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How old are you? This is a simplified explanation for children. Have you been following this discussion? I posted several posts ago that water doesn't get reused because it's contaminated. Honestly, I don't think I can help you. You need to study this question more. And our other members' posts about not flushing were aimed at conserving water, not about conserving "pee", or diluting it. :wtf:
I think Dakini and mfranzdorf are talking about 2 slightly different things here. Mf seems to be talking about the water cycle, and in that sense, he/she is correct -- the water is not lost to the water cycle. But Dakini is also correct, if I interpret her correctly, that man does change the usability of water.
You are the one that brought up contaminated waterz so I was responding to that as well. I get it that water should be conserved if there is a scarcity issue. A water treatment system exists for the purpose of making water usable again, and again, and again. Don't worry though, the glaciers will melt and we will have more water than we can handle. Al Gore told me so. Thanks though for talking down to me. I was asking a legit question, and since my beliefs don't match yours, I was belittled. Not cool. You have caused me much suffering.
Good post, @vinlyn. Goodness, the strange tangents that can develop when misunderstandings occur! It pays to read posts carefully and thoughtfully.
To get the discussion back on a sane footing :rolleyes: :
Water comes from glacial and snow melt, underground aquifers, and to some extent rain, which replenishes the aquifers. When more water is used than is replaced to the aquifer by rain, water shortages develop. Using water mindfully is important. However, the biggest users of water are farmers. It's mainly agricultural use that's depleting aquifers, speaking about the US. India's water to a great extent comes from glacial melt in the Himalayas, and the glaciers are melting alarmingly fast. India will be in serious trouble soon. Groundwater everywhere is becoming contaminated by agricultural chemicals and salt, by sewage, by solid waste dumps containing mercury and other toxic chemicals, etc. Milder winters are leading to less snow coverage in mountainous regions, which causes water shortages in urban areas dependent on regional snowmelt.
The moral of the story: water is becoming a rare commodity no longer to be taken for granted. Use it mindfully.
@Dakini I understand conserving water in a drought prone area of a third world. What I don't get is how not flushing the toilet somehow saves water. That water does not vanish when flushed. It goes right back into the ground to be used again and again.
Please. I discussed contaminated water to respond to this comment. Can we put an end to this now?
Studies have shown though, that when a local population takes steps to conserve water, it only encourages the real estate developers to build more houses. So in the end, no water is saved.
In all this row, this important point was overlooked. Individuals can do all they want to conserve resources, but as long as business interests prevail, their efforts will be for nought. There needs to be a two-pronged approach; from the bottom up (individual conservation efforts), and from the top down (incentives for corporations to conserve, and to change their operations), along with a redesign of the global economic model.
@mfranzendorf Treated sewage water can only be used in gardens or for agriculture. People consume a lot of water in the home. "Grey water" can't be used in the kitchen or for bathing.
Anyway, back to the original question, recycling is our main thing. The local landfill just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
I get all of these ideas, except the one about not flushing the pee water. I don't understand how doing that saves water. The water does not vanish from the cosmos when it goes down a drain, it goes back to the ground from which it came, does it not?
Only %2.5 of the earths water is freshwater, most of that is tied up in glaciers so only like %.0007 of all earths water is available for human consumption. Most of that is then used in agriculture.
Studies have shown though, that when a local population takes steps to conserve water, it only encourages the real estate developers to build more houses. So in the end, no water is saved.
In all this row, this important point was overlooked. Individuals can do all they want to conserve resources, but as long as business interests prevail, their efforts will be for nought. There needs to be a two-pronged approach; from the bottom up (individual conservation efforts), and from the top down (incentives for corporations to conserve, and to change their operations), along with a redesign of the global economic model.
Very true. I remember how draconian some of the power restrictions were in the home and in schools and office back during the oil embargo...while the lights in Vegas weren't dimmed a bit.
It's industrial and agricultural use, and resource extraction (mining) that's using up what little freshwater there is, in appalling amounts, without a thought. Grey water systems could be built to address those needs, saving fresh water for human and animal consumption. This should have been done decades ago, when economies were better able to afford it.
also are you starting a "true self" conversation or post??
Who, me? I just started a DO and Dependent Cessation post. Dive in.
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zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
@zombiegirl It's possibly your grandmother's frugality was the result of living through the Depression. Depression-era people grew up to be frugal about everything.
Probably so! She exhibits a lot of those characteristics, but actually, she grew up on a farm where they used/reused everything possible. She actually didn't even have indoor plumbing for most of her childhood/teens. That thought still blows my mind. It gets cold in Michigan winters...
A Hamburger Water cost: 634 gallons just to produce the beef. By comparison, an average hot tub holds between 450 and 500 gallons of water.
One Pound of Pork Chops Water Cost: 576 gallons of water In an industrial pig farming system, it takes 10 months to raise a pig for slaughter. The water used during that time for feeding and cleaning, and then slaughtering and processing a pig requires more than 2,900 gallons of water — enough to fill the Washington Monument to the top. Twice.
Glass of Milk Water Cost: 62.5 gallons It takes an average 1,000 gallons of water to produce a gallon of milk.
Cheese Plate Water cost: Approximately 600 gallons for one pound of cheese. This figure does not include the amount of water required to produce the milk used in the cheese — nearly 900 gallons.
:eek:
Not flushing to toilet is nice, (or maybe not so nice!) but the amounts of water saved are infinitesimal compared to the different kinds of food we eat and their water usage.
The Aral Sea was drained in order to irrigate cotton crops the Soviet regime planted in the Central Asian republics. The local people wore silk, not cotton. This cotton was for the Russian population. Why plant water-hungry cotton, one of the thirstiest of plants, in a desert is a mystery. The US does something similar, subsidizing water to agribusiness to grow rice, another exceptionally thirsty crop, in the California desert. Governments have taken limitless water for granted in setting policy.
Who is bottling African water for export? There's no water at the grocery store labelled "African Water", or "Lake Victoria Water". 600 gallons of water for one pair of jeans sounds inaccurate. More facts are needed in this video.
My most eco-friendly habit is the habit of NOT smoking cigarettes (something I thoroughly enjoyed!) for 13 years now. I had quit several times before, for one year, and once for more than 3 years, but always started again. I told ya, I enjoyed it... :-/
But then the thought struck me that aside from recycling, and conserving gas and energy, quitting smoking would be very eco-friendly for my home, my clothes, my internal body, my hair, and my furniture as well as cutting down on all the cleaning stuff to keep all those things reasonably clean and nicotine free. Also, smoking adds to air pollution and paper/filter waste. So I quit. Cold turkey, back in January of 1999.
I don't have a car ( they're horrible dangerous smelly noisy things ) and in the winter I wear a jumper indoors instead of turning the heating up to tropical setting. And I flush the toilet occasionally....
So, a decade ago when I lived in Falls Church, Virginia, I decided to be a good little boy and begin recycling. The city dropped off a free green recycling tub and all went well, until someone stole it from the weekly trash location. So I ordered another. Eventually that got stolen as well. And eventually a third, after which I got reprimanded for "allowing" my bin to get stolen from the "common area" where my street's trash had to be placed. End of recycling for me.
Now, mostly as a result of this thread, and now living in Colorado Springs, I decided to get back on the bandwagon of recycling. So I decided to first call the trash collection company. Well they had 2 sizes of tubs, the larger size was going to cost me $80, the smaller size, "Well, I don't the price of that." Then I asked if I had to pay a monthly fee for recycling, and if so, what was the fee? "Well, I don't have that information. I don't know what the fee is or if you pay it or your HOA. Maybe there's not a fee." Hmmmmm. So I contacted my HOA. They don't know either.
I found out a while ago that the city I live in has a contract with the local garbage company for a certain amount of garbage per month. If the city does not have enough garbage to give the company per month, they take stuff out of the recycle bins and send it to the regular garbage company... to meet their contract quota. W...T...F! :eek2:
We have our own garden. It not only is better for us, but living in a very rural area like we do, it helps to cut down on transportation of goods to our area. Luckily many people here have gardens as well. However, I'm afraid the environment we live in makes it difficult to maintain year round, even when preserving. We live in a zone 2 growing area, so our growing season is very short. Last frost in early June, first frost in September
We are blessed to live in an area largely untouched by pollution (compared to other parts of the US and the world) and we live in the Great Lakes region so fresh water is plentiful if you are willing to treat your own. We do what we can to use grey water and rain water for the gardens, we ride bikes in the months we are able instead of driving, we try to conserve water and electricity wherever we can, but some days it feels hopeless considering what the planet is up against. Sigh.
I have to honestly say that, our most important contribution is our children. We raise them to be very conscientious of the world around them, to teach mindfulness in everything they do, to teach them better than our generation does. Having children in a world that is overpopulated (we have 3 children) is a hefty responsibility and we do our very best to make sure that the children we let loose into the world are the most compassionate, most responsible, most aware they can be. They already understand things on a level that I only recently began to comprehend. They are pretty amazing in that way. Not just our kids, but their generation.
Comments
Nice and easy to understand.
To get the discussion back on a sane footing :rolleyes: :
Water comes from glacial and snow melt, underground aquifers, and to some extent rain, which replenishes the aquifers. When more water is used than is replaced to the aquifer by rain, water shortages develop. Using water mindfully is important. However, the biggest users of water are farmers. It's mainly agricultural use that's depleting aquifers, speaking about the US. India's water to a great extent comes from glacial melt in the Himalayas, and the glaciers are melting alarmingly fast. India will be in serious trouble soon. Groundwater everywhere is becoming contaminated by agricultural chemicals and salt, by sewage, by solid waste dumps containing mercury and other toxic chemicals, etc. Milder winters are leading to less snow coverage in mountainous regions, which causes water shortages in urban areas dependent on regional snowmelt.
The moral of the story: water is becoming a rare commodity no longer to be taken for granted. Use it mindfully.
@mfranzendorf Treated sewage water can only be used in gardens or for agriculture. People consume a lot of water in the home. "Grey water" can't be used in the kitchen or for bathing.
http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/globalchange2/current/lectures/freshwater_supply/freshwater.html
So don't think about it as all water being equal. Its about fresh, clean, usuable water.
also are you starting a "true self" conversation or post??
http://www.cnbc.com/id/39156898/There_s_How_Much_Water_In_My_Hamburger?slide=1
The parts that I found most interesting:
A Hamburger
Water cost: 634 gallons just to produce the beef. By comparison, an average hot tub holds between 450 and 500 gallons of water.
One Pound of Pork Chops
Water Cost: 576 gallons of water
In an industrial pig farming system, it takes 10 months to raise a pig for slaughter. The water used during that time for feeding and cleaning, and then slaughtering and processing a pig requires more than 2,900 gallons of water — enough to fill the Washington Monument to the top. Twice.
Glass of Milk
Water Cost: 62.5 gallons
It takes an average 1,000 gallons of water to produce a gallon of milk.
Cheese Plate
Water cost: Approximately 600 gallons for one pound of cheese. This figure does not include the amount of water required to produce the milk used in the cheese — nearly 900 gallons.
:eek:
Not flushing to toilet is nice, (or maybe not so nice!) but the amounts of water saved are infinitesimal compared to the different kinds of food we eat and their water usage.
Who is bottling African water for export? There's no water at the grocery store labelled "African Water", or "Lake Victoria Water". 600 gallons of water for one pair of jeans sounds inaccurate. More facts are needed in this video.
But then the thought struck me that aside from recycling, and conserving gas and energy, quitting smoking would be very eco-friendly for my home, my clothes, my internal body, my hair, and my furniture as well as cutting down on all the cleaning stuff to keep all those things reasonably clean and nicotine free. Also, smoking adds to air pollution and paper/filter waste. So I quit. Cold turkey, back in January of 1999.
So, a decade ago when I lived in Falls Church, Virginia, I decided to be a good little boy and begin recycling. The city dropped off a free green recycling tub and all went well, until someone stole it from the weekly trash location. So I ordered another. Eventually that got stolen as well. And eventually a third, after which I got reprimanded for "allowing" my bin to get stolen from the "common area" where my street's trash had to be placed. End of recycling for me.
Now, mostly as a result of this thread, and now living in Colorado Springs, I decided to get back on the bandwagon of recycling. So I decided to first call the trash collection company. Well they had 2 sizes of tubs, the larger size was going to cost me $80, the smaller size, "Well, I don't the price of that." Then I asked if I had to pay a monthly fee for recycling, and if so, what was the fee? "Well, I don't have that information. I don't know what the fee is or if you pay it or your HOA. Maybe there's not a fee." Hmmmmm. So I contacted my HOA. They don't know either.
We are blessed to live in an area largely untouched by pollution (compared to other parts of the US and the world) and we live in the Great Lakes region so fresh water is plentiful if you are willing to treat your own. We do what we can to use grey water and rain water for the gardens, we ride bikes in the months we are able instead of driving, we try to conserve water and electricity wherever we can, but some days it feels hopeless considering what the planet is up against. Sigh.
I have to honestly say that, our most important contribution is our children. We raise them to be very conscientious of the world around them, to teach mindfulness in everything they do, to teach them better than our generation does. Having children in a world that is overpopulated (we have 3 children) is a hefty responsibility and we do our very best to make sure that the children we let loose into the world are the most compassionate, most responsible, most aware they can be. They already understand things on a level that I only recently began to comprehend. They are pretty amazing in that way. Not just our kids, but their generation.