Are we "normal"?

vinlyn

Before you react negatively, I'll review a bit about myself. I'm gay and not in a relationship anymore since leaving Thailand...and unhappy about that. Several years ago I was on Paxil for depression (albeit a fairly low dose) for a couple of years. I do have a decent social life for my age (62), although I also tend to be a bit of a loner.

Okay, so I'm no perfect person by any means.

But as I read more and more posts where people are very open and honest, I sometimes wonder are we -- as a group -- a bit on the...well, let me use the word "odd" side of things...or at least more odd than any other random group of people?

And if we are, what does that say about us and Buddhism?

raine

"odd" is so subjective. I consider myself an open-minded girl with quite an extension of friends and most are more odd than anyone I have encountered on here. I never really got that vibe here.

Jeffrey

I think there are a lot of odd people who get interested in the internet. But also a lot of non-net people probably have more sort of difficulties than they let on in face to face. I would be hesitant to share my mental illness unless on a need to know basis but on the net I get support from talking about it.

But yes I think you can generalize that people on a buddhist forum are oddballs. I don't think it says anything for Buddhism because that religion can be for odd people or non. I mean anyone can meditate and study. In the west though a fringe religion probably has more independent thinkers and those seeking solace from the norm.

vinlyn

I think there are a lot of odd people who get interested in the internet. But also a lot of non-net people probably have more sort of difficulties than they let on in face to face. I would be hesitant to share my mental illness unless on a need to know basis but on the net I get support from talking about it.

But yes I think you can generalize that people on a buddhist forum are oddballs. I don't think it says anything for Buddhism because that religion can be for odd people or non. I mean anyone can meditate and study. In the west though a fringe religion probably has more independent thinkers and those seeking solace from the norm.

Very insightful, Jeffrey! Thanks for the good post!

Dakini

idk. I think it's more about the 'net. Internet forums in general seem to attract people who are outside the norm (if we can even speak about a norm).

Lots of people are on anti-depressants. Off-line people.
Lots of people are in-between relationships, and the in-between period can last years and years, there's nothing odd about that.
Maybe it only seems that we're odd because we're open about who we are, whereas the hundreds of people who cross your path every day are very guarded. Heck, even some of your good friends may be guarded about their deepest selves. That's sad. But I've noticed it's a characteristic of Americans and maybe Brits or Germanics in general. The stiff-upper-lip tradition, or something. I'm not sure why it is, but it is.

vinlyn

idk. I think it's more about the 'net. Internet forums in general seem to attract people who are outside the norm (if we can even speak about a norm).

Lots of people are on anti-depressants. Off-line people.
Lots of people are in-between relationships, and the in-between period can last years and years, there's nothing odd about that.
Maybe it only seems that we're odd because we're open about who we are, whereas the hundreds of people who cross your path every day are very guarded. Heck, even some of your good friends may be guarded about their deepest selves. That's sad. But I've noticed it's a characteristic of Americans and maybe Brits or Germanics in general. The stiff-upper-lip tradition, or something. I'm not sure why it is, but it is.

I think you're really right about many of us being very open. The anonymity helps a bit to make that happen, but I also do think that perhaps, in general, we tend to be a little more open...and I think that has increased on this forum in recent weeks/months.

person

I agree with @Dakini in that people are often more open on the net. Maybe people are just more open about themselves. Also the style of dialog is different where you're not so much trying to find common ground with whomever you're talking to, instead people put out a topic about themselves or something else and then others respond to that.

I'm also with @Jeffrey in that people into Buddhism are probably outside the norm to begin with.

Cam

I think we're quite the norm here

outside of the internet maybe not so much :P

RichardH

Everybody seems pretty normal to me. Maybe a few people are on the funny side of normal, but normal is really big.

David

Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You.
-- Dr. Seuss

To be unique is to be normal but sometimes I'm so normal it's weird.

Seriously though, I was almost taken aback when I came here and saw so many people talking similar to how I talk.

Jason

I sometimes perceive myself as being 'odd'; but the more I talk to people, the more I think that we're all odd in our own peculiar ways, even so-called 'normal' people. Everyone seems to have their own problems and issues they struggle to deal with, as well as they're own unique personalities. And when in a group, I suspect that everyone probably thinks it's the other people who are the odd ones. Or vice versa. I don't know, just typing out loud.

And in the spirit of full disclosure, I was on Paxil for a short time myself. Made me feel worse, though, so I stopped taking it.

vinlyn

^^ Paxil helped me when I needed it...for about 2 years...but it was a bit unpleasant to get off of it.

Dakini

They say it's crucial to ease off those SRI's gradually, or there can be bad side effects.

vinlyn

^^ Mine wasn't "bad", just unpleasant...although I eased of really slowly. I think if I had been on a higher dose I might have had a real problem. First they had tried Prozac for me. Very bad reaction with lots of heart palpitations.

federica

i believe Buddhism actually attracts people who have psychological issues because first of all, one of the main processes of Buddhism is to know pertinent factors concerning Mind, consciousness and Self/Not-Self and Dependent Origination....so a focus on the mental state is a primary element.
Secondly - there is no judgemental 'God' with a big stick telling everyone what is Right and Wrong, and no criticism, rules or punishment and retribution if we step out of line. (No funnies about Moderators, please.)
Buddhism may well have been called many things - A philosophy, a Religion, a way of life - but to many it's also a Safe Haven.

Tosh

Karl Jung (my favourite 'Trick Cyclist' (psychiatrist)) said:

"Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you."

You can infer from that statement that 'being normal' is abnormal.

Tosh

I also like the Buddhist advice (was it Thich Naht Hahn?) of sitting at a desk with a pen and a piece of paper, and for five minutes, jot down every thought that enters your head.

After five minutes, look at the piece of paper...

They'll be the ramblings of a mad man!

federica

actually, that's called 'Free writing'.. it's used a lot by writers and creative mind to 'get the mental juices flowing'.... it's actually extremely therapeutic.....

Tosh

'.... it's actually extremely therapeutic.....

I've just tried it and ended up with a lot of names of people that God has told me I must kill, then I have to paint my car pink for some reason?

Onions keeps appearing on my paper too.

What's that about?

federica

Ah.
Pink represents the red onions you can buy for salads and pickles... they're sweeter, so they make you cry less.... so you paint your car (onion) pink, and run the people over, then you don't cry so much that you've killed them....

....is all my warped mind can come up with right now. :crazy:

andyrobyn

I had to look up Paxil - it was not a brand name I am familiar with; here in Australia Paroxetine Hydrochloride is best known as Aropax. Not the anti depressant drug in vogue here since some research reports of an increase in incidents of aggressive behaviour and a number of assaults having the drug implicated as a factor in the perpetrator quite a few years ago now.

federica

My husband was prescribed a highly effective drug used to absolutely turn people off smoking - it basically made every cigarette taste revolting, and completely undesirable - but the side effects were horrifying - and there were even further dire consequences if the person taking the drug was diabetic - as my H. is....
I can't for the life of me understand why doctors do not clearly outline the side effects to a patient, verbally, before prescribing the medication - i don't know how many people actually sit and read the accompanying leaflet.... not too many I would think....

Tosh

@Fedrica, I took that drug to help you stop smoking; it's UK name is Champix; it works on receptors in the brain so that you just don't want to smoke. I also thought I understood what depression was like through my drinking, but I didn't; not really; that is until I took Champix. WOW; it doesn't creep up on you, it just grabs ya. Luckily enough Mrs Tosh saw my mood change after about a week of being on the drug and told me to stop taking it. I was back to my normal chipper self after a day-or-two.

Champix is serious stuff.

In Canada I believe there were a bunch of people, families of people who committed suicide while taking Champix, taking the drug company to court.

federica

yep, that's the one.
Luckily I read the leaflet from end to end. No way was I going to let my H. take that. he already has a fiery temper.....

Telly03

I think we are an odd bunch, and I'll be honest, I had thoughts that perhaps Buddhism attracts the odd. I mean coming to this site, my first impression was that the political view, as a whole, is very liberal, not the normal random slice of society, and there seems to be a higher openly gay ratio, and people on meds... But doesn't it make sense that those who are clinging to a need to be viewed as "normal" in society would be the least likely to approach, with an open mind, a very non-mainstream religion?

I know I'm odd, but learning about Buddhism has helped me be ok with it... Life simply is what it is.

DairyLama

And if we are, what does that say about us and Buddhism?

Being normal is boring. Being Buddhist is much more interesting.

David

Well, I have to admit that until I got onto the internet, I didn't know any other Buddhists.

It seems to have gotten more popular in the west lately though. 20 years ago it was harder to get information.

genkaku

Hanging out with Buddhists here in the United States is a bit like hanging out with neo-Nazis in the sense that while the groups may be small in comparison to the entire population, still they are heart-felt and provide a norm as long as no one strays too far from a chosen group.

person

Hanging out with Buddhists here in the United States is a bit like hanging out with neo-Nazis in the sense that while the groups may be small in comparison to the entire population, still they are heart-felt and provide a norm as long as no one strays too far from a chosen group.

And they both use the swastika.

vinlyn

My husband was prescribed a highly effective drug used to absolutely turn people off smoking - it basically made every cigarette taste revolting, and completely undesirable - but the side effects were horrifying - and there were even further dire consequences if the person taking the drug was diabetic - as my H. is....
I can't for the life of me understand why doctors do not clearly outline the side effects to a patient, verbally, before prescribing the medication - i don't know how many people actually sit and read the accompanying leaflet.... not too many I would think....

I know what you mean. I just had a horrible time with Lipitor. Over 3 weeks I got the point of total exhaustion all the time and significant stomach issues. All my doctor had said was watch out for leg cramps and that they'd do blood tests in 6 weeks. Fortunately I am the type who gets right on the computer and reads up on anything I'm prescribed, so I started with a very low dose and still had the complications. Had I not stopped when I did I think the results could have been very serious.

I think doctors jump to the conclusion that "all people" will react to a drug the way "most people" do.

snGus

Well, I have to admit that until I got onto the internet, I didn't know any other Buddhists.

It seems to have gotten more popular in the west lately though. 20 years ago it was harder to get information.

Indeed internet is crucial for most of Westerns who seek information regarding the Dhamma. I myself would not be able to know what Buddhism is about if it was not for the internet.

snGus

Hanging out with Buddhists here in the United States is a bit like hanging out with neo-Nazis in the sense that while the groups may be small in comparison to the entire population, still they are heart-felt and provide a norm as long as no one strays too far from a chosen group.

Put that way, hanging out with Buddhists is a bit like hanging out with any other group (be it religious, political, sexual, etc), no matter how many members it have. So hanging out with Buddhists is not exactly like hanging out with Nazis in particular.

DairyLama

I myself would not be able to know what Buddhism is about if it was not for the internet.

In the olden days we had to travel to an actual building and meet people face to face..

vinlyn

Indeed internet is crucial for most of Westerns who seek information regarding the Dhamma. I myself would not be able to know what Buddhism is about if it was not for the internet.

I think it was more difficult in the past without the internet. But in the mid-1980s I could fairly easily find books about Buddhism (and did). I don't think I really began to personally discover much about Buddhism on the internet until maybe the last 10 years.

RichardH

The whole in-group out-group thing.. is unavoidable. The mainstream I was raised in had two assumptions. First there was a kind of crude neo-newtonian, mechanistic, world view that was absolutely invisible to everyone living inside that bleak bubble as little molecules of hope and fear. Second there was the assumption that if we just get our ducks lined up...one day.. everything will be o.k... maybe I'll catch that tail on the next go round. By taking refuge and joining a Buddhist in group, and having support and shared discipline in practice.. I was able to pop my self-created hell bubble of a universe that lost its mythical God and settled for distraction, and consumption.

Maybe the joke of Buddhism is that it starts out as vehicle for liberation, and turns out to be a pointless make-work project.. but even so I am very grateful.

snGus

I myself would not be able to know what Buddhism is about if it was not for the internet.

In the olden days we had to travel to an actual building and meet people face to face..

Indeed internet is crucial for most of Westerns who seek information regarding the Dhamma. I myself would not be able to know what Buddhism is about if it was not for the internet.

I think it was more difficult in the past without the internet. But in the mid-1980s I could fairly easily find books about Buddhism (and did). I don't think I really began to personally discover much about Buddhism on the internet until maybe the last 10 years.

Many people live in areas where Buddhist sanghas and Buddhist books are impossible to find. That's my case. The best I could find in the local shopping would be His Holiness the Dalai Lama's bestsellers, which is not enough for obtaining an actual knowledge of the Dhamma. I rely on the internet to find like-minded people and translations of the Tripitaka. Also the books about meditation that I am reading could only be found on the internet.

This is because Buddhism is not popular in many countries in the West...

vinlyn

I agree. The internet has been a boon to people seeking something different than what is mainstream in their culture.

Jason

They say it's crucial to ease off those SRI's gradually, or there can be bad side effects.

Yeah. I felt drunk and had double vision for a week straight when I stopped taking it. Had just started a new job, too. Good times.

David

Indeed internet is crucial for most of Westerns who seek information regarding the Dhamma. I myself would not be able to know what Buddhism is about if it was not for the internet.

I think it was more difficult in the past without the internet. But in the mid-1980s I could fairly easily find books about Buddhism (and did). I don't think I really began to personally discover much about Buddhism on the internet until maybe the last 10 years.

It was the late 1980s that I started getting into it and like yourself didn't get into the internet til the last ten years but I'll say wow, I really like this age of information thingy.

I could get books back then easy enough but the Sutras they got into were harder to come by. When I hear a teaching that covers a Sutra or two, I like to be able to reference them to see if I get the same meaning.

Today, that is very easy.

vinlyn

^^ Yes, I have to admit I was lucky in terms of being able to get books. I spent most summers in Thailand, so I could stock up there. And I lived in the Washington, D.C. area, so there were always bookstores that had somewhat of a selection on Buddhism.

Along with the stuff directly on the internet, Amazon has opened a whole new world for those seeking more obscure books.

genkaku

Maybe the joke of Buddhism is that it starts out as vehicle for liberation, and turns out to be a pointless make-work project.. but even so I am very grateful.

@RichardH -- Here! Here!

Mountains

are we -- as a group -- a bit on the...well, let me use the word "odd" side of things...or at least more odd than any other random group of people?

I can't speak for the rest of the forum, but for myself, I certainly HOPE I am!

minimayhen88

Odd - is entireley subjective, I'm sure those people we percieve to be most normal, are just those whom are perhaps more confident about their own 'oddities' - whereas Buddhism / Buddhists by their very nature are more questioning about their own imperfections and existences as a whole. All that I believe - to be normal - in that its natural, is compassion for oneself and others. Try taking St. Johns wort and accepting ones 'oddities' - so long as they don't cause you or others harm :-) x x x

RichardH

Maybe the joke of Buddhism is that it starts out as vehicle for liberation, and turns out to be a pointless make-work project.. but even so I am very grateful.

@RichardH -- Here! Here!

Yeah, well I'm no where near being finished with this make-work project. Idle hands are the devil's plaything and all. :screwy:

genkaku

Maybe the joke of Buddhism is that it starts out as vehicle for liberation, and turns out to be a pointless make-work project.. but even so I am very grateful.

@RichardH -- Here! Here!

Yeah, well I'm no where near being finished with this make-work project. Idle hands are the devil's plaything and all. :screwy:

@RichardH -- Pardon the language, but without the devil, we'd all be up shit's creek without a paddle.

Mountains

Or as one of my English teachers used to put it:

We would be upstream in the fecal tributary, lacking a hand held means of propulsion.

RichardH

Maybe the joke of Buddhism is that it starts out as vehicle for liberation, and turns out to be a pointless make-work project.. but even so I am very grateful.

@RichardH -- Here! Here!

Yeah, well I'm no where near being finished with this make-work project. Idle hands are the devil's plaything and all. :screwy:

@RichardH -- Pardon the language, but without the devil, we'd all be up shit's creek without a paddle.

Depends on the devilry, no?

DaftChris

There is no such thing as "normal" and what is considered "odd" varies from person to person.

Have no worries.

Dakini

Back in the '90's, there were a number of articles in the media saying that 70% of the general population has some sort of emotional/psychological issue. If that's true, then we're "normal". Maybe even more so than the gen'l population.

ZendoLord84

ur human.

federica

you know what they say:
One in 4 people has a mental problem.
If your 3 friends seem fine - then it's you.

Bear in mind, they're probably observing the same thing.