God is on Rick Santorum's side

Mountains

I heard an interview with a Republican voter in Arizona today. He said that clearly, God is on Santorum's side and wants him to win.

*facepalm*

We wonder what's wrong with America? I hear things like this and I don't wonder at all...

Tombo

Santorum and I have something in common...we both never got a date in high school.

The difference between us is that I haven't held that fact against women ever since.

person

Did he mean a frothy mix of fecal matter and lube? I thought Republicans were against anal sex?

Tombo

Did he mean a frothy mix of fecal matter and lube? I thought Republicans were against anal sex?

vinlyn

I heard an interview with a Republican voter in Arizona today. He said that clearly, God is on Santorum's side and wants him to win.

*facepalm*

We wonder what's wrong with America? I hear things like this and I don't wonder at all...

I would be okay with statements like that IF, when it doesn't come to pass, the speaker would acknowledge that either he/she had been wrong, or that God was not on Santorum's side, or that God didn't pick sides in politics.

But. it's not really much different than the Latino boxer who crosses himself in the corner of the boxing ring before the fight...or for that matter, Tebow.

IronRabbit

F@#K Rick Santorum - he looks like frigging Howdy Doody - Someone tell me how we got to a place where a U.S. political campaign is based upon religion! Lookout! There are fundamentalist evangelical fanatical constituents out there - and come the revolution they may be carrying guns and asking to see your bible........

person

Rick Santorum is so fiscally conservative that he doesn't believe in sleeves.

Lady_Alison

The higher up these people get, the harder it is to be humble...if they don't already have a God complex, as most do...they have a self righteous attitude of self entitlement twisted into divine Providence.
...where's you crown, kings of nothing, empty hollow shells.

Telly03

I heard an interview with a Republican voter in Arizona today. He said that clearly, God is on Santorum's side and wants him to win.

*facepalm*

We wonder what's wrong with America? I hear things like this and I don't wonder at all...

Yep, those religious people

Seeking_peace

I am one of the first to say that what this country lacks is a level of morality that religion of any kind brings. But a ultra conservative bible thumper is not what we need in the white house. YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE MORALITY and I believe that is exactly what he will try to do.

vinlyn

I agree with you in terms of the issue of why I dislike Santorum...and always have, way back when he was a senator from Pennsylvania.

But that is why, beyond some basics, it is so difficult to have a standard morality. Whose morality?????

Seeking_peace

Most people can agree on basic morality. Not killing, not steeling, adultery. If we all abide by these basic morals, we could make great strides as humans not just as Americans.

vinlyn

Most people can agree on basic morality. Not killing, not steeling, adultery. If we all abide by these basic morals, we could make great strides as humans not just as Americans.

It's not a question on agreeing about basic morality. It's a question about laws equating morality. Take your statement here. Are you saying adultery should be illegal?

And this really is the issue with people like Santorum. Take the abortion issue. I personally believe that under almost all circumstances, abortion is immoral. But I would never believe that should be the law. No one should have to share my moral belief on that issue. That is where government and religion should not mix.

Seeking_peace

You asked "whose morality" so I slated some basic morals that most people can agree on. I was not disagreeing with you. I think Santorum would be an awful choice for the white house. This country needs a higher level of morality but it cannot be done through legislation.

Raven

Trying to use religion to enact law in a secular nation is not right, in my opinion. What about those eho don't believe as he does? Are they then exempt from those laws? Abortions for heathens, miniature American flags for everyone else?!

To be honest, as a non-American, I find there is way too much personal/religious stuff going on in American politics. Church (every church) and state should be as apart as possible.

vinlyn

Trying to use religion to enact law in a secular nation is not right, in my opinion. What about those eho don't believe as he does? Are they then exempt from those laws? Abortions for heathens, miniature American flags for everyone else?!

To be honest, as a non-American, I find there is way too much personal/religious stuff going on in American politics. Church (every church) and state should be as apart as possible.

In all fairness, however, there are many countries where religion is far more mixed into politics/government. Take for example Thailand, where Buddhism and the government are practically conjoined twins.

ThailandTom

You have a real problem on your hands over there, when religion enters politics it always ends with tears. To add, this guy is a moron.

B5C

person

Not only does religion mixing into politics ruin politics, it ruins the religion too.

vinlyn

Not only does religion mixing into politics ruin politics, it ruins the religion too.

I quite agree. Some of the things I have seen in Thailand are clearly not best for both.

B5C

Not only does religion mixing into politics ruin politics, it ruins the religion too.

I somewhat agree, but it does not ruin religion. Religion is what at fault here. Religion poisons everything & it poisons itself.

federica

Did you know that Santorum actually means devil.....?

In some language, I'm sure.

I forget which......

Raven

Did you know that Santorum actually means devil.....?

In some language, I'm sure.

I forget which......

Not in DanSavage-ese, that's for sure!

Raven

Trying to use religion to enact law in a secular nation is not right, in my opinion. What about those eho don't believe as he does? Are they then exempt from those laws? Abortions for heathens, miniature American flags for everyone else?!

To be honest, as a non-American, I find there is way too much personal/religious stuff going on in American politics. Church (every church) and state should be as apart as possible.

In all fairness, however, there are many countries where religion is far more mixed into politics/government. Take for example Thailand, where Buddhism and the government are practically conjoined twins.

That's true - really though, I meant on a personal level. Candidates' personal religious views almost seem MORE important than the platforms, the plans, the actual politics of it all.

It's very different from Canada. I don't know anything about our politicians' religions, and I can't imagine wanting to. It seems very invasive to me. I don't know what religion Stephen Harper is, and I don't care. I'm concerned with how the country is run, not whether or not the Harper family worships anything/anyone in particular.

genkaku

This is one of the best challenges to Rick Santorum's -- and a lot of other putative 'Christian' candidates' -- biblical santimony that I have read.

still_learning

He'll get what he deserves in hell, cuz if he's saying stuff like that and being racist, and whatever other awful things he's doing that we don't know about (and probably don't want to know about), he's not going to heaven.

Raven

This is one of the best challenges to Rick Santorum's -- and a lot of other putative 'Christian' candidates' -- biblical santimony that I have read.

Thanks for posting this! It was really informative and well-written.

sndymorn

Many said the same things about JFK that I am hearing you all intimate about Santorum. JFK was Catholic too.
Nothing is ever as good as you might hope or as bad as you imagine...
He , IMO , is not a viable candidate.
Republicans are having a good bash up and I find it quite amusing.

vinlyn

Many said the same things about JFK that I am hearing you all intimate about Santorum. JFK was Catholic too.
Nothing is ever as good as you might hope or as bad as you imagine...
He , IMO , is not a viable candidate.
Republicans are having a good bash up and I find it quite amusing.

Although I expect Romney will be the nominee, I fear that it is very possible that Santorum could wrest the nomination away.

Linc

I fear that it is very possible that Santorum could wrest the nomination away.

Personally, I don't fear the GOP shooting themselves in the head like that.

vinlyn

I fear that it is very possible that Santorum could wrest the nomination away.

Personally, I don't fear the GOP shooting themselves in the head like that.

Given normal experiences, I agree.

But here's what scares me. Let's say Santorum does get the nomination. And Obama makes some horrible mistake during the campaign. Or there's another 9/11. Or the situation with Iran goes down the tubes. Or the bottom falls out of the economy. Who knows what the electoral outcome could be?

person

The Daily Show did a funny and penetrating bit on why the Republican establishment doesn't want Rick Santorum based on political rhetoric or lack of it from Santorum.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-february-23-2012/indecision-2012---rick-santorum-s-conservative-rhetoric

Theswingisyellow

When you have a two party system in which the status quo is ultimately maintained- be it the continuation of the patriot act vis-a-vis the NDAA, the blatant disregard of our civil liberties, the continuation of Bush's perpetual war policy, our fiscal ineptitude, the debt crisis, and bailouts what does it really matter if I pick Brand X or Brand Y?
Why participate in the election of personalities?

Theswingisyellow

@Mountains"We wonder what's wrong with America"?
It has no moral or ethical compass. It is a nacissitic culture in love with spectacle. To quote Chris Hedges in "Empire of Illusion" p. 192,
"Our culture of illusion is, at its core, a culture of death".

sndymorn

@Mountains"We wonder what's wrong with America"?
It has no moral or ethical compass. It is a nacissitic culture in love with spectacle. To quote Chris Hedges in "Empire of Illusion" p. 192,
"Our culture of illusion is, at its core, a culture of death".

A "compass" is external to ourselves. For instance, "The Ten Commandments" or relying on a document like the "Constitution" are external. In Buddhism , as I perceive it, one eschews the "compass" in favor of an internal , subjective morality. A Buddhist "Knows " right and wrong by feeling alone. No rules , only guidelines.
I am not sure which I feel more comfortable with.... I am likely to be a seeker till I die.

person

A "compass" is external to ourselves. For instance, "The Ten Commandments" or relying on a document like the "Constitution" are external. In Buddhism , as I perceive it, one eschews the "compass" in favor of an internal , subjective morality. A Buddhist "Knows " right and wrong by feeling alone. No rules , only guidelines.
I am not sure which I feel more comfortable with.... I am likely to be a seeker till I die.

Yes Buddhist ethics are much more in line with a virtue ethics. Imo virtue ethics doesn't work very well in a social, regulatory context. The question then is who's morals, who's ethics? The right in America says these must come from the Christian God. Surely there can be an agreed upon set of moral guidelines maybe based in part upon but seperate from religious doctrine.

vinlyn

Yes Buddhist ethics are much more in line with a virtue ethics. Imo virtue ethics doesn't work very well in a social, regulatory context. The question then is who's morals, who's ethics? The right in America says these must come from the Christian God. Surely there can be an agreed upon set of moral guidelines maybe based in part upon but seperate from religious doctrine.

Just one minor correction here...it is not only Christians who can be conservative. Nor all all Christians conservative.

Seeking_peace

I truly believe that if you choose an intelligent individual from each of the major world religions, including atheists, that they could set down a set of basic widely accepted morals. Although some of us do not need that external set of guidelines, unfortunately there are a great number of people out there who wouldnt have any direction without those guidelines and a way to enforce them.

These are things that should be taught from birth and I imagine are hard to adjust to if you were to grow up without them.

person

Yes Buddhist ethics are much more in line with a virtue ethics. Imo virtue ethics doesn't work very well in a social, regulatory context. The question then is who's morals, who's ethics? The right in America says these must come from the Christian God. Surely there can be an agreed upon set of moral guidelines maybe based in part upon but seperate from religious doctrine.

Just one minor correction here...it is not only Christians who can be conservative. Nor all all Christians conservative.

Important distinction. But I still say that the right (politically) says that the basis for our public morality should come from the Christian bible.

vinlyn

@Person: Actually, I know a number of conservative Jews who vote Republican, who would disagree completely.

person

@Person: Actually, I know a number of conservative Jews who vote Republican, who would disagree completely.

I imagine they would but they don't make Republican policy. The Rebuplican party is an institution and institutions make decisions that don't always agree with all the members. So maybe I should have said the Republican party instead of the right from the start.

Also Jews and Christians share the old testament so there is some grounds for agreement there.

Telly03

@Person: Actually, I know a number of conservative Jews who vote Republican, who would disagree completely.

I imagine they would but they don't make Republican policy. The Rebuplican party is an institution and institutions make decisions that don't always agree with all the members. So maybe I should have said the Republican party instead of the right from the start.

Is that documented somewhere as their policy?

person

@Person: Actually, I know a number of conservative Jews who vote Republican, who would disagree completely.

I imagine they would but they don't make Republican policy. The Rebuplican party is an institution and institutions make decisions that don't always agree with all the members. So maybe I should have said the Republican party instead of the right from the start.

Is that documented somewhere as their policy?

Idk, maybe not. It certainly is in their rhetoric though. Often they talk about morality and belief in God and Christian ideals but I guess they don't do much policy wise to back that up. Though all the DOMA stuff certainly is.

vinlyn

@Person: Actually, I know a number of conservative Jews who vote Republican, who would disagree completely.

I imagine they would but they don't make Republican policy. The Rebuplican party is an institution and institutions make decisions that don't always agree with all the members. So maybe I should have said the Republican party instead of the right from the start.

Also Jews and Christians share the old testament so there is some grounds for agreement there.

It isn't that I'm disagreeing. More pointing out nuances to some generalizations you are making.

And if you think the Jewish lobby doesn't have a major role in particularly the Republican stance toward Israel, think again.

person

And if you think the Jewish lobby doesn't have a major role in particularly the Republican stance toward Israel, think again.

No I don't think that. I also don't think that all Christians believe in the principles of the religious part of the Republican party.

person

I guess the distinction I'm trying to make is that of 'real' Christianity vs 'political' Christianity. This is an article from the last election but shows what I mean.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jessica-catto/a-tale-of-two-religions-r_b_124945.html

vinlyn

I guess the distinction I'm trying to make is that of 'real' Christianity vs 'political' Christianity. This is an article from the last election but shows what I mean.

That's cool. And I'm just trying to not stereotype people, too much.

Theswingisyellow

As to a moral or ethical compass, pick your flavor!
Anything from the major religions or philosophies have to be better than consumerism and nacissism.

vinlyn

As to a moral or ethical compass, pick your flavor!
Anything from the major religions or philosophies have to be better than consumerism and nacissism.

Perhaps that's the problem...way too many individual compasses.

Mountains

Ultimately, I think a lot of the success (perceived or otherwise) of people like Rick Santorum is based on anti-intellectualism. People who can't or won't take the time to figure things out for themselves. They want to be spoon fed everything they believe in, from their religion to their politics. A little box with all the answers in it is all they're after. And the GOP is very adept at giving it to them in a jingoistic, simplistic, dumbed-down way that's right up their alley.

Bekenze

Anti-intellectualism you say?

Vote for Rick Santorum. He hates those fags, intellectual types, negros, women, poor people, moslems, Obama and everybody else you hate. Vote Santorum today.