Relationships and Buddhism

Hijop

Hiya

Given that a part of Buddhism is reducing your attachments to things...

Is sex a 'thing' you should be reducing attachment to? (My boyfriend is a non-ordained Buddhist)

I'm talking about sex in a committed relationship.

Is it expected that if one partner is a Buddhist and the other isn't that there wouldn't be much sex between them? Or at least a reducing amount?

Thank you.

fivebells

If you're not meditating, it doesn't matter very much. It's not like a Western religion where you make a contract with a higher power.

Jeffrey

I don't think that you need to reduce the amount. Just observe if it is grasping/craving or not. I guess it is hard to see. So I would say experiment. The precepts don't make the world less fun. On the contrary they reveal better places to look such as in love rather than a drink. So with your experimentation I think you can intuit what is needed in the sex life.

RebeccaS

You could probably meditate and have sex at the same time. Never tried it, but I reckon it's possible

Sex is fine.

fivebells

It's possible, but you don't orgasm until you stop meditating and start grasping for the experience. (So far, in my experience.)

karasti

Every relationship has its boundaries, including for things like sex. There is no sort of rule that you should reduce your sex frequency. Especially if you are happy with how things are, and reducing it is going to make you think about what you are missing all the time. Enjoy the time you are together, and let it be at that. If you are thinking about sex all the time, then you need to readjust your thinking, not even necessarily your sex habits. But if you are content, why change anything? Sex is not, in and of itself, some bad thing that leads you off the Buddhist path. Not unless you make it so and allow it to control your life that way. On the contrary, I found my intimacy level with my husband actually increased because I was satisfied in more areas of my life rather than pouting over dumb things or laying in bed too busy thinking about stuff rather than spending time with him.

RebeccaS

fivebells said:

It's possible, but you don't orgasm until you stop meditating and start grasping for the experience. (So far, in my experience.)

That's interesting... Beats naming presidents and picturing relatives though

Wisdom23

I would say its fine as it is in a loving relationship and no one is gettin harmed

TreeLuvr87

The key is in knowing the difference between trying to reduce your desire for sex and your attachment to sex. It's normal for us to desire sex. Biological, even. It's troublesome when our attachment to sex becomes stronger than is skillful. When we're upset because our partner hasn't wanted to have sex for a week (even though they're going through some difficult times mentally), when we're physically agitated because of our mental obsessions with sex, when we find ourselves unable to go for a period of time without sex and resort to lying or manipulation to get some.

I'm Buddhist and my partner is not, but we both love sex and have a little bit pretty often. Being Buddhist hasn't affected my sexual relationship with him, other than helping me enjoy it more as I'm learning to be more immersed in the present moment and sensory feelings.

BhikkhuJayasara

Hijop said:

Hiya

Given that a part of Buddhism is reducing your attachments to things...

Is sex a 'thing' you should be reducing attachment to? (My boyfriend is a non-ordained Buddhist)

I'm talking about sex in a committed relationship.

Is it expected that if one partner is a Buddhist and the other isn't that there wouldn't be much sex between them? Or at least a reducing amount?

Thank you.

there is no SHOULD.. it just happens naturally with practice. I've gone through periods during practice where I had complete dispassion with regards to sexual activity, this lasts for varying periods etc.. but it is not a "vow" I made, it is not a force of will.. it's dispassion through insight.

If you or your partner have this insight and this dispassion, there is not much that can be done, but you shouldn't feel the need to be like " oh well I'm buddhist no sex for me".. vows are made to be broken.. natural dispassion is a fortress

DaftChris

Short answer: hell no!

Slightly longer answer: Buddhism teaches against misconduct; stuff like rape, insect and assault. If it is between those who are committed, I see nothing wrong with sex. Especially since it can be more than a Physical experience.

My partner and I still have roughly the same amount as when we first started our relationship. I don't see it as a hinderence or an attachment.

wisdombeing

i don't think there's anything wrong with sex - just our attachment to it. so as long as we are aware that we should not crave it and spend an inordinate amount of time on it, we should just enjoy it with our partners and not feel guilt-ridden (we are not christians after all)

Invincible_summer

fivebells said:

If you're not meditating, it doesn't matter very much. It's not like a Western religion where you make a contract with a higher power.

I don't even think the Bible says anything like "God didn't want the Israelites to have sex. Ever."

Deepankar

Buddhism teaching is peace, it never dictates that love is wrong. I just a book mentioned about a very honorable monk during japan emperor era very long time ago. This emperor wanted this monk to married his princess otherwise, he would devastate all monasteries in japan. He went back laybudhist to marry her, and spread buddha amitabha tradition that was receiving very delightful result across japan then. It still can be felt from the distinct temples in memorial of him that marked the tradition in japan then. So awesomically amazing. May all wonderful love and peace.

lobster

So awesomically amazing

Just like sex

footiam

Hijop said:

Hiya

Given that a part of Buddhism is reducing your attachments to things...

Is sex a 'thing' you should be reducing attachment to? (My boyfriend is a non-ordained Buddhist)

I'm talking about sex in a committed relationship.

Is it expected that if one partner is a Buddhist and the other isn't that there wouldn't be much sex between them? Or at least a reducing amount?

Thank you.

I remember one of the Buddhist five precepts is to abstain from illicit sex. Is your sex with your boyfriend illicit? If not, the amount of sex probably does not matter. It is a question of whether you and your boyfriend could take it.

Light101

A fun little suggestion for sex, try to do it mindfully, it brings love and sharing into a whole new realm. Just a thought.

taiyaki

I've given this a lot of thought. I don't view sex as a bad thing, rather it too can be integrated into meditation.

But its the conclusion of sex or spilling the seed.

There is a noticeable drop of energy afterwards. So one could learn how to orgasm without ejaculation and thus not worry about dropping in energy levels.

But this is my problem. It may not be a problem for other people.

But it is generally recognized in tantra that sexual energy when not used is distributed towards the higher faculties.

Just some thoughts.

robot

taiyaki said:

I've given this a lot of thought. I don't view sex as a bad thing, rather it too can be integrated into meditation.

But its the conclusion of sex or spilling the seed.

There is a noticeable drop of energy afterwards. So one could learn how to orgasm without ejaculation and thus not worry about dropping in energy levels.

But this is my problem. It may not be a problem for other people.

But it is generally recognized in tantra that sexual energy when not used is distributed towards the higher faculties.

Just some thoughts.

I could be wrong, but wasn't the notion that ejaculation caused a loss of energy debunked sometime ago? Perhaps energetic sexual activity, like any excersize, is tiring and a rest afterwards is in order.
Not being an expert I am probably way off here. Why would replenishing a few ounces of semen be more draining than producing saliva or bile for the body?

BhikkhuJayasara

actually mindfulness during sex kind of ruins the mood, as it were.. because you realize what it truly is, rather then the added mental layers of love and sensual desire and expectation(because you begin to see through and beyond these)... especially when you do the mindfulness of the body viewing it as bones, skin, organs, etc...

two sacks of organic compounds contacting(sense organ + sense consciousness + object = contact) in a phenomenon with little use other then procreation of further organic compounds.

Jeffrey

I think mindfulness of the sensual desire is taken as the focal point rather than mindfulness of a 'meat sack'. Mindfulness just means awareness. Although Buddha presented the four blah blahs as a practice that is not the only time/thing when we have awareness.

BhikkhuJayasara

Jeffrey said:

I think mindfulness of the sensual desire is taken as the focal point rather than mindfulness of a 'meat sack'. Mindfulness just means awareness. Although Buddha presented the four blah blahs as a practice that is not the only time/thing when we have awareness.

being mindful is both in body and mine.. mindfulness of sensual desire based on mistaken perception ... when you practice and contemplate these things.. even during sex this mindfulness comes to you.. piercing through the veil of sensual desire to the truth. This has been my experience anyways and it has lead quite naturally to dispassion.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nyanaponika/wheel026.html#des

(b) The loathsomeness of the body
Herein, monks, a monk reflects on just this body, confined within the skin and full of manifold impurities from the soles upward and from the top of the hair down: "There is in this body: hair of the head, hair of the body, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, pleura, spleen, lungs, intestines, bowels, stomach, excrement, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, lymph, saliva, mucus, fluid of the joints, urine (and the brain in the skull)."

— MN 10


By bones and sinews knit,
With flesh and tissue smeared,
And hidden by the skin, the body
Does not appear as it really is...
The fool thinks it beautiful,
His ignorance misguiding him...
— Sutta Nipata, v.194,199

JosephW

Take Buddhist teachings to better your life, not to restrict you from things you enjoy... If you have a dependency upon sex then you might have a problem anyways, this is something that should probably be restricted and healed, I have never seen someone that is mentally dependent upon sex that is mentally healthy... But with Buddhism, it is not something where, oh I am Buddhist let me start restricting things I enjoy, I personally interpret the Buddhist view to not be mentally dependent upon things, and I apply that to sex as well...

Jeffrey

Focusing on loathesomes is not our only Buddhistic acivity. We can also focus on beauty. For example Jon Kabatt Zinn goes through a guided meditation of eating a raisin and appreciating the experience.

Another example of a Buddhist acitivity is metta meditation. In that capacity we are focusing on the good. Tonglen would be more like how you describe.

BhikkhuJayasara

Jeffrey said:

Focusing on loathesomes is not our only Buddhistic acivity. We can also focus on beauty.

you don't need to focus on either.. just mindfulness of the moment.. you come to see the truth of the matter through that.

I'm not saying people should think of skin and bones during sex.. I'm saying the practice brings natural dispassion as you begin to see the truth in things .

karasti

@robot ejaculation causes a rush of hormones, including prolactin. Prolactin is well known to cause sleepiness. So, it is not necessarily that a typical sex session and ejaculation is so tiring that it saps the body of energy, but moreso the release of the cocktails that makes a man quite sleepy and relaxed feeling afterwards. Thus the plethora of complaints from women that men just roll over and go to sleep instead of cuddling after.

robot

Yes I see. That was my experience. So sex before meditation is not on. After a good night sleep things are back to normal.
I was thinking more of the notion that regular sex causes a sustained depletion of energy. Which was the way that I read Taiyaki's post.

taiyaki

It may be just a link my mind makes.

But it does seem the spilling of the seed has consequences on the subtle body.

Now even speaking about the subtle body is a no no in the western, materialist point of view.

But like all things its just an opinion after all.

Renouncing sexual activity does serve a function in Kundalini yoga and the spiritual practices that deal with energy. That energy is channeled upwards through the central channel and released outwards through the crown chakra and that funnels downwards and rests at the heart chakra.

Thats why tantra is taught to not spill the seed and to be able to orgasm and even full body orgasm without ejaculation. Because the white seminal fluid is necessary for spiritual attainment and clarity.

But that may be out dated information and my view/perception may be placebo because I believe in such ideas and they correlate with my experience thus even fortifying my stance on it.

But I could be completely wrong. Hahahaha.

Zero

taiyaki said:

...white seminal fluid is necessary for spiritual attainment and clarity.

There are many facets to alchemy - the greater majority are misleading.

Invincible_summer

An interesting study that states that love is merely a sequence of "micro moments."

sukhita

Just came across this verse (Dhp284) today -

As long as even the slightest underbrush of desire
Between man and woman is not cut away,
For that long, the mind is bound
Like a suckling calf is to its mother.

Since monastics are prohibited in the vinaya from such relationship, could this be refering to the lay people (or both, perhaps). Anyone knows?

BhikkhuJayasara

sukhita said:

Just came across this verse (Dhp284) today -

As long as even the slightest underbrush of desire
Between man and woman is not cut away,
For that long, the mind is bound
Like a suckling calf is to its mother.

Since monastics are prohibited in the vinaya from such relationship, could this be refering to the lay people (or both, perhaps). Anyone knows?

notice the quote has nothing to do with physical action and everything to do with mental action. A monk can still have desire just like a lay person and said monk is also bound like a suckling calf

sukhita

That makes sense... thanks.

Nevermind

Jayantha said:

actually mindfulness during sex kind of ruins the mood, as it were.. because you realize what it truly is, rather then the added mental layers of love and sensual desire and expectation(because you begin to see through and beyond these)... especially when you do the mindfulness of the body viewing it as bones, skin, organs, etc...

two sacks of organic compounds contacting(sense organ + sense consciousness + object = contact) in a phenomenon with little use other then procreation of further organic compounds.

You're such a romantic.

Jeffrey

The truth of sex is not black and white. It can be spiritual friendship even. It doesn't have to be an oily ointment that you hide in the back of your medicine chest. No need for shame, though I do see a point in mindfulness. Yet mindfulness of the senses always produces good feeling. That's why it's hard to renounce because the more you renounce the more pleasure comes. And then you think in every aeon you have been a creature of desire how often you were seduced by fleeting states of mind.

I say just see a spade a spade and see our sexual natures as part of suchness,

BhikkhuJayasara

Nevermind said:

Jayantha said:

actually mindfulness during sex kind of ruins the mood, as it were.. because you realize what it truly is, rather then the added mental layers of love and sensual desire and expectation(because you begin to see through and beyond these)... especially when you do the mindfulness of the body viewing it as bones, skin, organs, etc...

two sacks of organic compounds contacting(sense organ + sense consciousness + object = contact) in a phenomenon with little use other then procreation of further organic compounds.

You're such a romantic.

romance is the opposite of reality and full of dukkha. If you begin to see reality, romance with all forms of sensual desire fades, that is called dispassion.

Nevermind

Jayantha said:

Nevermind said:

Jayantha said:

actually mindfulness during sex kind of ruins the mood, as it were.. because you realize what it truly is, rather then the added mental layers of love and sensual desire and expectation(because you begin to see through and beyond these)... especially when you do the mindfulness of the body viewing it as bones, skin, organs, etc...

two sacks of organic compounds contacting(sense organ + sense consciousness + object = contact) in a phenomenon with little use other then procreation of further organic compounds.

You're such a romantic.

romance is the opposite of reality and full of dukkha. If you begin to see reality, romance with all forms of sensual desire fades, that is called dispassion.

Romance is not supposed to be real, Jayantha. It's like magic, full of mystery, excitement, and wild exaggeration. It's picturesque falsehood. But there is also love (the opposite of reality and full of dukkha :clap: ).

BhikkhuJayasara

Nevermind said:

Jayantha said:

Nevermind said:

Jayantha said:

actually mindfulness during sex kind of ruins the mood, as it were.. because you realize what it truly is, rather then the added mental layers of love and sensual desire and expectation(because you begin to see through and beyond these)... especially when you do the mindfulness of the body viewing it as bones, skin, organs, etc...

two sacks of organic compounds contacting(sense organ + sense consciousness + object = contact) in a phenomenon with little use other then procreation of further organic compounds.

You're such a romantic.

romance is the opposite of reality and full of dukkha. If you begin to see reality, romance with all forms of sensual desire fades, that is called dispassion.

Romance is not supposed to be real, Jayantha. It's like magic, full of mystery, excitement, and wild exaggeration. It's picturesque falsehood. But there is also love (the opposite of reality and full of dukkha :clap: ).

the only love not full of Dukkha is metta

chela

Although I did get a sense of how vile the human body is in this thread, I did not get a sense of the fact that the human body is ultimately amazing. Can we not look at the body much like Thich Nhat Hanh looks at a tangerine? Actually, I think @Jeffrey was on it with the raisin meditation. Full experience.

Tosh

taiyaki said:

It may be just a link my mind makes.

But it does seem the spilling of the seed has consequences on the subtle body..

Yes, it seems there is medical evidence that it reduces the risk of prostate cancer in men:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3072021.stm

footiam

Hijop said:

Hiya

Given that a part of Buddhism is reducing your attachments to things...

Is sex a 'thing' you should be reducing attachment to? (My boyfriend is a non-ordained Buddhist)

I'm talking about sex in a committed relationship.

Is it expected that if one partner is a Buddhist and the other isn't that there wouldn't be much sex between them? Or at least a reducing amount?

Thank you.

In the Buddhist 5 precepts for layman, it is stated that one should not be involved in illicit sex. It does not say to reduce its amount. I suppose then you can give your all.Do you have that much to give?