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The third noble truth
Wisdom23
Veteran
So i have discovered the route of my suffering, now to stop it. The Buddha said that life is suffering so surely we cant conquer the third precep. The only way i see this being accomplished is purely just accept whatever arises not labelling it as suffering just another sensation. Even if we never had desires again we will still be prone to physical pains i.e head ache. Then if we took this hypothesis and just accepted we may not do something that eleviates the pain i.e paracetamol lol. What do you think about this?
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Comments
Its not a question of not having desires...its about being able to choose our response with a clear mind, instead of just responding to conditioning and custom.
Many Thanks
And - the way I see it – one essential lesson to be learned from meditation is impermanence.
When we stay where we are the discomfort will come, it will change shape and it will go.
But no matter how fast we run away from discomfort and pain, it will always catch up with us and ultimately staying and running don’t make much difference. Whatever we do we will experience discomfort and pain, coming and going.
We may learn to stay with pain; not being a masochist but learning to relax into the experience; to become “one with it”.
I think that’s a wonderful skill; being able to relax where we are; in particular when we are in places where we don’t really want to be.
Like genkaku mentioned; it opens the door of heaven right in front of you.
Being a masochist is the other extreme. We don’t practice to punish ourselves; we practice to be able to relax where we are. If they have aspirin in hell I’ll have an aspirin please.
The point of the four noble truths is to showcase that suffering is an effect and that it has causes.
Insight is what brings liberation. So for instance if there is suffering, then we can accept it as it is. Oh suffering, there you are. Neither pushing nor pulling we allow it. Then it just goes away on its own.
This is fine, but the key insight is overlooked. Relaxing aversion and attachment effects the suffering. Aversion and attachment are the conditioning factors towards the construction of suffering. Suffering is built and ceases when the conditions for its continual building end.
This extends to everything when practiced and examined. Everything is a construction, thus empty thus a projection, Even the gross "things" we consider physical. Any form of suffering is an assumption of many parts globed together as one thing, when examined it is insubstantial.
Connecting the intellectual reading of the 4NT & 8FP with the experiential is often helped by first differentiating pain from suffering.
Pain is just a warning notification that something needs to be paid attention to. Suffering is our resistance to that experience.
Where as pain is just the nervous system doing it's job, the 4NT and 8FP show that suffering is just our response to that pain and that suffering is actually optional.
Once that understanding is experienced and digested, one begins to see that it's not just pain but all stimuli (painful, neutral or pleasurable) that can result in suffering according to our attachments to them.
So while some say that the 4NT & 8FP teachings are pretty simple,
manifesting them gives new meaning to the definition of limitless.
Buddha taught a way to reduce suffering. What he meant by suffering is the the mental anguish we put ourselves through by our attachments and desires, rather than physical pain.
However, letting go of our desire can even help with physical pain. When we stub our toe, we immediately sense hurt, but that hurt is worse because we also immediately think "I don't want to have this feeling". Being able to change your reaction to such sensations, to let them happen without creating more pain by our stressful reactions to it, can actually help reduce these physical aches and pains. Mastery of mind has many benefits. But it's not a black and white thing, it's a gradual improvement as you practice more and more, gain more understanding, become more compassionate.
Namaste
even in times of great "joy" there is always dissatisfaction... and fear.. this is why Dukkha is not given justice with the definition of "suffering".
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca1/index.html
most especially this part -
A contemporary definition:
Dukkha is:
Disturbance, irritation, dejection, worry, despair, fear, dread, anguish, anxiety; vulnerability, injury, inability, inferiority; sickness, aging, decay of body and faculties, senility; pain/pleasure; excitement/boredom; deprivation/excess; desire/frustration, suppression; longing/aimlessness; hope/hopelessness; effort, activity, striving/repression; loss, want, insufficiency/satiety; love/lovelessness, friendlessness; dislike, aversion/attraction; parenthood/childlessness; submission/rebellion; decision/indecisiveness, vacillation, uncertainty.
I agree with Citta about internalizing the word and doing away with translations
Pain is just a warning notification that something needs to be paid attention to. Suffering is our resistance to that experience.
I don't think it's that simple because in the suttas descriptions of dukkha ( suffering )invariably include physical pain, disease, aging etc.
One can experience amazing levels of pain with a meditative equanimity that allows it's existence but doesn't engage in a struggle against it. It remains a simple nerve response warning from body to brain that is simply pain.
The degree to which you are unable to except this pain for what it is, is the degree to which you will suffer.
To say this is too simple is to say the 4NT is too simple.
Dukkha is all-pervasive, many-layered and many-faceted, have another look here:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca1/index.html