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Non-Buddhist partners?
Bunks
Australia Veteran
I am assuming there will be a number of people on here who, like me, have a partner who is not Buddhist?
My wife is a strict athiest who doesn't believe in the after life.
I don't speak about my practice much to her although she is pretty open minded. She has suggested she'd like me to talk more about it but I know she isn't particularly interested so I don't much see the point. I almost feel a little sheepish about it although I know I shouldn't.
She doesn't discourage me but I know she is a little surprised by my taking up the practice as I had never shown any interest in spirituality up until fairly recently.
I'd be interested to hear anyone else's story who's in the same boat?
My wife is a strict athiest who doesn't believe in the after life.
I don't speak about my practice much to her although she is pretty open minded. She has suggested she'd like me to talk more about it but I know she isn't particularly interested so I don't much see the point. I almost feel a little sheepish about it although I know I shouldn't.
She doesn't discourage me but I know she is a little surprised by my taking up the practice as I had never shown any interest in spirituality up until fairly recently.
I'd be interested to hear anyone else's story who's in the same boat?
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Comments
I mention this because when I just asked her about what she thinks happens to her after she dies, she said "rots."
I followed up asking her why she meditates and her one word answer was "sanity".
She is both Buddhist ( following the basic buddhist tenets, lay precepts & meditates) while also being a strict atheist.
"See you on the Other Side." (True story)
All in all, nobody gets in the way of my practice, but it is a constant challenge to talk to my family.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/mar/10/buddhism-atheism-hitchens
I never bother discussing spirituality in any great depth, with partners. I regularly converse with atheists. I prefer conversing with Buddhists.
I understand your predicament, I have have had similar experiences with my ex-partner. What I failed to see more clearly at the time is that compassion is the spontaneous responses to emptiness, and more specifically, the response to the delusions/wrong views held by others and their subsequent suffering. The trick is not to mistake piety/supercilious attitudes for compassion - I struggled with that for ages! :-) compassion for any beings should be a spontaneous arising, ideally, and perhaps it would be healthy to first become accepting and welcoming of what you do feel for her, be it anger, frustration, resentment etc. Or none of the above. What matters most is whatever we are experiencing, we acknowledge and see it as just what it is, a feeling, a thought etc, intrinsically empty within themselves.
That your mum is coming to you for advice is key here. She sounds desperate. Perhaps try and direct he to examine her own experience, and ask what percentage is "physical pain", and what percentage is the "mental suffering" that we shovel on ourselves on response that we shovel on ourselves in order to re-affirm the self/validate our experiences? Also, for both of you, I found this talk online - have a listen, its a must for people who are either living in chronic pain or involved with helping someone who is in that place (or, frankly, for anyone who has ever suffered, ever...lol!)
"Dying to Live" - by Vidyamala (Manchester Buddhist Centre)freebuddhistaudio.com/audio/details?num=OM636
In terms of bridging the gap, reflect perhaps that our victories are specific to us, and in many ways create barriers between others die to their individualistic nature, but as Michael Stipe (of alt rockers "R.E.M.") said, "Everybody Hurts"... Our suffering is THE fundamental unifier between us all, and was what caused the Prince Gautama to sek the truth in the first place (see. Noble Truths 1-3)
If I were you, I would consider telling her exactly how you feel in the most honest but skillful way possible, and suggesting she listens to this above talk (having vetted it and put it on CD for her first), as that you are feeling a lo of pressure to provide the kind of answers and insight that can only come with 30 years of practice and study - its what I do here, franky. Defer to the horizontal teacher-student relationship, if in doubt! :-) Finally, please dont fall into the same trap that I made for myself of seeing your practice as end unto itself, the Buddha specifically warned against this kind of stance/thinking as it sets up attachment to the practice. The real practice is in integrating your experiences on the cushions into your "real life" perceptions and actions. We must all try and practice the wisdom of "right-effort/motivation", one of the eightfold path branches. If we are practicing just so we can experience "bliss" or other enjoyable states of mind, then due to their unstable nature, we come back to earth with a bump and create future suffering for ourselves... For example, instead of meditation this week, I am spending 40 min every morning on this forum replying to posts as an alternative form of practice. I do "miss" my sitting, but practice a walking meditation en route to work, and find that by lessening my attachment to positive mental states, I gain deeper insight into my unpleasant ones.
@Bunks
Hi Bunks, and everyone else as well, naturally. 4 months ago, I left my partner due to irreconcilable differences created by me following The Dharma with an agressively anti-religious partner (she had a strick mormon upbringing). It was a very difficult decision. Leading this life is difficult, but it was vital to me putting the Three Jewels in the centre of my personal mandala. I wrote about my experiences on my blog, for thos who are interested?
thedharma-farmer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/the-porcelain-lotus.html
I recommend to be honest with those we love, share your spiritual insights with similar minded friends and with other, simply be the change you want to see. Dont worry too much about having your thoughts/feelings validated, jut be the change you want to see. Other will notice this and naturally want your help/advice... then you can suggest the odd bit here and there, if you feel qualified ;-)
Take care everyone, in metta and the Dharma, Jay x
Anyway, a few years ago I was an active alkie, I ended up in A.A. - a spiritual program of recovery - not too much unlike many aspects of Buddhism, and I also became interested in Buddhism too via A.A.'s 11 Step (which incorporates meditation).
At first it was strange - I felt here I was, this 'spiritual person' - and there she was, with her mundane mind and wants, leafing through catalogues and watching TV adverts, craving and wanting and gossiping and stuff. Here I was, this so called 'recovered alkie' and I felt that she wasn't good enough for me; that I deserved better. It almost sent me back drinking.
Anyway, I don't think like that at all now; I see Buddhism as something I incorporate into my everyday life - especially in all my interactions with other people. Yeh, there's some great philosophy, pujas, mantras, mala beads, sanghas we can visit, books we can read, courses we can study; but it seems to boil down to a meditation practise, trying to live an ethical life and being kind to others.
Mrs Tosh seems happier with the way I am now, though I still have a lot of room for improvement, but being 'Buddhist' or 'spiritual' when she's not doesn't cause any problems.
While my partner wouldn't call himself an atheist, he doesn't attend church and has no religious life beyond the residue of having a staunchly protestant mother. He'd check the Christian box if asked but God really doesn't have any presence.
I'm like Tosh in that I found my way to Buddhism through AA's spiritual path and a wish to practice meditation as a means of changing my habits of mind. So, my partner is aware of my spiritual life, understands why I pursue it, but is not interested enough to ask about it.
Every now and then I will read him something from a Dharma book I'm engrossed in and we will have a conversation about it, but it stops there. He has always been supportive of whatever I want to do and has never (openly) resented the time I spend away from home for courses, sangha days and such.
In fact, the only time he ever mentions my practice is when he thinks I need to do more of it because he thinks it isn't working ;-)
The path I have traveled has required large amounts of reflection on my actions and motivations past and present. If there was one aspect of spiritual life I wish we shared, it would be that willingness to look at the part we play, negative and positive. But he is a good hearted person so I don't dwell on it.
Later I got really tetchy with her (I can't remember why) and she pointed a finger in my face and said, "Remember, it's all your fault; internal, not external and NOTHING to do with me!"
That halted me in my tracks and shut me up, but inside I felt like I was going to explode!
Surprise often gives way to curiosity in turn giving way to acceptance.
But one of the things that a conversation like this make me think about is the seriousness with which uncertain students take their practice. For the longest time, I would not mention my interest in Zen to casual acquaintances or even friends. At the time, I felt that I should not burden them with such a topic. But the truth was that I was afraid I might go off on some kind of Buddhist rant ... talk too much, praise too much, blah-blah-blah too much.
Nowadays, when making friends, I mention it in the same way I might say I occasionally root for the Red Sox... it's just one aspect, one way to describe my interests and inclinations. I don't need to protect it and I don't need to sell it and I certainly don't need to debate it ... any more than I would debate a preference for fried eggs over scrambled.
I mention this not as a means of patting myself on the back but rather as a means of suggesting that there is no need to be afraid, no need to praise, no need to fret ... if you root for the Red Sox or do a meditation practice, that's OK. People may think it's a bit weird, but let's be honest -- it's fun to find out weird shit about others... it may even make them feel more sane. As Shunryu Suzuki commented when asked about the importance of Zen practice, "It's important, but it's not that important."
As you all heard before, I was a practicing Wiccan/Pagan for many years. Jerry never showed much interest in it himself, but he never disparaged or pooh-poohed my choice, either. He has some Native American heritage in his family, so there were some things we talked about and had in common in a "spiritual" sense of understanding nature and all that.
Since I've jumped the Pagan ship and chose Buddhism as a whole, Jerry is pretty supportive and interested. We talk about it sometimes, and things are fine. I don't expect him to be meditating or chanting any mantras any time soon.... but he's OK with it all.
He is totally fine with my Buddhist self, and while he doesn't study it, he knows the basics because we talk about it and I basically said "I think this needs to be the foundation for raising our family." and he agreed. I spend time with my Sangha and on retreats and he has no problems. He encourages me to go as often as I can.
If a spouse is asking about your beliefs, than talk! Just because she might not be interested in becoming a Buddhist doesn't mean she isn't interested in it in general, and it means she is showing an interest in something clearly important to you. That's part of being married, and it's important, IMO. I think sometimes we like to say "this is mine and you dont understand" but Buddhism is meant to be shared. I would be offended if I asked about an interest of my husband's and he ignored me because he figured I wasn't REALLY asking or wasn't REALLY interested. If I ask, I want to know, and being shut down feels horrible, especially when it comes from your life partner.
Thank you
As for our relationship: he fully supports me being a Buddhist, but he (basically being an atheist) does not share my views on subjects like the essence of God or rebirth. We have discussions concerning our personal faiths, but we never get in arguments or think the other is a fool.
Since the last time my in-laws visited (last fall, they live about 700 miles away and we usually meet in the middle for visits) I didn't have any Buddhist stuff around the house, but I do now. It makes me wonder what they'll think. They'll never say anything, but might choose to ask my husband about it afterwards. They are kind of passive aggressive that way, lol. They will probably wonder what kind of crazy hokum I'm wrapped up in, as they aren't people to explore anything outside of what they were raised as. They are very open people though, and I don't worry about it by any means.
Last weekend I finally did my refuge vows with my teacher and when I came home from the retreat I told my husband I was officially a Buddhist and he said "huh. I didn't know you weren't official before. Do we have to sacrifice anything?" LOL I said yes, a cabbage.
Enjoy the talk, when I was going through a Dharma-break up, it really helped me see through my emotions to my direct experience, rather than just reacting to my emotional responses to certain experiences. Skillful actions, like any skill (cooking, carving, painting etc), are to be honed and acquired over time with patience and repeated efforts. Being a Christian doesn't make you able to walk on water, so do not set unrealistic standards only achievable by an enlightened being.... But we'll get there together, eventually. It's all play and no work for the Bodhisattva in each of us... ;-)
@Karasti - Sadhu!! Congratulations, very happy for you! See above to make sure you don't fall into the traps I made myself when I became ordained as a Mitra (taking the precepts etc) - boy, that was a tough time to be me, hehe!
Keep up the stunning work my Bothers and Sisters,
Jay x
And yes, we are out to our families about our relationship but not about our religions. They are perfectly fine with us being gay (oddly enough), but if they were to find out about us being non-Christian, that would be an issue. They still think we are Christians.
I'm glad you have the freedom to be out about your relationship and I hope in time you feel safe to be so about religion, too. It's challenging, for sure. When a person discovers they are gay (I am not, but my sister and many friends are so it's been discussed a lot) it comes down more to who you are as a person where as religion to many people represents an actual act of rejection. It's one of the reasons I raise my kids to learn about a lot of beliefs, so that one day if they choose differently than me, they won't be afraid they are rejecting me in some way.