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Crossing into faith
Theswingisyellow
Trying to be open to existenceSamsara Veteran
Any insights or experiences when one's practices goes from intellectual understanding or comprehension to lack of a better word, faith?
I see and experience annata (as arisings) and annica as this constantly unfolding play- as experience arises it has already changed as its very being is inconstance. It has become a truth for me that is beyond my intellectualization.
Another thing is rebirth. I was a staunch defender and believer that rebirth past this very lifetime did not occur. Now I am not so sure, dependent origination, the 4NT's the wheel of Samsara- seems to have a different taste for me and makes more sense to me, call it my gut, when viewed through the lens of rebrith. I am still not so sure.
Not claiming any profound anything, just how I regard my practice at this time.
Thanks.
Todd
I see and experience annata (as arisings) and annica as this constantly unfolding play- as experience arises it has already changed as its very being is inconstance. It has become a truth for me that is beyond my intellectualization.
Another thing is rebirth. I was a staunch defender and believer that rebirth past this very lifetime did not occur. Now I am not so sure, dependent origination, the 4NT's the wheel of Samsara- seems to have a different taste for me and makes more sense to me, call it my gut, when viewed through the lens of rebrith. I am still not so sure.
Not claiming any profound anything, just how I regard my practice at this time.
Thanks.
Todd
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Comments
It's like walking along a stony path and finding a shiny gold coin, and putting it in your pocket.
you're not sure quite what you'll do with it, or what use it can be put to yet - but it's precious, valuable and worth having along....
I'm kidding.
no, really, I am.
the important thing is to not become precious about it, or feel that because you've taken a new turn in your journey, and come across a revelation, (what maybe some folks refer to as a mini Ahaaah! lightbulb moment....?) that you have to become more 'serious' in your approach, or adopt a more 'spiritual' stance...
I'm not saying you will do this, or that this is what is happening to you, (I'm not in any way disparaging your experiences) but while your mind 'elevates' it's equally important to make sure your feet stay firmly on the ground....
These experiences change you, for you, not for others....
do you see what I mean?
My partner says I have developed a firm understanding of the obvious.
"yeah well, that's obvious, any fool knows that!" (my terminology, nothing implied....)
It's all very well recognising the obvious. The secret is handling it and acting upon it, and putting it into practice.
My ex-H was looking at a specific book I'd asked him to read, and after a few pages, he put the book down, and said, "Yeah, well, that's obvious, anyone knows that, he's just put it into print and is marketing it to make money!"
so I replied,
"Well if it's so damn obvious, why didn't you write it all down and make make money then?"
"Well, I just didn't think about it..."
"Yeah, and therein lies your problem! You claim to see the obvious, but you don't do it, do you?"
(Sorry. I was on a bit of a bitch-roll, then.....)
Some folks could use some wings while others can use a little tethering to the ground.
Example
she has to hear things like...
"Most buddhist doctrine becomes obvious if you get out of it's way."
Cheers and support in trying times.
Support is there, at all times.
Still, I am unwilling to write it off completely. Faith for me is just the je-ne-sais-quoi of experience. Practice nourishes experience and experience trumps the usual "belief" or "hope" that can be associated with "faith."
No one who knows how to ride a bicycle runs around saying or thinking, "I believe I can ride a bicycle." They just know ... and ride.
Practice at anything builds experience and experience feels like something more than just hot air. A "knowing" arises and it's not just a hot-air "knowing." Right or wrong, good or bad, still it's something that is "known." The taste of tea is the taste of tea ... no big deal and yet, somehow, satisfying and useful to know.
Is that faith? I really don't know, but maybe it's something like that.
I know what you mean by "a firm understanding of the obvious." It seems my path has been a series of, "Oh, so that's what they meant?" and then realizing it was exactly what they'd been telling me all along. I was the one insisting there had to be a hidden, secret meaning.
@federica- Not getting at all serious with myself or others, if anything I get less fixed on views and tend to look at all views in a much broader more encompassing sense. This experience made me laugh and cry. Just came out of the blue, so it was important for me.
“These experiences change you, for you, not for others....”
I like this very much and I understand what you mean.
Ultimately this or any other experience is found in this very experience-its nature is impermanence.
@how-“My beliefs are pretty much what unfolds in that moment”. This is a wonderful way to practice, bare attention to what is. In this, I am reminded of a quote; “Each moment carries all of time” Can’t recall where I found that.
@genkaku- Maybe faith was the wrong word. Conviction may be more appropriate.
“Practice at anything builds experience and experience feels like something more than just hot air. A "knowing" arises and it's not just a hot-air "knowing." Right or wrong, good or bad, still it's something that is "known." The taste of tea is the taste of tea ... no big deal and yet, somehow, satisfying and useful to know”.
This sums it up quite well, thank you.
@Gui-“When does practice evaporate and living begin”? I would say living is the practice; our lives are the practice, every moment.
@Cinorjer- “For me, crossing into faith means starting to have faith in my own understanding and practice”-Maybe that’s where I am at. It’s where intellectualization recedes and the practice begins.
Much metta and love,
Todd
There's a difference between, "wow this makes since, I'm going to practice Buddhism."
And, "wow, I have just been struck with faith in this man's teachings, I'm following his dharma."
:thumbsup:
Unlike Christianity, it isn't the case that one simply has faith and *bling* makes it to heaven; there isn't going to be enlightenment without full realization. So it's faith in eventual achievement of the wisdom realizing emptiness--which implies further effort, practice, and merit-gathering on ones part, as opposed to faithfully waiting for a helpful zap from above.
And like you said they don't meet the same end.
Of course you can still give the thumbs-up either way.
Sounds like Tao.
Because in reality, the Dharma is not obvious at all whatsoever. In fact, it is subtle, deep, and difficult to understand.
That's the opposite of obvious. And that's coming from the Buddha's own holy mouth.
I really liked the anectode I heard recently from the Dalai Lama about encouraging his priest friend to not stray too far into the Buddhist concept of emptiness, lest it shake his advanced faith in a personal relationship with God. I believe it was in that same lecture that he mentioned realizing somewhat recently that he shouldn't get too attached to Buddhism, after hearing a scientist friend saying scientists shouldn't be overly attached to science or they run the risk of being overly biased.
So, as one might expect, the message continues to be, "Not too unfocused, yet not too attached." I guess that may be another difference I see--Christian faith is often encouraged to be 100% faith in God, whereas it seems to me Buddhist faith in anyone or anything is supposed to be constantly checked and examined by oneself. Yet it's clear that, while the Dalai Lama for example prefers the second kind of faith, he nonetheless has great respect for the first.
I do not believe there should be any distinctions between so-called Practice and Living.
It is one of the same.
Faith, Gnosis and refuge.
When we have little direct knowledge we trust or have faith in those who are knowledgeable, the sangha.
As we develop experience and gnosis (knowing) we increase in faith.
Eventually we have sufficient faith and knowledge to take shelter or refuge in the dharma as a source of knowledge.
I have my beliefs but to have faith in them?
It just doesn't seem too condusive to growth.
This means for Buddhists, that the worldly intellectual/commonsense understanding has to give way to a noetic understanding which is linked to transcendence, which in simpler words means: I am more than the sum of my biological parts.
If you want to call this faith, okay. But it has a different meaning in Buddhism than is understood in Christianity. Faith in Buddhism depends on establishing an initial congruence with the absolute (bodhicittotpada) which subsequently needs to be expanded and worked out culminating eventually in Buddhahood.