your enemy!" ~ Anton LeVey

Incidentally, why would anyone need to belong to any religion or philosophy to do this? This tends to be default common human conditioning due to the delusion that one is a separate self. So behaving in this way isn't exactly a unique.

SimpleWitness

@riverflow
The name Satan is derived from the word Satanus, which means adversary, enemy. The CoS is recognized as a proactive adversary against religious tenants, commandments, precepts, etc. The CoS is also recognized, even by other occult sects, as a convent of iconoclastic personalities who mean to annoy the religious world into some desired emotional responce towards their "yokeless" ways. In fact, look up the documentary of Boyd Rice "Iconoclast", which, imo, is rad. But, none the less, very troll like behavior. My trust is that this is not laughing_statue's intent within this forum.

vixthenomad

Christianity is where it got its name, but it's about not being restricted and indulgence (not to be confused with uncontrolled compulsion). And it is big on being kind to people that deserve it (aka - people that are mean to you do not deserve it). Which... if someone trips me and calls me names, I would rather not be nice to them.

You mean a bit like a miniature version of the Christian God?

zombiegirl

as others have noted, satanism is very based upon self worship, and therefore, seems completely contrary to buddhism for me. lucifer's sin was to desire to share in the glory of god, and therefore, satanists follow suit by desiring glory themselves. one of the major tenants of buddhism revolves around compassion for others, so i hardly see how this is related to satanism.

StaticToybox

Truth be told, I was drawn to Satanism for most of my adolescence. I really dug the individualism and materialistic self-indulgence underlying LeVay's philosophy. However, the older I got, the more problematic I found individualism to be on a deeper, more ethical level (read 'I developed a conscience').

Same story with me basically (well, late teens - early 20s), though like I said, I was once a card-carrying member of the Church of Satan. I eventually withdrew my membership because the whole lot began to seem rather trite to me, though I still held a fondness for the underlying philosophy. Eventually however I developed ethical (as you said) objections to it.

Dakini

There are aspects of Tantrism that are similar to Satanism. And the belief on the part of tantric adepts that they are above mundane morality (which concept also has a basis in Buddhism) can lead to a glorification of self. Look at the personality cults some lamas have developed around themselves. But hopefully, this doesn't represent "mainstream" Buddhism, whatever that is.

StaticToybox

There are aspects of Tantrism that are similar to Satanism. And the belief on the part of tantric adepts that they are above mundane morality (which concept also has a basis in Buddhism) can lead to a glorification of self. Look at the personality cults some lamas have developed around themselves. But hopefully, this doesn't represent "mainstream" Buddhism, whatever that is.

Hmmm, do you consider the Dalai Lama to have a personality cult?

Dakini

ha--I thought of that, I almost made an exception for him in my post. I don't know--good question. Do you?

StaticToybox

ha--I thought of that, I almost made an exception for him in my post. I don't know--good question. Do you?

I dunno. I think there is to a degree, but I don't really think that's because he's worked it that way.

Dakini

Yes, right. It's not like he deliberately strove to get fame and adoration. But we're straying off-topic...

Dude

I'm not sure, but it would just seem like Satanists would be more fun at parties.

riverflow

Buddhist party = :om: :om: :om: :om: :om: :om: :om:

Satanist party = :rarr: :mullet: :rarr: :rockon: :rarr: :rocker: :rarr:

Jason

I'm not sure, but it would just seem like Satanists would be more fun at parties.

Many of them are surprising pretty big stick-in-the-muds because they're more concerned about how they appear/act (i.e., aesthetics, corresponding to the ninth Satanic Statement) than actually having fun. It's funny in that it kind of defeats the purpose of being a Satanist in the sense of being a non-conformist free-spirit when you're always so concerned about how others perceive you.

StaticToybox

Yes, right. It's not like he deliberately strove to get fame and adoration. But we're straying off-topic...

We are a bit. I was just figuring that the Dalai Lama, for better or worse, probably represents mainstream Buddhism. At least I'm guessing that's who 95% of people think of when they think of Buddhism.

vixthenomad

Zen party = :coffee: :om: :scratch: :whatever:

(hehe)

ittybittybat

Buddhist party = :om: :om: :om: :om: :om: :om: :om:

Satanist party = :rarr: :mullet: :rarr: :rockon: :rarr: :rocker: :rarr:

Haha, so true!

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I agree that they are probably the most opposite religions around...

Jeffrey

newbuddhist party = :screwy: :shake: :banghead: :scratch: :thumbup: :thumbdown: :grr:

vixthenomad

@Jeffrey - which one are you?

Jeffrey

hehe vix... :rant:

hardcorebruinsfan

I'm no authority on Satanism but it seems to be very egotistical in its philosophy, where as Buddhists seek to eliminate or reduce ego. In this regard, I would consider Satanism and Buddhism to be opposites.

Mountains

Where as, Buddhism is strives for selflessness.

Ah, there's a basic misunderstanding on your part. Buddhism (or rather, Buddhists) don't "strive" for anything. That's another word for attachment. That creates dukkha. The object is the opposite, *not* to strive, but to let what is, be. It's not that Buddhists 'strive' for selflessness, it's that Buddhists seek to understand the nature of the idea of no-self that already exists. Striving for selflessness is like me telling you not to picture a pink elephant in your mind. By telling you not to, you've done it, right? So it's self-defeating.

Ficus_religiosa

@riverflow
"Incidentally, why would anyone need to belong to any religion or philosophy to do this? This tends to be default common human conditioning due to the delusion that one is a separate self. So behaving in this way isn't exactly a unique. "

Exactly. LaVey's point is, that that is not what "white-light" religions teach. Instead of teaching something which is contrary to human nature (which will win in the long run anyway cfr. your own statement), one should just adhere to the very human nature in the first place.

Ficus_religiosa

(Human nature being the "evil" in most religions, hence in the US the religion of the human would be "satanism" since abrahamitic religions are predominant. Buddhism does not have a devil like that, thus there is no real name for "satanism" in Buddhism. In fact I cannot think of any other religion or religious group which has personified human nature in a being who is also a real meanie other than the abrahamitic, so there are really no other names to call it).

compassionate_warrior

Isn't Mara the Buddhist equivalent of the Devil?

LostSoul

Hi guys

This thread is relevant to my interests.

I'm going through a troubling time right now, trying to find my best fit - trying to stop being so damn unhappy I guess. I was a "hardcore" lavayan satanist (one of those overly dramatic types ) for a few years, and after experiencing life "on the other side" - with loving, caring people - my faith began to waver.

Then, upon reading Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now", I felt instantly connected to the underlying message, and began reading a lot on buddhism.

These days, its mostly a war between my huge inflated Ego that I've built up from Satanism, and my "no-mind self" (I think as Tolle puts it). Its a very strange war, and I have the tendency to think its not very healthy.

Just my .02, I guess I'm not really adding anything to the topic... other than that, in my humble opinion, satanism and buddhism could not be more different...

Except for the fact they both are basically "athiest" religions. But that is hardly grounds for any similarities. I look at a religion as more of a life-philosophy than anything, and I don't see how god has anything to do with any philosophy worth something.

StaticToybox

Every one of us, regardless of religious/spiritual/philosophical background, has that war LostSoul. And every one of us likewise starts off with a huge, inflated ego.

Ficus_religiosa

Isn't Mara the Buddhist equivalent of the Devil?

If you were to call anything a "devil" then yes. But Mara does not represent human nature as much as Mara represents a certain [i]part of[/i] human nature - as far as I have understood anyway

trailermonkey

FINALLY!!! I have been saying how Buddhism and Satanism are kindred spirits for a long time. Buddhists are more open minded but I still get many eye rolls and head shakes. The 9 statements (lavey) and the 7 tenents (The Satanic Temple) are right in the Buddha's wheelhouse. If you have not checked out the Satanic Temple you should. They are an amazing group...and DO NOT worship Satan...who does not exist. Thanks for the post!!!

lobster

If you have not checked out the Satanic Temple you should.

I never do what I should. So I won't.

federica

Not tenents, tenets.

@lobster said: I never do what I should. So I won't.

Nor me neither.

satcittananda

Sounds like another version of 'crazy wisdom' (sic). Not my thing