"I don't eat my friends"

seeker242

Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo "I don't eat my friends"

Good videos.

etherea

I am a subscriber to her newsletter from the nunneryand admire her a great deal but am a little shocked by the comment in part 4 "some of the most carniverous lamas I ever new radiated an aura of tremendous purity". Doesn't sit well with me I'm afraid.

patbb

that's my mentality as well.

If i had a fish in a fish tank or a pond, i'd give it a name, would love him and wouldn't want to eat him.
so i don't eat fish and seafood.
If i had a cow, i'd love her and wouldn't eat it.
same with pigs, chicken and everyone else.

(I'd love to have pigs, cows, horse, fish btw,


Thanks for sharing!

patbb

btw, shouldn't this thread be more appropriate in the "Morality" section rather than in the "diet" section?
It's not really about the nutritious values of animals but rather how we perceive them and the moral choices we make based on this position.

RichardH

Eating your friends? never say never......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive:_The_Story_of_the_Andes_Survivors


@ethera... I have known good hearted people who eat meat, and corrupt people who are vegetarian.... A vegetarian moral superiority that casts a pall over non-vegetrians for their general impurity is not a part of Buddhism IMHO.

patbb

@ethera... I have known good hearted people who eat meat, and corrupt people who are vegetarian....
A vegetarian moral superiority that casts a pall over non-vegetrians for their general impurity is not a part of Buddhism IMHO.

Defining/Identifying ourselves with our habits or is not very free indeed.
as in
"I'm a vegetarian"
"I'm an artist"
"I'm a doctor"
"I'm a guy"
"I'm a buddhist"
etc...

using labels to describe ourselves or our habits/actions is perfectly fine however.

now back to the subject

RichardH

@ethera... I have known good hearted people who eat meat, and corrupt people who are vegetarian....
A vegetarian moral superiority that casts a pall over non-vegetrians for their general impurity is not a part of Buddhism IMHO.

Defining/Identifying ourselves with our habits or is not very free indeed.
as in
"I'm a vegetarian"
"I'm an artist"
"I'm a doctor"
"I'm a guy"
"I'm a buddhist"
etc...

using labels to describe ourselves or our habits/actions is perfectly fine however.

now back to the subject

I was responding to Ethera's statement. It was a fair response.. If you do not agree that is also fair, but it was not off topic.

As to your statement about "I am" statements... We are in the same town.. lets meet for coffee.. We'll know in a second what is real and what is online pretence. How about it?

patbb

I was responding to Ethera's statement. It was a fair response.. If you do not agree that is also fair, but it was not off topic.

I didn't think it was fair or not fair, i just thought it was a comment like any other.
And i thought of this many time in the past in my life so i thought I'd add my 2 cents on this subject.

Sorry, this seem to have offended you, perhaps it is a sensitive subject for you for some reason?

As to your statement about "I am" statements... We are in the same town.. lets meet for coffee.. We'll know in a second what is real and what is online pretence. How about it?

I don't get where the animosity come from Richard.
Are you coincidentally all of the things i listed?
If you are then i'm sorry, it was only a (hilarious?) coincidence.

We'll know in a second what is real and what is online pretence. How about it?

Hopefully what i wrote above apeased you and cleared the misunderstanding but if not; I'm not up for a "Buddhist showdown".
I think the notion of it is ridiculous and one of the least "Buddhist" thing one could do.
Anyone showing up to a "Buddhist showdown" shouldn't consider himself a Buddhist imho don't you think so?

vinlyn

Perhaps this constant nagging by the vegetarians is a very Buddhist thing to do, either.

RichardH

I was responding to Ethera's statement. It was a fair response.. If you do not agree that is also fair, but it was not off topic.

I didn't think it was fair or not fair, i just thought it was a comment like any other.
And i thought of this many time in the past in my life so i thought I'd add my 2 cents on this subject.

Sorry, this seem to have offended you, perhaps it is a sensitive subject for you for some reason?

As to your statement about "I am" statements... We are in the same town.. lets meet for coffee.. We'll know in a second what is real and what is online pretence. How about it?

I don't get where the animosity come from Richard.
Are you coincidentally all of the things i listed?
If you are then i'm sorry, it was only a (hilarious?) coincidence.

We'll know in a second what is real and what is online pretence. How about it?

Hopefully what i wrote above apeased you and cleared the misunderstanding but if not; I'm not up for a "Buddhist showdown".
I think the notion of it is ridiculous and one of the least "Buddhist" thing one could do.
Anyone showing up to a "Buddhist showdown" shouldn't consider himself a Buddhist imho don't you think so?

I don't have animosity toward you, pat. I wouldn't want to meet you for a coffee if I did. I come across kinda blunt when typing.. typed words are very angular..

...still up for coffee sometime...if ever you want to. ..and seeing through online pretence is not about Buddhist achievement but who we are as plain old conventional people... 360 degrees. thats all.

..... now I have really steered this off topic.

RichardH

Perhaps this constant nagging by the vegetarians is a very Buddhist thing to do, either.

Buddhists may or may not be vegetarian.... there are a mix of people. It is not a source of discord in the meditation hall usually, though opinions may differ.

vinlyn

Perhaps this constant nagging by the vegetarians is a very Buddhist thing to do, either.

Buddhists may or may not be vegetarian.... there are a mix of people. It is not a source of discord in the meditation hall usually, though opinions may differ.

I agree very much. But on this forum this repeat topic comes up nearly every week, same old broken record.

Arthurbodhi

Eating your friends? never say never......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive:_The_Story_of_the_Andes_Survivors


@ethera... I have known good hearted people who eat meat, and corrupt people who are vegetarian.... A vegetarian moral superiority that casts a pall over non-vegetrians for their general impurity is not a part of Buddhism IMHO.

But they don't killed their friends for eating them.

etherea

I wasn't commenting on my thoughts on vegetarianism, only on how I felt about Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo's comment. I found it a bit strange coming from her

seeker242

Eating your friends? never say never......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive:_The_Story_of_the_Andes_Survivors


@ethera... I have known good hearted people who eat meat, and corrupt people who are vegetarian.... A vegetarian moral superiority that casts a pall over non-vegetrians for their general impurity is not a part of Buddhism IMHO.

BUT, standing up for suffering beings and speaking on their behalf, who have no voice of their own, is very Buddhist! Just as long as you're not an ass about it.

RichardH

Eating your friends? never say never......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive:_The_Story_of_the_Andes_Survivors


@ethera... I have known good hearted people who eat meat, and corrupt people who are vegetarian.... A vegetarian moral superiority that casts a pall over non-vegetrians for their general impurity is not a part of Buddhism IMHO.

BUT, standing up for suffering beings and speaking on their behalf, who have no voice of their own, is very Buddhist! Just as long as you're not an ass about it.

Ok. so lets say both statements are true....

A vegetarian moral superiority that casts a pall over non-vegetarians for their general impurity is not a part of Buddhism

standing up for suffering beings and speaking on their behalf, who have no voice of their own, is very Buddhist!

Somewhere in there is skillfulness....

David

I'm trying not to eat my friends anymore. I've always felt or known there was something wrong there. I remember looking at a piece of steak when I was little and thinking how the little triangles and diamond patterns in the steak looked like the triangles and diamond patterns in my hand.

I just couldn't see past the stigma and figured I was just screwey. Everybody else eats it and I was told that we'd die without it. Apparently that just isn't true. We now have vegan triathletes. Unless it's a scam to sell the veggie protein and they are lying.

I was going to mention the brand but thought better of it. I am going to try it though... Just to make sure I'm getting enough protein as I have a physical job and tend to burn more energy than I consume.

seeker242

I'm trying not to eat my friends anymore. I've always felt or known there was something wrong there. I remember looking at a piece of steak when I was little and thinking how the little triangles and diamond patterns in the steak looked like the triangles and diamond patterns in my hand.

I just couldn't see past the stigma and figured I was just screwey. Everybody else eats it and I was told that we'd die without it. Apparently that just isn't true. We now have vegan triathletes. Unless it's a scam to sell the veggie protein and they are lying.

I was going to mention the brand but thought better of it. I am going to try it though... Just to make sure I'm getting enough protein as I have a physical job and tend to burn more energy than I consume.

Cool I have read that "fake meat" was actually "invented" like a thousand years ago by Mahayana Buddhist monks. Gluten is often referred to in Chinese restaurants as "Buddha food", because of the claim that it was developed by pacifist, vegetarian Buddhist monks as a meat substitute. But then I have heard that Hindu cuisine was the first to use "fake meat" for religious reasons also and that was like a thousand years ago too. I don't know which one is correct but I'm not a food historian.

Proper protein is pretty easy to get as long as your diet is balanced (AKA variety) and you are getting enough calories. The whole idea that a vegetarian diet has protein issues is largely a myth. But of course, if you routinely expend more calories than you consume, that would be an issue. It is recommended that vegans and vegetarians need around 10% of calories from protein, with the rest coming from fat and carbohydrates. It is not much more for athletes, except bodybuilders. If you feel like learning more about nutrition, this group is really, really good. http://www.vrg.org/



:bowdown:

David

What do you guys think of this?

My emotions are mixed. Meat with no murder...





She says nobody has eaten it but I saw another video where a guy did eat it so it's closer than she says it is.

David

I'm trying not to eat my friends anymore. I've always felt or known there was something wrong there. I remember looking at a piece of steak when I was little and thinking how the little triangles and diamond patterns in the steak looked like the triangles and diamond patterns in my hand.

I just couldn't see past the stigma and figured I was just screwey. Everybody else eats it and I was told that we'd die without it. Apparently that just isn't true. We now have vegan triathletes. Unless it's a scam to sell the veggie protein and they are lying.

I was going to mention the brand but thought better of it. I am going to try it though... Just to make sure I'm getting enough protein as I have a physical job and tend to burn more energy than I consume.

Cool I have read that "fake meat" was actually "invented" like a thousand years ago by Mahayana Buddhist monks. Gluten is often referred to in Chinese restaurants as "Buddha food", because of the claim that it was developed by pacifist, vegetarian Buddhist monks as a meat substitute. But then I have heard that Hindu cuisine was the first to use "fake meat" for religious reasons also and that was like a thousand years ago too. I don't know which one is correct but I'm not a food historian.

Proper protein is pretty easy to get as long as your diet is balanced (AKA variety) and you are getting enough calories. The whole idea that a vegetarian diet has protein issues is largely a myth. But of course, if you routinely expend more calories than you consume, that would be an issue. It is recommended that vegans and vegetarians need around 10% of calories from protein, with the rest coming from fat and carbohydrates. It is not much more for athletes, except bodybuilders. If you feel like learning more about nutrition, this group is really, really good. http://www.vrg.org/



:bowdown:

Thanks!

zombiegirl

Sorry, this is a little OT from the usual pro/anti-vegetarian banter... but I saw this with my niece a while back and the title reminded me of it.

Telly03

Thanks @zombiegirl , I know what song will be going through my head the next time I eat meat

Invincible_summer

"You know how they say you only use 10% of your brain? Well that's because the other 90% is filled with curds and whey."

vinlyn

In my experience, far too many people's brains are filled with turds and whey.

Arthurbodhi

Watch out for the Vegan Police!

One of them is buddhist, he had a mala bead necklass and in the comic also is bald and really look like a buddhist monk.

OneLifeForm

I am a subscriber to her newsletter from the nunneryand admire her a great deal but am a little shocked by the comment in part 4 "some of the most carniverous lamas I ever new radiated an aura of tremendous purity". Doesn't sit well with me I'm afraid.

Try to understand what it is like to be an enlightened being or lama.

They sit in every moment and help every being infinitely.

There is that video on youtube I still have not watched of "Dalai Lama kills mosquito"... I kind of steered away ever clicking on that as I get the sense that the only reason someone would put something like that up online if it did happen in the video is to make him look bad.
The thing is though if he killed the mosquito or even if he didn't he could help guide that thing through the whole death process and into a better rebirth.

Some lamas eating meat.. lets say it was very fresh meat just killed that day and they ate it or didn't eat it.. they can do much more benefit for the creature than I as an ordinary being can.

That is all my opinion really.

Yes there are lamas that drink alcohol, have sex, smoke cigarettes, etc. etc. .. all of that is just so people can relate with them.
Like they really have a problem with cigarettes or alcohol.. or eating meat for that matter.
Whatever they do they keep that aura of tremendous purity because everything they do is tremendously skillful and supremely beneficial to all sentient beings.



If you think your guru is a dog, you will only get the benefits that a dog can give.

If you think of your guru as a regular human being than the only benefits you will get are that, that an ordinary being can give you. (Dog would be preferred over many ordinary beings too!!)

If you view your guru as a fully enlightened being then you will get the benefits that come from interacting with that guru who is connection to all enlightened beings.

RebeccaS

Eating your friends? never say never......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive:_The_Story_of_the_Andes_Survivors


@ethera... I have known good hearted people who eat meat, and corrupt people who are vegetarian.... A vegetarian moral superiority that casts a pall over non-vegetrians for their general impurity is not a part of Buddhism IMHO.

Hitler was vegetarian.

seeker242

Eating your friends? never say never......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alive:_The_Story_of_the_Andes_Survivors


@ethera... I have known good hearted people who eat meat, and corrupt people who are vegetarian.... A vegetarian moral superiority that casts a pall over non-vegetrians for their general impurity is not a part of Buddhism IMHO.

Hitler was vegetarian.

That is a common belief, but it's not actually true if you look deep into the actual history.

The belief that Adolph Hitler was a vegetarian is widespread, and you are certainly not the only one who carries it. But that doesn’t make it true.

Robert Payne is widely considered to be Hitler’s definitive biographer. In his book, Hitler: The Life and Death of Adolph Hitler, Payne says that Hitler’s “vegetarianism” was a “legend” and a “fiction” invented by Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi Minister of Propaganda. According to Payne:

“Hitler’s asceticism played an important part in the image he projected over Germany. According to the widely believed legend, he neither smoked nor drank, nor did he eat meat or have anything to do with women. Only the first was true. http://www.foodrevolution.org/askjohn/47.htm

RebeccaS

That's interesting, cheers!

But I can still think of a few horrible vegetarians

federica

Such as....?

vinlyn

"The most horrific destroyer of mankind in recorded history was Genghis Khan. He was a 100 percent veggie fellow and the amount of people and cities destroyed is incalculable, millions upon millions according to his biographers."

"Pol Pot slaughtered an estimated 2.5 million of his people or 24 percent of the Cambodian population. Yes, he was a bean and leaf eater. He was determined to make his country agrarian, green only, with no livestock to be consumed. So the vegetarian killed the non-vegetarians and those who would not conform to his political standards. He killed all intelligencia, only the planters of rice and vegetable farmers were fit to live. City people were forced to relocate to veggie-raising communes."

"And then we have our own home-grown veggie nut, Charles Manson. His group needs no historical introduction. He merely extolled that vegetarianism was next to cleanliness and that their cult drug power would only come from plants that could produce illusionary enlightenment. But of course, like the other off center vegetarians, he had a double standard on mind-expanding drugs that they made in poisonous cooking labs."

"And what about Jim Jones, in Jonestown, Guyana, South America? His all-vegetarian cult of 900 really did the ultimate. They forced suicide with homemade Kool-Aid … and veggie fruit lemonade."

According to writer Chick Huettel.

federica

We've got Paul McCartney......

RebeccaS

Such as....?

Oh, I didn't name them because you won't know them. I'm thinking of people I went to college with mostly

@Vinlyn I didn't know any of that!

Just goes to show that being vegetarian doesn't necessarily mean anything about your character.

ozen

As to your statement about "I am" statements... We are in the same town.. lets meet for coffee.. We'll know in a second what is real and what is online pretence. How about it?

At high noon? lol. You guys are goofy.

ozen

Palmo's reasoning is not sound. She's not vegetarian because animals are her friends. She may be vegetarian for many good reasons, but animals may or may not be her friend. If she were the size of a mouse her own cat would eat her, and in not a very pleasant manner. Not to mention tigers, lions, bears, sharks or other predatory animals. Of course when animals eat people they're just 'fulfilling the cycle of life' or whatever, but when people eat animals they're eating their friends and immoral. A one-sided relationship is not such a good relationship, at least not an honest one.

vinlyn

Palmo's reasoning is not sound. She's not vegetarian because animals are her friends. She may be vegetarian for many good reasons, but animals may or may not be her friend. If she were the size of a mouse her own cat would eat her, and in not a very pleasant manner. Not to mention tigers, lions, bears, sharks or other predatory animals. Of course when animals eat people they're just 'fulfilling the cycle of life' or whatever, but when people eat animals they're eating their friends and immoral. A one-sided relationship is not such a good relationship, at least not an honest one.

:thumbup:

Lions, and tigers, and bears? Oh my!

karasti

Tim Treadwell thought the bears were his friends, and they had him for dinner. Wild animals don't understand having humans as friends. I live every day with bears and wolves within walking distance from my house. They are fantastic animals, and I have the utmost respect for them. But they are not my friends, and most certainly would be happy to eat my pets for their dinner.

ozen

And the bear that ate Treadwell was immediately killed for eating him. Not very thoughtful to set your 'friends' up for slaughter.

Arthurbodhi

I'm friend of animals, I don't care is the feel is mutual. That is metta.

ozen

Are you friends with people, Arthurbodhi, whether or not they consider you a friend?

Arthurbodhi

I try to

ozen

Just keep in mind that such one-sided mindsets can lead to unfortunate results, as was the case with Treadwell.

ozen

Unfortunate for the 'friends', that is.

Arthurbodhi

I know, be friendly not mean be condecending with others or fault with oneself.

how

I'm vegetarian as an effort to minimize suffering but I know that life only exists by causing death. It is an unavoidable energy exchange. Giving something an empathetic label like friend seems judgemental and doesn't contribute to my just choosing a food that has least the demonstrable sentience and suffering in the culling.

seeker242

Palmo's reasoning is not sound. She's not vegetarian because animals are her friends. She may be vegetarian for many good reasons, but animals may or may not be her friend. If she were the size of a mouse her own cat would eat her, and in not a very pleasant manner. Not to mention tigers, lions, bears, sharks or other predatory animals. Of course when animals eat people they're just 'fulfilling the cycle of life' or whatever, but when people eat animals they're eating their friends and immoral. A one-sided relationship is not such a good relationship, at least not an honest one.

All animals are my friends! Even the ones that would try to kill me and eat me. The fact that they would want to kill me and eat me would be irrelevant. However, just because I would consider them a friend, does not mean I would walk up to them and try to pet them. That would be just plain stupidity! However, regarding them as friends, is appropriate from a Buddhist perspective.

I am a friend of the footless,
I am a friend of the bipeds;
I am a friend of those with four feet,
I am a friend of the many-footed.
May not the footless harm me,
may not the bipeds harm me,
may not those with four feet harm me,
and may not those with many feet harm me.
A. II, 72

Among tigers, lions, leopards & bears I lived in the wood.
No one was frightened of me, nor did I fear anyone.
Uplifted by such universal friendliness I enjoyed the forest.
Finding great solace in sweet silent solitude.
Suvanna-sama Jataka 540

I am a friend and helper to all,
I am sympathetic to all living beings.
I develop a mind full of love and
delights always in harmlessness.
I gladden my mind, fill it with joy,
makes it immovable and unshakable.
I develop the divine states of mind
not cultivated by simple men.
Theragatha. 648-9

ozen

Palmo's reasoning is not sound. She's not vegetarian because animals are her friends. She may be vegetarian for many good reasons, but animals may or may not be her friend. If she were the size of a mouse her own cat would eat her, and in not a very pleasant manner. Not to mention tigers, lions, bears, sharks or other predatory animals. Of course when animals eat people they're just 'fulfilling the cycle of life' or whatever, but when people eat animals they're eating their friends and immoral. A one-sided relationship is not such a good relationship, at least not an honest one.

All animals are my friends! Even the ones that would try to kill me and eat me.

I suspect that with friends like that you don't need any enemies. Good mental strategy, now that I think about it.

ozen

Isn't it funny, in a weird creepy kind or way, that someone won't eat a shark or lion because they are their "friends," even though the shark or lion would eat them, yet this same person will eat all manner of living things from a less related kingdom, the plant kingdom, even though a sprout would never do them harm. Plants are the enemy? lol

Arthurbodhi

So, to feeling fine with what you kill and eat, is better no consider any other living being that could be dangerous like a friend? Other human also can hurt me or kill me. So we can eat other humans? That sound creepiest to me.

ozen

So, to feeling fine with what you kill and eat, is better no consider any other living being that could be dangerous like a friend?

It may be wise to not consider dangerous beings as friends, yes, because they are dangerous. Would you leave a small child alone with a hungry wolf pack? Probably not, right?

What do you think makes a friend a friend and an enemy an enemy? A good part of it has to do with how related we are, and that's why Palmo considers animals friends, and apparently considers plants enemies. Animals are a closer relation, apparently.

Other human also can hurt me or kill me. So we can eat other humans? That sound creepiest to me.

Yes, that is very creepy.

ozen

So, to feeling fine with what you kill and eat, is better no consider any other living being that could be dangerous like a friend?

It may be wise to not consider dangerous beings as friends, yes, because they are dangerous. Would you leave a small child alone with a hungry wolf pack? Probably not, right?

What do you think makes a friend a friend and an enemy an enemy? A good part of it has to do with how related we are, and that's why Palmo considers animals friends, and apparently considers plants enemies. Animals are a closer relation, apparently.

Other human also can hurt me or kill me. So we can eat other humans? That sound creepiest to me.

Yes, that is very creepy.