Snobbery

Bunks

Ok, confession time. I'm a snob.

I always denied it but this practice has made me face up to it.

I look down on people who drive hotted up cars.

I look down on people who watch commercial television programs.

I look down on people who own bull terriers.

I look down on people who smoke cigarettes (even though I used to).

I look down on people who have the Southern Cross tattoo'd on any part of their body or as a sticker on their car (it's an Australian thing).

I could go on.......

I moved to a working class area a few years ago (wanted a small mortgage) so I am now faced with my snobbery on a daily basis.

I actually see my moving here as a good thing as it is giving me the opportunity to begin practising equanimity. I am really going to try. Any tips?

federica

Try wearing socks with sandals - it's a great leveller....

I am a snob too, in many ways, so don't sweat it. Recognise it, and laugh at yourself. Where will snobbery get you when you're old, infirm, incontinent, and your nurse has a Southern Cross tattoo on their arm?

Gui

Make some friends. It's funny, I have some rich friends who look down on people who drink domestic beer and eat at burger joints and shop at discount box stores. And I have some poor friends who look down on people who drink imported wine and eat at expensive restaurants and shop at fancy boutiques. We're all snobs. lol

Bunks

federica said:

Try wearing socks with sandals - it's a great leveller....

I am a snob too, in many ways, so don't sweat it. Recognise it, and laugh at yourself. Where will snobbery get you when you're old, infirm, incontinent, and your nurse has a Southern Cross tattoo on their arm?

Hahahahaha.....that made me laugh out loud. Bravo!
:thumbsup:

I inherited it from my parents. My two older brothers are bigger snobs than I am......

One (of the many things) I do love about living where I do is that I can go up the street with my tracksuit pants, flip flops and an old t-shirt on and I fit right in!

Bunks

Gui said:

Make some friends. It's funny, I have some rich friends who look down on people who drink domestic beer and eat at burger joints and shop at discount box stores. And I have some poor friends who look down on people who drink imported wine and eat at expensive restaurants and shop at fancy boutiques. We're all snobs. lol

Yes! I can relate to that.

My wife has been ill and all she felt like for dinner last night was a burger and fries. We drove down to the local McDonalds and dined in. I found myself sitting there and judging all the people around me e.g. look at these people in their old car bringing their kids here to eat? Disgraceful!

Hang on! I'm sitting here with my wife and daughter too...

karasti

I wear my pajama pants to the grocery store, if snobs have a problem with it, no skin off my hide over it, LOL. I live in a pretty redneck area though, so considering I'm not there in my thong bathing suit, I'm pretty much in line.

Sometimes it's hard for me too, to face what I realize about myself when practicing. I have great compassion for certain people, and animals, and struggle greatly with it with some people who are close to me. I practice, and meditate, I do metta and tonglen and I still have not been able to stop the "oh god, now what" irritation that crops up the second I hear my grandma's voice on the phone asking me to drop what I am doing and come help her right now with some mundane task. She is currently mad at me because I could not come while my husband was on lunch (he didn't come home for lunch today) to get her wreath out of the attic. I can't bring our son to her house to do such things because of a lack of proper hygiene is a health risk to him (long story) so she has to wait until I have someone home to stay with him, and that just makes her quite unhappy. I wish I could just smile into the phone and deal with it better, but I just get immediately irritated.

Anyhow, you are not alone in realizing things about yourself due to your practice. I do note that it helps for me to contemplate the things I do (putting myself in her place, paying attention to how happy she is that I am there with her etc) The irritation is minor and fleeting, as opposed to 2 years ago when I would stew in crabbiness over having to do chores for her. So, it does seem to improve. I might not get to the place of unconditional compassion before she passes, but I figure at least I am helping her, and visiting with her. I know I won't regret that time once she is gone.

Being able to think thorougly about walking in someone else's shoes does help me a lot. When some random person irritates me because of how they are living, driving, etc I think of scenarios or reasons for why they are doing this, and it eases my snob feelings. Someone driving too slow for my liking because I'm running late? well, maybe first I shouldn't be running late, second perhaps they are a new driver, perhaps they are having an emergency, perhaps they don't drive often, or their car is having a problem. I don't know the reasons for what they do, so it's not up to me to judge them for it. Running through that in my mind does help.

zenff

Fortunately I’m not a snob.
Snobs are fools.

RebeccaS

We're all snobs. There are a billion types of snob. Intellectual snob, spiritual snob, material snob. We can't help it We just love feeling superior.

federica

You know, I used to be conceited.

Then I became Buddhist, worked on myself, and now - ?

Now - I'm absolutely perfect.

federica

karasti said:

I wear my pajama pants to the grocery store, if snobs have a problem with it, no skin off my hide over it,

We had a guy turn up at our store today, 'dressed' in something we call a "onesie".
He bought a four-pack of beer and some cigars.
he looked a right twit.

And fortunately, I wasn't alone in thinking so.

MaryAnne

There is a big difference (IMO) between being a snob in thought, and ACTING on that snobbery in how you treat /mistreat people.
If one allows snobbish thoughts to manifest into snobbish actions or words which are hurtful and negative towards others.... then one would really suck.
THAT kind of snobbery is nothing to be proud of or flippant about.

RebeccaS

MaryAnne said:

There is a big difference (IMO) between being a snob in thought, and ACTING on that snobbery in how you treat /mistreat people.
If one allows snobbish thoughts to manifest into snobbish actions or words which are hurtful and negative towards others.... then one would really suck.
THAT kind of snobbery is nothing to be proud of or flippant about.

Yeah. How people treat the waiter or the girl at the checkout is a MASSIVE clue about the type of person they are.

federica

I've heard that. I think it's quite true.....

andyrobyn

Bunks said:

federica said:

Try wearing socks with sandals - it's a great leveller....

I am a snob too, in many ways, so don't sweat it. Recognise it, and laugh at yourself. Where will snobbery get you when you're old, infirm, incontinent, and your nurse has a Southern Cross tattoo on their arm?

Hahahahaha.....that made me laugh out loud. Bravo!
:thumbsup:

I inherited it from my parents. My two older brothers are bigger snobs than I am......

One (of the many things) I do love about living where I do is that I can go up the street with my tracksuit pants, flip flops and an old t-shirt on and I fit right in!

Some useful thoughts there from federica.

But really, what Aussie refers to thongs as flip flops ???

RebeccaS

Who can refer to them as thongs with a straight face?

andyrobyn

In my little part of Australia, we still can !!
In fact, to most people I know it is perculiar to refer to that type of underwear as a thong, here they are g-strings

RebeccaS

I would be mortified if I was in Aus and someone asked me where I got my thongs from! Even autocorrect is a little embarrassed by it and keeps changing it to "things"

federica

And In Aussie-land, sellotape is durex.
In the UK, durex is a brand of condoms.....

still_learning

I look down on snobs.

karasti

LOL @ federica, I have a pair of footed pajamas (what we call them) but they are only for the coldest days of the year where even my electric blanket isn't enough. My pajama pants are just fleece drawstring pants (like yoga pants kind of) and then a tshirt. Generally it's because it's 5:30am and I had to get up to run my kid into town, and needed a coffee so I ran in in my pajamas to get one. If they don't like it, oh well, they should be glad I didn't wear boxer shorts, lol.

When I was a kid, flipflops were thongs. They are not thongs any more! Thong is just one of those words I don't like. Like "moist" or "panties" it's like finernails on chalkboard to me to hear, or say, those words.

Tosh

I used to be an 'inverse snob'; I looked down on middle class type folk; those who came from privileged backgrounds, went to the right school, had the right education, made the right career choices, spoke with a non-regional accent; that kind of thing.

And having spent 17 years in the army, where many of the 'Ruperts' and 'Rodneys' (the Officers) were mostly of this ilk, I had further reasons to dislike them.

But on joining A.A. my attitude towards these 'middle class types' has somehow changed without any effort. I think it's because I mix with many of them (alcoholism is no respecter of class), and I even sponsor an ex army officer, who went to public school (they're not public; you need to be rich to send your children there), who has a degree in law, and some executive type job now. I'm friends with a Jumbo Jet pilot - we go running together occasionally (another alkie), and I also share an A.A. homegroup with a Viscount and his wife, and another extremely wealthy lady (old money type) who lives in a 500 year old mansion that has passed through her family.

I guess the reason for my attitude change is that underneath all that egoic stuff is a human being, just like myself; people who have exactly the same struggles with life as myself. Before I knew this, I guess they were aliens to me.

karasti

middle class folk come from privileged background? I guess it depends how you define middle class, lol. We are technically middle class but certainly not privileged by any means, when comparing the US that is.

I enjoyed your story. I understand the logic of it, after all it's what Buddhism is all about, but I still struggle with fully grasping it and being able to apply it to all areas. Sometimes I hear rich people complain about this or that and the first thing I think is "#upperclassproblems" lol. Sad that sometimes I think in hashtags. Anyhow, no matter the struggle, they are yours and just as problematic for a rich person as a homeless person. A problem is a problem regardless of who you are, and money can't solve all problems, obviously. But as Richard Bach says, there is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in it's hands.

MaryAnne

@Federica

We have a local breakfast only restaurant in town called "Shut Up & Eat!".... cooks and waiters are dressed in their best pajamas, and customers are encouraged to come in to eat in their PJs as well! I believe they give you 10% off if you're in jammies....

I haven't eaten there myself, but I hear their food is excellent and the two women who own/run the place are a real hoot. I'll have to check it out one day.

RebeccaS

I like being a snob. I'll grow out of it, but I spent so long being poor it feels good to be a bit of a snob sometimes.

I always feel guilty about it, though. I go to the mall and I'm all looking at people's shoes and purses and I just feel so mean!

But I used to wear shoes from grocery stores so I feel like I'm allowed to get it out of my system a little.

I think that we get over these things with time. We grow and we evolve. I bet if I asked you, @Bunks, how you feel about things in 5 years you'd feel totally differently about it.

Jeffrey

I don't care what people think I care how they treat me.

Bunks

andyrobyn said:

Bunks said:

federica said:

Try wearing socks with sandals - it's a great leveller....

I am a snob too, in many ways, so don't sweat it. Recognise it, and laugh at yourself. Where will snobbery get you when you're old, infirm, incontinent, and your nurse has a Southern Cross tattoo on their arm?

Hahahahaha.....that made me laugh out loud. Bravo!
:thumbsup:

I inherited it from my parents. My two older brothers are bigger snobs than I am......

One (of the many things) I do love about living where I do is that I can go up the street with my tracksuit pants, flip flops and an old t-shirt on and I fit right in!

Some useful thoughts there from federica.

But really, what Aussie refers to thongs as flip flops ???

I've lived in a few different countries over the years and just decided flip flops were the best name from a.universal point of view.

Kiwis call them jandals (Japanese sandals)!

lobster

I actually see my moving here as a good thing as it is giving me the opportunity to begin practising equanimity. I am really going to try. Any tips?

It depends how serious you are.
My teacher was the sort of person no one wanted to be seen with. Everyone looked down on him. Dressed in old clothes. Looked very weird. Behaved even weirder.
We judge people on superficialities because we have no comprehension of their interior worth. They are all potential Buddhas. No less.
Some are enlightened and we pass them in the street, without even noticing. Dress a traveller in abbots robes, in a temple, spouting platitudes and they become profound. We are dear friends - hypocrites. :eek:

It is one of the reasons we have to humble ourselves. Life humbles us for sure.
http://lojongmindtraining.com/sectionSummary.aspx?sectionID=0

music

I honestly don't see how anyone can be snobbish. It makes little sense. I understand anger, hate, anxiety etc. - certain situations may provoke these reactions, like a hurt child may find social situations producing a lot of anxiety. But snobbery? I just don't get it.

Zero

music said:

snobbery? I just don't get it.

It's the condition that occurs when you're not comfortable in your own skin and you adopt behaviours to deal with the constant anxiety - the behaviours are usually adopted with little thought as to their wider consequence and generally they are behaviours that allow you to 'fit in' or be less conspicuous in your particular niche - they almost always allow a neat mental loop which resists self-examination, often reinforced with reliance on external tangible objects....

....then you see someone displaying behaviours that you yourself could not display which challenge your view and undermine the false security you've surrounded yourself with.

Solution: Slowly, ever so slowly, extract your head from your @ss...

seeker242

Great topic IMO!

Brings to mind the 6th and 7th of the "10 Grave Precepts" of the Bodhisattva.

6. Fusetsu-shishu-kazai kai
Precept of not discussing the faults of others.

Self nature is mysterious and wondrous. In the Dharma law of Non-Judging, the concept of judging does not arise.

7. Fujisan-kita kai
Precept of not praising oneself while abusing/blaming others.

Self nature is mysterious and wondrous. In the Dharma law of Non-Differentiation, the concept of Self/Others does not arise.

A lot has been written about snobbery or conceit by dharma teachers. The Buddha spoke about it a lot too.

This is the advice he gave to his son about it:

"Meditate on the Signless [4] and get rid of the tendency to conceit. By thoroughly understanding and destroying conceit [5] you will live in the (highest) peace.http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/snp.2.11.irel.html"

So snobbery and conceit is eradicated by meditation practice he is saying it seems.

Another good article on it. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/various/bl014.html

Of course most everyone engages in conceit and snobbery. It's considered one of the higher 5 fetters of the mind. It's just part of being a human being! But, it's root is delusional and should deliberately be rooted out. Just because it's "natural" does not mean it's good. If you really think about it, you could even go so far as to say it's an abomination of reality!

Another good article. http://www.zolag.co.uk/Cetasikas/html_node/Conceit.html#Conceit

Couple of things that stood out to me in that last article:

Conceit is like a “lunacy”, we are foolish when we have conceit. Conceit is akusala (hindrance to realization of enlightenment) dhamma, it is impure. When there is conceit there is also ignorance which does not know the true nature of realities.

Conceit is eradicated only when arahatship has been attained. The sotāpanna (who has attained the first stage of enlightenment), the sakadāgāmī (who has attained the second stage of enlightenment) and the anāgāmī (who has attained the third stage of enlightenment) still have conceit. Even those who have eradicated the wrong view of self and who have realized that what is called a “person” are only nāmas and rūpas which arise and fall away, may still cling to nāma and rūpa with conceit. Conceit has been accumulated for so long. One may think “one's own” nāmas and rūpas better, equal or less than someone else's, even though one has realized that there is no self.

All those who are not arahats, even the ariyans who have not attained arahatship, have to develop satipaṭṭhāna (mindfulness) until all akusala dhammas have been eradicated. This reminds us to be aware of what appears now, even if it is conceit. The akusala dhammas which arise can remind us of the need to continue to be mindful even though we do not see much progress.

It's skillful to view snobbery and conceit as a shameful act IMO. We should all be ashamed of such thinking!

{And what is the treasure of shame? There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones feels shame at (the thought of engaging in) bodily misconduct, verbal misconduct, mental misconduct. This is called the treasure of shame. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/wings/part3.html#part3-a-passages S126

music

Zero said:

Solution: Slowly, ever so slowly, extract your head from your @ss...

Sounds like gymnastics gone wrong, lol.

Ficus_religiosa

You can't tell from people's clothes or friends, who they are.. Let me share a terrific story I was told by the chief attorney of a large TV-station (I interviewed her for the law-school magazine):
Once, when she was still a young lawyer, she went out with a couple of friends. One of those friends was quite heavy. Some young men sitting at the bar were teasing the fat girl. The lawyer told them to shut it and let her friend be. One of the men answered "Hah, you can just crawl back to the conveyor belt", implying she was a working class woman and that he thought lowly of that.
The following Monday, the lawyer had job interviews as part of the interview team for the law firm. Guess who came through the door - the young, rude man from Friday evening. The lawyer took his hand and said "Nice to meet you again".
He didn't get the job.

zenff

Ficus_religiosa said:

He didn't get the job.

And some people still doubt the working of karma!

karasti

Often times people who have been fat but lost the weight, judge people who are still fat, previous nonsmokers just smokers (as the OP stated) because they figure "if I can do it, so can you. When I wasn't doing it it was because I'm lazy, therefore it means you are lazy because you aren't doing it." We have a hard time separating our differences from anyone else, and we can't see things any other way. Maybe the fat person has already lost 100 pounds and you should be congratulating them. Maybe they have a health issue that impacts their weight. Would you still mock them for being fat if you realized they are that way because they have Lupus and have been on steriods for years? (one of our neighbors has exactly that problem, gained almost 100 pounds between ages 8 and 14). Well that guy who has lupus is happy with his life, because living with a life threatening chronic disease leads him to truly live in the present and he doesn't care if you want to judge him. Maybe they made the choice to get off the yoyo rollercoaster and just be happy with who they are. Maybe you tried to quit smoking 20 times before you succeeded, and maybe this other person has tried 19 times. You just never know. Learning how to truly be able to walk in someone else's shoes is an invaluable practice.

RebeccaS

^^^ Ex smokers are about a billion times more annoying than non-smokers

zombiegirl

I've heard it said that you cannot hate that which you do not love. I think you could also phrase it as, "You cannot hate that which you do not know." It means that in order to have such strong feelings about a subject, you have to know it intimately. For example, ex lovers can so quickly go from love to hate. Building on what @karasti pointed out, ex smokers are harsh on smokers, those who lose weight are harsh on those who have not, etc.
For me personally, as of late, I've been struggling with some fierce adult acne bringing me right back to puberty. Ugh. There have been times within the past few months that I don't even feel like I can leave the house, I feel so terrible. But one thing I've learned is most people don't really feel the abhorrence I imagine in response to my acne, this is mostly my own construct because it's something that I'VE struggled with in my life. I'M the one who judges people with acne because it's something I've hated on myself so much. It's been a pretty humbling experience and I never realized I felt so strongly about it until I hit puberty round 2, lol.
I also am bothered by people without straight teeth because, you guessed it, I have crooked teeth. It's like their imperfection serves as a mirror to my own and I hate being reminded of it. When I was a kid, all I ever wanted was braces but we were too poor. A funny contrast to everyone I've ever known with braces that hated them, lol.

I think being a snob is normal, but what really matters is what you do AFTER your mind produces that original judgement. Do you allow it to continue or do you consider the real source of your detest?

karasti

not really related to the topic, but if you are capable of affording them now, you can still get braces. A good friend of mine is 37 and after a lifetime with bad jaw and teeth problems, she finally has a good enough job that helps pay for it, and she can afford the rest, and she got her jaw reset and has a full set of braces right now. She's thankful for them even now! Funny the topic came up, my 10 year old asked me today if he could get braces because he thinks they are cool, lol. Oh how times have changed.

I think your post is right on. We judge in others what we don't like in ourselves, or what we fear in ourselves (ie thin people judging fat people because they are afraid they'll be fat).

Jason

Bunks said:

Ok, confession time. I'm a snob.

I always denied it but this practice has made me face up to it.

I look down on people who drive hotted up cars.

I look down on people who watch commercial television programs.

I look down on people who own bull terriers.

I look down on people who smoke cigarettes (even though I used to).

I look down on people who have the Southern Cross tattoo'd on any part of their body or as a sticker on their car (it's an Australian thing).

I could go on.......

I moved to a working class area a few years ago (wanted a small mortgage) so I am now faced with my snobbery on a daily basis.

I actually see my moving here as a good thing as it is giving me the opportunity to begin practising equanimity. I am really going to try. Any tips?

Just allow yourself to be as open and honest about the things you think and perceive no matter how unpleasant they may be to admit. In my opinion, honesty is the most important virtue because it's through being honest that we're able to truly grow emotionally, spiritually, etc. When we're open to being wrong, to making mistakes, to our prejudices, to new ideas, etc., we open ourselves up to the arising of insight. Moreover, I think we potentially learn more from our mistakes than we do from anything else. I hear that's why hospitals ask potential brain surgeons questions like "Have you ever made a mistake" and "If so, what would you do differently next time" to determine who'd most likely make a good surgeon and who wouldn't.

Metallica

Bunks said:

Ok, confession time. I'm a snob.

I always denied it but this practice has made me face up to it.

I look down on people who drive hotted up cars.

I look down on people who watch commercial television programs.

I look down on people who own bull terriers.

I look down on people who smoke cigarettes (even though I used to).

I look down on people who have the Southern Cross tattoo'd on any part of their body or as a sticker on their car (it's an Australian thing).

I could go on.......

I moved to a working class area a few years ago (wanted a small mortgage) so I am now faced with my snobbery on a daily basis.

I actually see my moving here as a good thing as it is giving me the opportunity to begin practising equanimity. I am really going to try. Any tips?

lol, it's true ese, I think alot of us living in the West has this problem. haters gon hate huh?

Southern Cross is the health insurance company I am with, you are a pretty loyal customer for getting a tattoo of them!!!

Bunks

Can I just say that I don't "hate" anybody.

Looking down on and judging someone is different to hating them IMO.

Metallica

Well, we always like to forgive ourselves for our own faults and get disgusted at other's faults.

I am not being a hypocrite, just because I also commit this, doesn't mean I can't bring this behaviour up.

music

zenff said:

Ficus_religiosa said:

He didn't get the job.

And some people still doubt the working of karma!

That's not the working of karma. That's the working of the hr dept.

Ficus_religiosa

music said:

zenff said:

Ficus_religiosa said:

He didn't get the job.

And some people still doubt the working of karma!

That's not the working of karma. That's the working of the hr dept.

I think it's quite the karma - bad actions, bad result. What if he was polite and charming that evening... Then he would have had a head start over the other applicants

MaryAnne

Bunks said:

Can I just say that I don't "hate" anybody.

Looking down on and judging someone is different to hating them IMO.

Looking down on someone, judging them, and feeling superior, simply because they are not like you in some way, may not be the same as 'hating them' - but it sure isn't cultivating the Buddha nature within, is it?

I guess I'm missing something here, because I don't see how anyone claiming to be Buddhist or interested in becoming one would think that judging others is somehow "OK" - or that there are justifiable reasons to 'look down' on people.
Like..... as long as you admit it, it's not so bad? Seriously?

I'm not talking about judging those who hurt others, break the law or do things that are unacceptable by our own or society's civility standards... so let's not even go there.
I'm talking about judging people for the way they look, their (lack of) education, their gender, their sexual preferences, their economic status, their lifestyle choices, etc.

I kinda thought Buddhists had a rather clear guideline on that sort of thing....

TreeLuvr87

Acknowledging your snobbery is a great place to start if you're trying to let go of the illusion of separateness.

I get snobby when I feel insecure about something, but rarely can see that truth in the moment.

lobster

Faults can be subtle . . . for example we may look down on snobs . . . The important thing is acknowledging and trying to change the obstacle into a practice aid . . .

RebeccaS

MaryAnne said:

Bunks said:

Can I just say that I don't "hate" anybody.

Looking down on and judging someone is different to hating them IMO.

Looking down on someone, judging them, and feeling superior, simply because they are not like you in some way, may not be the same as 'hating them' - but it sure isn't cultivating the Buddha nature within, is it?

I guess I'm missing something here, because I don't see how anyone claiming to be Buddhist or interested in becoming one would think that judging others is somehow "OK" - or that there are justifiable reasons to 'look down' on people.
Like..... as long as you admit it, it's not so bad? Seriously?

I'm not talking about judging those who hurt others, break the law or do things that are unacceptable by our own or society's civility standards... so let's not even go there.
I'm talking about judging people for the way they look, their (lack of) education, their gender, their sexual preferences, their economic status, their lifestyle choices, etc.

I kinda thought Buddhists had a rather clear guideline on that sort of thing....

One time, my husband and I went shopping in our sweatpants. I was after a new pair of boots and on my hunt we frequented a few of the more upmarket shoe stores. The looks we got from some of the sales people? Omg. This one guy saw us walk in, and literally turned his back on us so he didn't have to help us. Because we were in sweat pants.

So it's not that it's OK, but I mean, the guy was stupid. It didn't hurt me, he just hurt himself - I went to a different shoe store and a much nicer sales girl got the commission for my boots.

But this was someone's actions. He could have really hurt someone with a thinner skin than me.

But the mean thoughts? First of all, there's not much we can really do about them. They come, they go, we don't ask for them... As long as we're aware that they're not true, that's about the best we can do. You can't change your thoughts, they just happen. As you grow and evolve, your thoughts grow and evolve with you and I think that's what happens with most people.

Judgementalism is just a form of infantilism, which we do, eventually, grow out of.

karasti

@MaryAnne I wouldn't say it is ok to do, by any means. But I also don't think that just because I've started practicing Buddhism that magically all of my faults just disappear. I could lie and pretend I don't have those thoughts, but what good would that do? I do work really hard on it, on changing my thought patterns and my habits, and it does work, but it takes time. I judge people far less than I used to, including criminals and those I just plain don't understand.

@RebeccaS I would disagree that we can't change our thoughts. We can. As it is said, we have both seeds of good and seeds of bad, and that includes thoughts. You can start to train the mind one direction or the other, and you don't always just have to accept a thought. They do just happen, but you can retrain even what thoughts "just happen" and make the bad thoughts more and more dormant by not giving them attention.

Jeffrey

I find that it is a paradox training the mind. The more you resist thoughts the more they persist, whereas equinimity relaxes one so that the mind is in a calmer more easy going state.

RebeccaS

Hmmm... I don't think that ignoring them is the same as changing them. To me, that ignoring them, therefore lessening their impact, is an aspect of growth and evolution and what happens to the thoughts is an effect of that.

Also, the frequency and intensity of the thoughts may lessen, but the content is exactly the same. Whether you have the judgement thought twice a day or twice a month, the thought is still the same. Whether you ignore it or feel guilty about it, the thought is still the same.

I would argue that it's a different process to just changing thoughts, though perhaps they amount to the same thing at the end of the day.

Jeffrey

Equanimity is not ignoring. But ignoring is the near enemy. Near enemy means that it is like it but is a negative distortion. The far enemy would be excitement.

You welcome all of your thoughts and allow them to be there. You are not your thoughts. So you can say, 'oh snobbery... I've been thinking like that way a lot. How interesting'. This is a mahayana approach to make friends with the mind and treat it as a blessing rather than trying to control what is there.

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