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Dalai Lama's Attitude Regarding Self Immolation
AllbuddhaBound
Veteran
A friend of mine believes the Dalai Lama refuses to condemn these self immolations that have been occurring. I have heard estimates of anywhere from 70 to 80+ immolations have occurred, and he says not one word of condemnation from the Dalai Lama.
Is anyone here aware of his stance on this issue?
Is anyone here aware of his stance on this issue?
0
Comments
Short answer: He says it's very sad but refuses to condemn the practice. It's a political answer forced on him as the secular head of a political movement. Your friend is right.
Now, my personal opinion is that he should condemn the practice, as the spiritual head of his Buddhist sect. But even if he wanted to, he's not about to do so because of the reasons you state. All it would do is get him attacked for siding with the Chinese and somehow dishonoring the people who have already committed suicide. Politics, in other words. I've been around long enough to know how it goes. But I wasn't asked for my personal opinion.
My own personal opinion also is that people need to stop looking at the Dali Lama and seeing only an enlightened Buddha. He's the head of state. He is, in fact, a Priest King. His words are as carefully monitored and controlled as any President or politician. He seems a nice guy, compassionate, and certainly learned his Dharma. But he's stuck in a role that demands politics must come before anything else. I feel sorry for him.
He hasn't endorsed the suicides, and he hasn't condemned them. Neither his former administration nor the Chinese government nor any onlookers can prove his silence is political; it's just as possible, and just as likely, that it's anti-political.
I agree that it likely has a lot to do with China. They are constantly blaming all the problems in Tibet on him, saying it's not THEIR fault people are self-immolating, but the HHDL's fault because he doesn't tell them not to. Always trying to shift blame for their poor actions onto the HHDL. He is doing the smart thing by not engaging them. If there is one thing the HHDL is, it's smart, and I don't think we can pretend to armchair quaterback the situation that is going on there, and the details that are at play, especially when the only information we get is from an unreliable media.
You can understand the multiple factors, from cultural beliefs to Chinese occupation, that cause somone to set themselves on fire, and still not condone the practice.
You know what rings a loud alarm bell with me? That people try to call it "self-immolation" instead of what it is: suicide or killing yourself. When we lie to ourselves, we try to find words that ignore the truth.
There is something deeply, deeply disturbing in the claim that suicide as political protest is in any way, shape or form a valid Buddhist practice. The tragedy is compounded by suspecting the people killing themselves have been taught that it's the noble thing to do and the Dharma tells them to do it. The HHDL actually said that, well, if they were not doing it out of anger or hatred for the Chinese, then it was good karma. Say what? "Do not kill sentient beings." What part of that doesn't refer to yourself?
Yes, we can make ourselves feel better that they're killing themselves and not the Chinese. But it's the same thinking that tells the suicide bomber he's going to Heaven for blowing himself and a half dozen people up. It's so similar, it makes me wonder, is Buddhism any different at all from the other world religions, or are we just fooling ourselves and rooting for our home team?
Here is a statement from the Dalai Lama back in July:
“Now, the reality is that if I say something positive, then the Chinese immediately blame me,” he said. “If I say something negative, then the family members of those people feel very sad. They sacrificed their… life. It is not easy. So I do not want to create some kind of impression that this is wrong.”
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article3617428.ece
http://twocircles.net/2012dec02/growing_voices_solidarity_tibetans_among_chinese_netizens.html
"I am quite certain that those who sacrificed their lives with sincere motivation, for Buddha dharma and for the wellbeing of the people, from the Buddhist or religious view points, is positive. But if these acts are carried out with full anger and hatred, then it is wrong." (HHDL)
I mean, I understand what he's trying to say. And I understand the difficult position he's in. People who are Tibetan Buddhists say the Dalai Lama isn't like the pope, where he can just order these be stopped even if he wanted.
Another troubling concern is that while these started out with older monks and I was told they could be following a tradition where death while in a deep meditative state is supposed to bring good karma to the people, but the example they were providing spread to young monks and then lay people doing it as a simple act of protest.
I feel sometimes when I look at the world, I'm like that guy way back during some riots who yelled out "Can't we just get along?" while the mob just wanted to hurt someone.
I suppose it might be akin to euthanasia then - thinking that if it is carried out with sincere motivation for Buddhadharma and for the wellbeing of the animal, it could be at least discussed whether this is acceptable. Difficult issues.
Certainly I think it could be said that a self-immolation carried out in hatred generates a different karma than one carried out in love. So if indeed there is a difference, the difference at least can be explored. If you truly believe that by self-immolating you may save future lives, that is a hard call. What if you prevent the slaughter of your town by drawing attention to it just in time. Certainly, many people in history have engaged in this kind of sacrifice. Very hard to analyze.
I'm afraid I simply don't have your worshipful attitude when it comes to people like the Dalai Lama. Respect and honor yes. I have that in spades. He's had a tough life and has worked hard for his people. But my Buddhism isn't Tibetan Buddhism, with it's esoteric, hidden-wisdom way of insisting lay people aren't capable of questioning the actions and words of their betters in the temples. I was taught to question even the Masters, as long as I actually listened to the answers. But then to make up my own mind.
@Cinorjer
My sangha (TB) it's said that you should be honest. That doesn't mean you will never be told off by the guru because they are honest also. You just treat every situation as a dharma gift which is entirely 180 degrees different from not questioning as engaging open-mindedly and considering everything with fresh eyes is the opposite of not questioning.
W.T.F....
People do think things and thinks it's right because other people's reaction. If you make it sound like approval then it becomes approval.
The "oppressor's action justifies oppressed's every action" is not in accordance with ultimate reality. Thats not how to you solve a difficult political situation.
seriously, how many of you are willing to immolate yourselves?!!! If you are willing, why?!
Who did more good for equality?! Martin Luther King Jr or Malcolm X?
A few days ago, a poster in another thread who doesn't live in the US, shared some critical opinions about the US. More than one person told them "if you don't live here, you can't really know and understand." The same is true for any other country.
It is not difficult to say this because Buddhists recognise the value of our Human life for use Spiritual use and benefiting others and there is no benefit in killing ones self as these people are doing, China doesn't change because some Tibetans set their selves on fire change can only come from within their political system.
Intentional, self induced suffering is like sitting in the agony of a full lotus and expecting to be at ease . . .
Imposing suffering on ourselves for the sake of others, for example by feeding tigers with our own body, is a self indulgent act. Not skilful, not pragmatic, wasteful, causing increased suffering. Bodhisattva stories for children . . . Sometimes tigers and their cubs die and mothers do not mourn their self sacrificed 'bodhisattva' children. A skilful Dalia Lama made it clear that wearing tiger skins (a fashion statement in Tibet) was not skilful. A skilful Dalia Lama is friends with the precious jewels known as enemies. Some enemies are masquerading as friends of Tibet.
Personally I believe he might tell people to burn, internally, not literally . . . they might then come up with skilful ideas . . . in another lifetime or two . . .
Nobody said it would be easy. Someone even mentioned it would be dukkha . . .
From what I've read, the two peoples have been friends before in between conflicts. They share an ancient and fascinating tradition, especially when it comes to Buddhism as it was introduced across the Silk Road.
that being said.. the monks doing the immolations are breaking one of the first principles of dhamma practice.. non-harm. I am not judging or condemning them in any way and can only give them my loving-friendliness , but I cannot see how the practice is skillful or beneficial to themselves or others.
i think he is a brave..even noble , figure thrust into a position that he is temperamentally unsuited to. He is politically naive and as a result has been manipulated by both the Chinese government and by those elements in the Tibetan goverment in exile in Dharamsala who are obsessed with power.
This has led to his failure to condemn roundly the profound emotional blackmail and sheer waste of precious human life inherent in this and other acts of self immolation.
It has also led to his autocratic response to those Tibetan groups..in the Nyingma and Gelug in particular who refuse to accept his authority over them, an authority btw never claimed by DL's before the Chinese invasion.
When I commented on seeing so many judgemental comments about people who feel forced to end their life in this way, I did not mean to be judgmental about 'people having a moral view about the efficacy of suicide'. but about people having a moral view on behalf of other people whose situation is only partially known to them. I'm not second-guessing anything, just reading what people say, but we would have to second-guess the monk's situation and the DL's decisions in order to judge them.
But I'm being pedantic I suppose. I appreciate that the motive is concern and better shut up.
Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable
"These four imponderables are not to be speculated about. Whoever speculates about them would go mad & experience vexation. Which four? The Buddha-range of the Buddhas [i.e., the range of powers a Buddha develops as a result of becoming a Buddha]... The jhana-range of one absorbed in jhana [i.e., the range of powers that one may obtain while absorbed in jhana]... The results of kamma... Speculation about [the first moment, purpose, etc., of] the cosmos is an imponderable that is not to be speculated about. Whoever speculates about these things would go mad & experience vexation."
Monks after him also set themselves on fire before the reigns of power were handed over to a military dictatorship that had the sense to leave the Buddhists alone and concentrate on the war against the Communist north. Which they lost eventually and the Buddhist temples were then suppressed by the Communist government, but the Communists suppressed the Catholic minority also so at least they had company this time.
It would be nice if life was simple enough to allow us to divide everyone's actions into good and bad based on obvious outcomes. Life isn't like that. Most actions and the consequences are a mixture of good and bad and nobody knows if anything made a difference in the long run. All I know is, there has to be a line we say should not be crossed in the name of justice or freedom or good versus evil, and it's so easy to justify any action when you see the world in terms of us and them.
And as he has been thrust no matter how unwittingly, into the position of being a spokesman for Buddhadharma the DL should be saying in public what he is saying off the record on the subject.
MN 21 PTS: M i 122
Kakacupama Sutta: The Simile of the Saw
"Monks, even if bandits were to carve you up savagely, limb by limb, with a two-handled saw, he among you who let his heart get angered even at that would not be doing my bidding. Even then you should train yourselves: 'Our minds will be unaffected and we will say no evil words. We will remain sympathetic, with a mind of good will, and with no inner hate. We will keep pervading these people with an awareness imbued with good will and, beginning with them, we will keep pervading the all-encompassing world with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.' That's how you should train yourselves.
as for the DL. Perhaps spreading the message that no one person is a spokesman for Buddhadharma, especially one such person who only represents 3% of the world's Buddhists, is the best thing here, although I realize it's a bit of a pipe dream hehe. Even I as a child was first introduced to Buddhism through the DL.
people in the west are use to having that "one" figure, like the pope, who can tell people how to live.. I was drawn to the fact that one of the Buddha's last words when asked who would lead them after he died, was that the Dhamma is your teacher.. I hold that close to my heart.
Most people agree suicide isn't a good option for any problem. The human rights groups are the ones giving attention to the self-immolators in an attempt to sway governments into stepping in. It is a very sad situation, but since last February 2009, 90 people have set themselves on fire over the Tibet situation, including at least 8 children. In that time, more than 120,000 Americans have also committed suicide. One life is one life, one is not more important than the other. But looking at the #s suicide is more of a problem here, than there, and in the world, we rank like 47th for suicides, it's a worse problem in many other nations. In the US, suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death in people 15-24. While the media has been focused in the past 2 days on the 17 year old who self immolated in Tibet, how many other 17 year olds killed themselves over bullying, abuse, etc without ever being noticed?
But, having listened to the Dalai Lama for a long time (and many other monks) ... it seems that Buddhist do not tend to condemn, period.
We are all ignorance (unenlightened), and this creates great sorrow in the world.
The Buddhist response is compassion, not condemnation.