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Karma

If you believe in quantum physics, which is part of the reason I'm a Buddhist, and you believe that the universe is infinite. If you believe in Sir Issac Newton"matter cannot be created or destroyed" and you believe Albert Einstein "E=MC2" (energy =mass) Then we are all beings that have been and always will be, then scientifically infinity equals infinite possibilities, So infinity of space and time = Infinity2. Then all possible situations have happened before, will happen in the future and are happening right now,and if this infinity2 rule is correct than Taoism is also supported by equal amounts of infinite differences, but also infinite similarities. Therefore karma disappears. Their is neither good nor bad. Right nor wrong. Light nor dark. If this is true then why must we produce good karma? Why is there a difference?

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Don't you notice a difference in your reactions, to your perception of 'good' and 'bad'?
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Colome said:

    So infinity of space and time = Infinity2. Then all possible situations have happened before, will happen in the future and are happening right now,

    But they've worked out an age for the universe and there is an arrow of time.
  • For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That is the rule of karma.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited October 2012
    There is a difference because karma does not actually disappear!
    FullCircle
  • BonsaiDougBonsaiDoug Simply, on the path. Veteran
    poptart said:

    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That is the rule of karma.

    personThailandTomlobster
  • I do not presume what i say to be true. I only presented an idea. I do feel a difference when i'm good or bad, but some people feel better when they do bad, is it not perception. Perhaps peace can only be found through good karma, however if Taoism is to be believed does that not equal to an equivalent of bad somewhere else, and without human knowledge, such as the animal kingdom where is good and bad? If we all turn into other creatures surely this is a relevant question. and thank you so far the answers they have been more than expected.
  • and the age of the universe a theory if i'm not mistaken. If the universe is currently expanding, wont gravity eventually bring it back into a ball to explode again and so on and so forth?
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    There are 3 theories as to what will happen to the universe. That it will keep growing/expanding forever. That it'll run out of energy and just stop expanding, or that when it reaches it's energy limits, it'll snap back like a rubber band that was over stretched.
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    Karma does not always work by time arrow, personally or independently. It is why I call on merit from my future self as a Buddha.

    OM YA HA HUM
    Bunks
  • Why must we produce good karma?

    Good question. There must be something telling us to choose good over bad. Perhaps we are afraid of the bad being able to catch up with us.
  • A person who fights the system, to free the oppressed is considered good karma by those who are fighting and those who are freed; but yet, the government he/she fights sees this person as a murderer and seditionist, so they send troops out to destroy the freedom fighters and return those freed back into oppression (but the opperssor does not see it that way, the oppressor sees it as the natural order. So, what Karma is created here? :om:
  • Bad karma for the oppressor, good karma for the rest.
    JohnG
  • karma works logically, if you smile to someone, chances are he will smile back.
    if everytime you see your neighbor, you curse at him, guess what will happen?
    Colome said:

    If you believe in quantum physics, which is part of the reason I'm a Buddhist, and you believe that the universe is infinite. If you believe in Sir Issac Newton"matter cannot be created or destroyed" and you believe Albert Einstein "E=MC2" (energy =mass) Then we are all beings that have been and always will be, then scientifically infinity equals infinite possibilities, So infinity of space and time = Infinity2. Then all possible situations have happened before, will happen in the future and are happening right now,and if this infinity2 rule is correct than Taoism is also supported by equal amounts of infinite differences, but also infinite similarities. Therefore karma disappears. Their is neither good nor bad. Right nor wrong. Light nor dark. If this is true then why must we produce good karma? Why is there a difference?

  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    Colome said:

    and the age of the universe a theory if i'm not mistaken. If the universe is currently expanding, wont gravity eventually bring it back into a ball to explode again and so on and so forth?

    The age of the universe is based on observation. Gravity isn't the only force, there is also dark energy - so currently the rate of acceleration is increasing ( red shift ).
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    lobster said:

    Karma does not always work by time arrow, personally or independently.

    Is this idea based on anything in the suttas or sutras?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    @Colome, nothing is ever black and white. There are too many factors of influence to determine Karma's workings It's one of the Buddha's Unconjecturables. By all means keep pondering if you want. You will never have answers, that will be in and of themselves, final definitive answers. It's better to leave such matters aside and concentrate on Right Practice.

    MODERATOR NOTE:I would advise that if this discussion begins to go round and round in pointless circles, questions, answers, which really do nothing to provide further insight, I will close it.
    There have been more threads on this topic than we could shake a stick at....After a while, it's a pointless exercise, save to simply have a thread to add a voice to, for the sake of adding a voice to.....
    ThailandTom
  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited October 2012
    Colome said:

    If you believe in quantum physics, which is part of the reason I'm a Buddhist, and you believe that the universe is infinite. If you believe in Sir Issac Newton"matter cannot be created or destroyed" and you believe Albert Einstein "E=MC2" (energy =mass) Then we are all beings that have been and always will be, then scientifically infinity equals infinite possibilities, So infinity of space and time = Infinity2. Then all possible situations have happened before, will happen in the future and are happening right now,and if this infinity2 rule is correct than Taoism is also supported by equal amounts of infinite differences, but also infinite similarities. Therefore karma disappears. Their is neither good nor bad. Right nor wrong. Light nor dark. If this is true then why must we produce good karma? Why is there a difference?

    Because to create good karma is to stimulate and nurture growth.

    Why would the process of natural selection go the route of curiosity? And the brain system develope the insinct for nurturing, compassion and even empathy?

  • DavidDavid A human residing in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Ancestral territory of the Erie, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat, Mississauga and Neutral First Nations Veteran
    edited October 2012
    @Colome;

    Not to be a pain but;
    Then all possible situations have happened before, will happen in the future and are happening right now,
    I see a flaw in logic with this statement. I think the nature of uniqueness is part of what makes infinity able to work. Things being repeated exactly/absolutely doesn't seem to go along with the nature of change or cause and effect.

    The way I see it, if looked at in light of the two truths, relatively, a whole can be divided infinitly... Absolutely, it is all happening right now.

    If a seed is watered or the conditions are right for it, a thing will manifest... If not, it stays hidden.

    While we do feel, and think, why not water the seeds condusive to compassion and logic?

    The main thing is that we are here, now.

  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    Not every idea or dharma is in the sutras - the Buddha only dealt with what was useful.
    The idea of non linear karma was expressed by Ibn-arabi
    who says the tree calls into being the seed, from which it springs . . .
    PrairieGhost
  • DairyLamaDairyLama Veteran Veteran
    lobster said:

    The idea of non linear karma was expressed by Ibn-arabi

    Who is Ibn-arabi?
  • lobster said:

    The idea of non linear karma was expressed by Ibn-arabi

    Who is Ibn-arabi?


    Not a gardener, that's for sure.
    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Arabi
    Spanish Sufi, known as the greatest master, Dr Maximus and a heretic.
    http://www.ibnarabisociety.org/articles/nostation.html
  • Colome:

    Philosopher Nancy Cartwright has written an interesting book: How the Laws of Physics Lie (notice the pun on the word 'lie'). Of main interest we learn that phenomenological laws are meant to describe whereas fundamental laws like those found in quantum mechanics (QM) are supposed to give a true account of lasers, benzene rings, or electoral diffraction patterns, etc. But do they? Nancy Cartwright argues, no they don't. While we have perfectly good, commonplace phenomenological laws in electrical engineering, for example, the fundamental laws of physics seem not so good. Cartwright observes:
    "When we look to the real implications of our fundamental laws, they do not meet these ordinary standards Realists are inclined to believe that if theoretical laws are false and inaccurate, then phenomenological laws are more so. I urge just the reverse. When it comes to the test, fundamental laws are far worse off than the phenomenological laws they presupposed to explain" (page 3).
    I am sure this is not pleasing to the public who believes in super strings and worships at the shrine of theoretical physics. We like to think QM has tremendous explanatory power. But what does explanatory power have to do with the truth? Cartwright and others ask. Not much. Fundamental laws are only true of their symbols and models. Again, are the symbols and models intrinsic, that is, can they give us an accurate insight into the nature of the thing before it is symbolized and modeled? I doubt it. Nineteenth century believed that you could understand a phenomenon or event by finding and developing an adequate model of it. But then a lot is missing if we go by this route.

    So what does this have to do with karma? Maybe nothing, but we can't reject karma based on our belief in QM's explanatory power. Karma/deed, we could say, is what we do that keeps us from seeing true reality. As long as we don't know the way which leads to the destruction of karma there is no truth for us. It could be that believing in QM is bad karma and that goes for the rest of theoretical physics.
  • Quantum physics predicted both dark matter and dark energy, something that we have now found evidence for and that explains a huge mystery of how the universe is behaving. The laws and forces that dominate for the sub-atomic realm are not the same ones that effect our macro world and in turn our laws do not exactly apply to the cosmic scale.

    But I don't think people can wave their hands and say "Quantum, you know!" when trying to excuse beliefs that do not confirm with our observed universe. You might as well say, "God, you know!" for all it really explains.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited October 2012
    Somewhat, it's just technology. Systems are simplified, but the system is understood enough to provide technology.
  • Cinorjer:
    Quantum physics predicted both dark matter and dark energy, something that we have now found evidence for and that explains a huge mystery of how the universe is behaving. The laws and forces that dominate for the sub-atomic realm are not the same ones that effect our macro world and in turn our laws do not exactly apply to the cosmic scale.
    Fritz Zwicky's dark matter (DM) came by way of classical mechanics, not QM. By some accounts Newton is the problem which is why DM disappears with Einstein's GRT (http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/astro-ph/0507619). This explains why nobody has found DM in our solar system—there never was any in the first place.
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