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A Dharma for the masses

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Comments

  • I think the only bit of discomfort I have left with all this is the thought that you feel something that's already out there, available to those who want it and are using it, should be hidden; isn't this instead an issue of establishing new programmes, not hiding or obscuring existing ones?
    It's not so much about hiding, but of not overtly promoting. If people were interested and curious about our ideas then by all means point them towards Buddhism... but be aware that regardless of how enamoured they may have originally been with your 'adapted' practice, the simple mention of Buddhism may put them off, which to me would be a bit stupid. So, it would have to be a careful and skilful introduction to Buddhism, but if possible and well done then this 'adapted' or 'abridged' Buddhism could serve as a wonderful gateway to wider Buddhist teachings. I suppose that i'm suggesting is that we create a 'sample teaching', something that everyone can relate to, everyone can practice, everyone can understand, but without the controversy that comes with the banner of being a religion.
  • SileSile Veteran
    edited July 2012
    It's not so much about hiding, but of not overtly promoting. If people were interested and curious about our ideas then by all means point them towards Buddhism... but be aware that regardless of how enamoured they may have originally been with your 'adapted' practice, the simple mention of Buddhism may put them off, which to me would be a bit stupid. So, it would have to be a careful and skilful introduction to Buddhism, but if possible and well done then this 'adapted' or 'abridged' Buddhism could serve as a wonderful gateway to wider Buddhist teachings. I suppose that i'm suggesting is that we create a 'sample teaching', something that everyone can relate to, everyone can practice, everyone can understand, but without the controversy that comes with the banner of being a religion.
    I feel that's exactly what the Dalai Lama does at every teaching, and if you're saying that we could expand that approach, I totally agree. I feel he doesn't have a fear, though, of what people will think - he's very straightforward: these are the things from Buddhism that can be shared ecumenically and are very much secular ethics, and then for those who are truly interested in Buddhism, there's no attempt to hide anything. We don't need to engineer people away from reality.

    I do agree with you that there is huge room for education, addressing misconceptions and disinformation--especially in this era, when multiple forces are working so hard to cast Buddhism in a bad light (and some to destroy it altogether). As always, my incentive is not to spread Buddhism at all, but just let the plain facts be known--some of which I think serve people beautifully, utterly secularly--and whoever wants to actually follow the Buddhist path, great, but education is always good regardless.

    I often want to tell my relatives, "But you don't understand - Buddhism isn't about being anti-God; no Buddhist is out there plotting to convert your children to Buddhism!" And we must be sure that remains the case, and even that the perception of that does not loom. I really believe strongly in HHDL's approach of starting every public talk by saying he doesn't encourage people to switch religions, unless they have really, truly studied and decided after a lot of reflection.
  • An idea I've thought about-----a reality show- seriously- with committed parent ( and maybe other one is just reasonable and open minded) and kids and all the good ways of communicating and being a functional happy family- demonstrating Reality instead of the awfulness of other reality shows- my friend laughed and said who would watch but I dunno..... Someday?
  • @mindatrisk, of course you should do what you feel is right. But just for a minute, step back and look at the reaction you are getting from a Buddhist website.
    If anything i'd say the reactions against validate my views... think of Jesus and the Jews. Opposition - even from your peers - is no reason to believe you are wrong... reasoned argument, however, is. But so far no-one has convinced me of why it is that I am taking the wrong approach. In fact, the strongest critics here simply made up what i'd said and then argued against their own concoctions! So no, the truth in a minority of one is still the truth... I just need to discover for myself if there is truth in my assertions.
    And that's how you lose world war II :lol:
  • robotrobot Veteran


    There is no set Buddhism, though. Buddhism already is sold in many different guises, because it has been interpreted in so many different ways, and utilised in so many different ways to enable various intentions and priorities. Buddhism is wonderful, i'm not knocking it, i'm just looking for a way to take the ideas to a larger audience to effect mass change on this planet. Buddhism is a very 'come to' religion, next to Christianity which is a very 'go to' religion. I suppose i'd like to combine the 'go to' attitude with the Buddhist techniques. Except our 'go to' would not involve preaching, but simply setting a noticable example.
    I would say that there is a set Buddhism. 4 noble truths. 8 fold path ect. The sutras, suttas, and commentaries have been interpreted as accurately as possible as near as I can tell. And it is utilized to end suffering.
    It seems to me that with the insight gained by studying Buddhism and practicing meditation one can begin to understand why a mass change is not in the cards for this planet.
    The bodhisattva ideal speaks to the need for steely determination and unbending effort without consideration for the time it will take to bring all beings to awakening. The change takes place in the individual first.
    If you have a knack for writing and can produce a book that interests people, like Tolle, then you may influence many people and turn a profit while you are at it. You may very well have the determination to pull it off. Good luck.
  • howhow Veteran Veteran
    edited July 2012
    @mindatrisk
    Instinctively my concern is for anyone establishing an identity as a Savior of others. It is one of the Ego's most seductive drugs. Just look at what folks will do today for their 15 minutes of fame.
    If your real motive is to just to manifest truth for others to see, then where does the evangelical zeal come from? You probably know what my view on this would be.
    It is hubris to believe that the "ism of a perfect religion or of you, could mitigate the inertia of anothers karma but this is what you seem to believe you can do.

    I don't begrudge your attempts to try, just fear what motivates it and therefore what its underlying transmission really is, that you do not seem to be aware of. Buddhism has numerous integral safeguards to help minimize this delusion from harming others. Successfully carving up Buddhism will only give more ego's an unrestricted playing field. I do not see how your offered compassion, will provide anything but it's eventual opposite.

    If I'm right, you are embarking on a path that will harm others and so should spend more time on a personal meditative enquiry to be sure that I'm wrong. If I am wrong, then the only thing that a diversion into a personal meditative examination will do, is better prepare you to meet your aspirations with harmlessness.
  • If you want to teach compassion, show compassion. Goes for any other Buddhist principles.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    @mindatrisk
    Instinctively my concern is for anyone establishing an identity as a Savior of others. It is one of the Ego's most seductive drugs. Just look at what folks will do today for their 15 minutes of fame.
    If your real motive is to just to manifest truth for others to see, then where does the evangelical zeal come from? You probably know what my view on this would be.
    It is hubris to believe that the "ism of a perfect religion or of you, could mitigate the inertia of anothers karma but this is what you seem to believe you can do.

    I don't begrudge your attempts to try, just fear what motivates it and therefore what its underlying transmission really is, that you do not seem to be aware of. Buddhism has numerous integral safeguards to help minimize this delusion from harming others. Successfully carving up Buddhism will only give more ego's an unrestricted playing field. I do not see how your offered compassion, will provide anything but it's eventual opposite.

    If I'm right, you are embarking on a path that will harm others and so should spend more time on a personal meditative enquiry to be sure that I'm wrong. If I am wrong, then the only thing that a diversion into a personal meditative examination will do, is better prepare you to meet your aspirations with harmlessness.
    And if I might add, @mindatrisk, what are your qualifications? Why should "the masses" listen to you when there are all those other books and websites and other media?

  • RebeccaSRebeccaS Veteran
    edited July 2012

    I don't begrudge your attempts to try, just fear what motivates it and therefore what its underlying transmission really is, that you do not seem to be aware of.
    Yeah, the power of denial/pride/arrogance is absolutely staggering. It can completely blind a person to their own motivations. It's an ego self protection mechanism - it just won't let the truth in because the truth could make it feel shame, which is really painful. So it keeps trying to avoid "the fall", that undoubtedly follows it, for as long as it can, blinding itself further and further in the process, wrapping itself up in itself up and ignoring everything around it because it's so trapped in the delusion of its rightness. It's a really interesting phenomenon. For an example, I always think of Hitler in WWII when he stopped listening to his generals which is the big reason (aside from evil being its own downfall) that Germany lost the war. Addicts are another great example of the mechanism in action.

    I really think pride is the number one spiritual block that we all face in one form or another.
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited July 2012
    I must've missed when @mindatrisk said it was all about him, because people sure are making it all about him. I thought this was supposed to be more of a united effort, anyone who wanted to help figure things out that might be helpful. :)

    Let's get back to the topic folks, either contribute toward or debate about the material (which isn't really here yet), not the member.
  • RebeccaSRebeccaS Veteran
    edited July 2012
    @cloud I think it's because he said submissions should comply with the requirements set by him, so questioning his authority and perception on the matter is valid because he's the one making the "rules".
    Maybe I will create a forum where people can go to offer their 'teachings' or their adaptations of Buddhist teachings to meet the specific requirements i've outlined?
    It's good to know who you're jumping into bed with :)
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    It's okay I won't say it again, it's not up for debate. :D
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think The liminal space Veteran
    I'm going to go back to the work the Mind and Life Institute is doing.

    http://www.mindandlife.org/

    They aren't promoting or teaching Buddhism, they are scientifically studying spiritual practices to understand what and why they are or are not effective at reducing suffering and promoting flourishing. In general, people who aren't particularly attracted to religion respond to scientific findings, they don't always follow them but they believe them. To my knowledge there's no talk of karma, rebirth, etc, all the aspects of Buddhism that can't be measured. The focus is on the things that can be substantiated.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Okay, I'll simply bow out of this thread. Good luck @mindatrisk.
  • ThePensumThePensum Explorer
    edited July 2012
    @mindatrisk: If anything i'd say the reactions against validate my views... think of Jesus and the Jews. Opposition - even from your peers - is no reason to believe you are wrong... reasoned argument, however, is. But so far no-one has convinced me of why it is that I am taking the wrong approach. In fact, the strongest critics here simply made up what i'd said and then argued against their own concoctions! So no, the truth in a minority of one is still the truth... I just need to discover for myself if there is truth in my assertions.
    Respectfully, bowing out too with vinlyn.
  • Yeah, me too. Good luck to everyone :)
  • SileSile Veteran
    I think we haven't clarified whether this is about changing the Buddhism that is currently reaching people, or helping Buddhist values reach people who haven't really had much contact with it.

    I agree with the observation that many people who haven't had much contact with Buddhism have misconceptions about it, and I think it's very cool to think of doing things like going on-air and talking about Buddhism--maybe thinking of some of the specific misconceptions we run into the most, and addressing them.

    I probably don't agree with the thought (if there is one) that the Buddhism currently reaching people is somehow flawed and doing a bad job; people come to the temples rather than the other way around, so they have an interest in Buddhism already, and there are always students and staff on hand to give beginners introductions to Buddhism. In my experience, these intros go very well, and people are very patient with newcomers of every possible stripe.

    If more people heard about my center, and came by to check it out, I would find that a good thing, since the teachings sort of speak for themselves, and the beginner class is phenomenal.
  • A lot of replies again. I really do not mind people challenging me and my motivations at all, I know it is off-topic, but i'm fine with it and welcome it, so it's upto the moderator. I want to learn and grow. I'm 29, nowhere have I said that I am perfect or that my motives may not be confused, but having defects and having confused motives does not mean that I cannot try to help people. If that was the standard then the world would be dead by now. I have to agree with Cloud that i've never set myself up as the teacher of anything, but invited people to consider some thoughts within the parametres I set out - which has nothing to do with being controlling, they were just the obstacles i'd observed and therefore the parametres I wanted to discuss within. Is that not how every discussion arises here, i.e. setting parametres?

    I am a very reasonable person. The fact of the matter is that if certain opponents here had offered anything like a reasonable argument against my suggestions then i'd completely consider them. Instead some people decided to simply make up what i'd said and then argue against that... what am I supposed to do with that? You want me to take onboard your thoughts and listen and learn and pay heed and be careful, and I understand all of that, but first argue with what i've actually said, not what you wish to believe i've said.

    So, to clarify... this discussion is about co-creating as a group a concise, understandable, relevant teaching on compassion and love for the masses that is influenced by Buddhist teachings. That is all.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran

    The core teachings are those that enable the arising of compassionate, kindly thoughts and actions. Like I said, you can take away karma teachings and you’ll still have Buddhism, you can take away impermanence teachings and you’ll still have Buddhism, you can take away meditation and you’ll still have Buddhism, but if you remove compassion then you have no Buddhism.
    From my perspective the core teachings of Buddhism are those that enable the arising of wisdom, which in turn lead to compassion and the cessation of suffering. So it wouldn't make sense to take out practices like meditation which are the basis for insight.
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    So, to clarify... this discussion is about co-creating as a group a concise, understandable, relevant teaching on compassion and love for the masses that is influenced by Buddhist teachings. That is all.
    Have you looked at the Bodhisattva ideal?
  • So, to clarify... this discussion is about co-creating as a group a concise, understandable, relevant teaching on compassion and love for the masses that is influenced by Buddhist teachings. That is all.
    Have you looked at the Bodhisattva ideal?
    Yeah mann! To be a Bodhisattva is my greatest aspiration. I have always thought that enlightenment could not be possible without the in-built desire to continue to help those still mired in maya. I don't see how enlightenment could be attained or experienced without such compassion. But I might be wrong.
This discussion has been closed.