Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Too Much Meat?
Yishai
Veteran
First, let me say that this is not about becoming a vegetarian or vegan because there is no such thing as a blood-less food. In some way, at some point along the line, animals/insects/etc. had to give up life. Sometimes it's through the production of energy, through harvesting fields, through butchering animals, etc.
What I wanted to talk about was something that my girlfriend's mother and grandmother mentioned (they are both South Korean). Her mother is used to the American way since she has known American tradition, food, and culture for the majority of her life. However, her grandmother just visited the states a year ago for the first time. One thing that they both noticed while here was that, for the most part, Americans eat meat with every meal and typically makes up a significant portion of any given meal. Koreans do have many meat dishes, but it is not uncommon to have mostly, or completely, vegetable/fruit/grain meals. This whole thing got me thinking... are we really eating too much meat? What really is the healthy thing for me, and what is good for the whole of life and society?
I've listened to a few talks, read a few blogs, and read some surveys. Seems that for the most part we still fail to substitute plants where we need to, and instead, we continue eating meat.
Just wanted to know how others feel about this and what the sensible thing is in your view.
What I wanted to talk about was something that my girlfriend's mother and grandmother mentioned (they are both South Korean). Her mother is used to the American way since she has known American tradition, food, and culture for the majority of her life. However, her grandmother just visited the states a year ago for the first time. One thing that they both noticed while here was that, for the most part, Americans eat meat with every meal and typically makes up a significant portion of any given meal. Koreans do have many meat dishes, but it is not uncommon to have mostly, or completely, vegetable/fruit/grain meals. This whole thing got me thinking... are we really eating too much meat? What really is the healthy thing for me, and what is good for the whole of life and society?
I've listened to a few talks, read a few blogs, and read some surveys. Seems that for the most part we still fail to substitute plants where we need to, and instead, we continue eating meat.
Just wanted to know how others feel about this and what the sensible thing is in your view.
0
Comments
Also, nutrition is something that must be learned. I wish it was a class taught in high school as part of the health class curriculum...along with money management and how to get along with your roommate in college...
Anyway, I think (no offense womenfolk) that the person that is responsible for rearing children must also have a good foundation on nutrition...kids eat what their parents eat.
That's one of the things that came up in my discussion with my girlfriend. It's always been since I was born. You eat your "meat and potatoes". There is a starch and a meat in every single meal. Without these, it feels like I am missing something. Which makes sense given how I was raised to feel that way. Additionally, protein in meats does help make a person feel full and satiated.
I have never taken a nutrition class. I figure that a nutrition class is better than no nutrition class. But the field of nutrition as a study seems to be all over the place. When trying to find answers, I typically get opposite answers with equal amounts of support. It is so difficult to filter out all the BS when it is difficult to know what is right and what is wrong. But that may point toward food science being difficult to think in terms of right and wrong.
Mark Bittman, a well-known foodie, said that (roughly) "We know longer eat meat for nutritional value, but rather for an odd form of MALnutrition." He also mentioned that we should only be eating half a pound of meat per week. When that is more akin to what we eat in a day.
Interesting stuff for sure.
I was also raised with meat as a main component of the meal everyday. But once I moved out and had the opportunity to cook for myself, I quickly changed to a diet with a lot less meat, a lot of the time totally without.
What I personally noticed is that it will be much more easy to vary my meals (which is always healthy I suppose) and it forces me to eat more vegetables, nuts and other things. I don't feel I'm really missing anything and I liked the vegetarian kitchen from the start; more than I did my 'mom's dishes' (sorry, mam :P)
I'm not a nutrition expert, but I did some research and found that meat -if needed at all- is indeed not needed in the amounts that it is usually eaten. Whether that amount of meat is just unnescessary or also bad for your health is another discussion. If you see how animals are treated and bred, I have my concerns.
With metta,
Sabre
For the missing effect, it help if you eat delicious food all the time.
I don't think of it as "I don't eat meat", i just think of it as "i'm eating this delicious food".
but this happen gradually for me, over a period of a year or so.
I can imagine if i had switched cold turkey i could have suffered from cravings.
Now i don't eat meat at all even tho my favorite food use to be steak and potatoes.
Now just the idea of eating meat kind of gross me out a bit.
"switched cold turkey"...... :rolleyes:
i love meat, but I can't eat it. it messes my muscular system up something chronic and gives me unbearably painful cramp....but the less I eat it, the less I crave it.
this famous programme..."man vs food" ....not only have I never seen him eat a completely vegetarian dish, ever, but the amount of meat he consumes in one dish, is positively obscene....
It gives the overall impression Americans wouldn't know what to do with a veggie dish.
Like, their systems simply couldn't cope with it.
i know that's not true, but really - I reckon he get's through Old MacDonald's farm twice over in a year.....
My trouble is that I have difficulty digesting any green leafy vegetables, as well as corn and celery (along with a few other veggies). I like them, but no sense being sick and have to stay at home for 2 days just to eat veggies. So for me, it is meat with dinner, always. If I eat lunch, it may or may not be meat. Never meat with breakfast.
1) I really am repulsed by the things that happens to animals, what THEY eat, and even how it's preserved. So many antibiotics and such, unnatural diets, you name it.
2) Meat is expensive. I know fresh vegetables are not cheap either, but I do believe it costs considerably less if I can put more veggies in my diet in place of meat.
3) I'm becoming disillusioned to the whole "you need meat for protein!" statement. Obviously, I don't need it in the current quantities I happen to slam down every week.
Thanks for the input guys
Oh and... it's always meat at lunch and dinner. But it's definitely not necessary every day for the 2 meals I always eat.
For young children some fish in their diet is good for the brain. At least that's what I read.
I'm not try to be vegan or vegetarian. I'm okay with meat.
What American's are actually eating
I visited my cousin out in California a few years ago. While there we went out to a pizza buffet once and they had a couple pizzas loaded with veggies; zuccini, spinach, broccoli, onion, peppers and some meat too. If I go to a buffet here in Minnesota variety is considered one meat, two meat, three meat, or meat lovers pizza, oh they do usually have a limp cheese pizza too.
The six potential side effects listed are: Kidney problems, low calcium, heart problems from animal proteins, cancer from animal proteins, reduced ketosis, and gout.
Of course, it's hardly a secret that the TYPE of meat matters as well. Cancer is higher with red meats, fats are typically lower with poultry. But the thing I've always found interesting about this is that being a vegetarian, people always tell me how unhealthy I am being since 'I can't possibly replace the nutrients from meat in my diet with veg sources'... And yet, many of those potential side effects are EXTREMELY common in our diet. Too little protein causes a disease called kwashiorkor, which is nearly unheard of outside of third world countries (and those with eating disorders).
I also once attended a lecture from a nutritionist that discussed the enzymes for digestion. She was the type that did more for her diet than most of us could ever DREAM of attempting, lol. For example, she didn't drink water or any sort of liquid with her meal because it would dilute the enzymes. She would eat fruit alone and allow 15 minutes for digestion. She said that combining meats and starches is actually a very bad move since the enzymes needed to break down the two food groups do not have a symbiotic relationship and it can actually hinder some of the nutrition gained. So, your typical "meat and potatoes" is actually counterproductive. When thinking about this sort of eating and comparing it to our modern day diet, it sounds completely ridiculous, but I suppose... if you think about us as mammals, foraging in the wild, when would an animal really combine different food groups into a meal like we do? Lol.
I think the difference between the Western diet and East Asian diet (which certainly has meat) - and @Yishai certainly pointed this out - is moderation in meat intake.
IMHO, pretending a problem doesn't exist is not a good way of living life.
I saw people only made change after having heart surgery.
Sometimes we have to swallow the bitter medicine.
The what-people-actually-eat pyramid looks healthier: notice 1/3 of intake is fruits and veggies. Carbs (grains) are only 13%. Almost 40% of intake is dairy. Hard to believe this is accurate. There's no category for starches, like potato. I guess that comes under veggies? So maybe that 26% "veggies" is mostly french fries, or something. Strange chart. I don't think it represents reality. And it doesn't mention sweets or oils, they forgot that.
I drool just looking at it....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Tao-Food-Richard-Craze/dp/1899434631/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333451376&sr=1-1
this i also have.... it's wonderful.....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Cake-Buddha-Ate-Quiet/dp/1770097724/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333451335&sr=1-1
Looking at the shape is kind of misleading, if you look at the actual numbers in the USDA pyramid fruits and each level is basically 1/3 of total intake even though they look different. In the inverted pyramid over half of intake comes from meat and dairy instead of 1/3, which is the main point I think.
You make a good point about not all types of food in each category can be considered equal such as whole grain vs refined.
I picked the USDA pyramid because there isn't a 'proper' diet food pyramid that we can compare an actual US diet with.
Here's the link to the website that the inverted pyramid is from if you want to check the stats.
http://www.vegsource.com/articles/milk_pyramid.htm
@zombiegirl The first food pyramid (the USDA one) includes beans and nuts with meat and fish (i.e., "protein"). But the Harvard one is best, don't you think? And they explain that dairy = calcium, and allow Vit D & calcium supplements as a substitute. And they include refined grains and potatoes with sweets. Harvard is on the ball!
The exercise/weight control base is a nice touch, too.