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Awareness
Shunryu Suzuki said the frog is a good example for practice. Hit sits hours without moving ... then the fly comes along and in a fraction of second his tonque catchs the fly. Thats all. Is this the sprit of buddhist meditation. Is the frog conscious about himself - no I think not. When Subject and object unite then there is nobody who is aware, right? I wonder if there is a diffrence between Zazen and for example Vipassana. Looking forward to reading your lines :-) Greetings Udo
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Obviously it's not the topic of what kind of consciousness a frog has, like how they are aware as an organism.
Ok reminds me to meditate, where's my lilly pad?
I would be very interested to hear about differences between Vipassana and Zazen of course!
In Theravadin Buddhism, the orientation is toward uprooting greed, hatred, and delusion, so as to first taste Nibbana (Nirvana) and liberation from Samsara, provisionally, in life. Then through ongoing practice to eventually realize Nibbana without remainder, and final liberation from Samsara.
In Zen, provisional nirvana (with remainder) is realized through some very sharp and direct means. But then greed, hatred and delusion reassert. The practice is then not to uproot greed hatred and delusion, but to see Nirvana and Samsara as two sides of one coin, and then through further practice realize the "suchness" of that coin... ongoing.
These are generalizations, and I am also speaking here specifically of Zen Buddhism in the second example, not Mahayana in general.
Both the Theravadin and Zen paths are whole and complete, but at the same time different, which is very cool IMHO...... because we have a choice that is only our own to make. :thumbup:
we have the same example at home.
when we put food on the table, one of my dog just stare at it completely still.
we always joke around that he enters jhanas
The flies. What are they? Thoughts? Desires? Disturbances?
So what is the tongue in the example? And what guidance is the image of a tongue darting out?
Is it a way to communicate with other frogs?
On the other hand there is awareness in meaning of Zen. Not YOU are aware of the BREATH but rather the YOU disappears and there is only Breathing.
Both is Buddhism but opinions about awareness are diffrent, right?
Greetings, Udo
The buddha always asserts to look with mindfulness in one of the six sense realms.
So he points to the ears meet sound and thus contact and sound consciousness arises.
There is no subject, nor object because this process is dependently originated.
This is visappana. The witness or assumed subject is just grasping. Thus when the light of awareness is shines in all six realms there is nothing to find.
In seeing just the seen no seer.
In smelling just the smell no smeller.
In hearing just the taste no taster.
In thinking just he thoughts no thinker.
In feeling just sensation no feeler.
In tasting just taste no taster.
In zazen the same effortless meditation is done. Noises, smells, tastes, thoughts, all arise and fall. They are all disjointed and seperate. Vivid and empty.
Same meditation.
Zazen, or at least the practice of Shikantaza in the Soto tradition of Suzuki, does not involved placing attention on any partuicular object of awareness such as the breath. There is the sitting form, but awareness is choiceless. In other words the "object" of awareness is the totality of your present experience, inwardly, outwardly, at-once. The distnction between an observing subject and an observed object resolves in simple awakeness. The breath is there, along with every other sensation, but no sensation is given more attention than any other. It is whole and at-once. That is sitting Zazen. This is why the attitude of Zazen is "nothing to attain", and "non-doing"
:thumbup:
at one point there is only sensation, or only breathing or whatever.
choice less awareness just means the attention is place on a object we didn't consciously choose, but it's still an object.
present moment, the totality of your present experience, are object as well.
-Thich Nhat Hanh from "The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching
if you are, you may want to re-read what i wrote.
i speak of my views of vipassana and samatha, and how it differ in very important key aspect from the understanding of Udo.
i speak of my understanding of choice less awareness, present moment and totality of the experience.
i do not speak of Shikantaza zen.
be at peace friend
any how. nuff said.
ed. no disrespect.
Both forms of meditiation are non doing. Everything comes and goes.
Vipassana is the same but people mistakening assume that there is an observer and observed duality. The duality only comes together in the process of awarenessing. Thus most people are assuming the watcher or pure subject because of wrong view and doing vipassana wrong.
True vipassana sees that the subject/object duality as an assumption and anatta is seen.
It is a seal for a reason.
Zazen is the pure expression of non duality. It just does what vipassana is supposed to do with correct view.
But this is just my opinion. So take it for what it is.
Please post!
@taiyaki, may I suggest you to become part of a Tibetan sangha?
Do you have any Tibetan temples around you?
I think you really need to see a truly enlightened teacher...even one word from a true teacher will put you in the path...you might be awakened already ~who knows~but put yourself into test for your own benefit.
I did recently...and I learnt some serious stuff about my delusions ... you just need a very good teacher, not a low ceiling one...
A Tibetan Lama would know where you are right away... they are the real deal...
You need more than experience and book knowledge , trust me, you need guidance from another person who went thru all the way...if you take this advice, you won't regret...
Until then study, practice, and keeping ethics.
Thanks for the suggestion. I've been thinking the same thing for a while. I need a solid teacher.
By the way. One question according to my english language skills. Do you think my english is good to understand? I practice every day reading english books ... when I'm good enough I'm going to visit San Francisco and stay there for three weeks, also I want to practice there in the Dojo.
Spiny
brilliant. the frog jumps. PLOP.