I wonder where the ''original'' writings of old Masters are?? Like Dogens Shobogenzo and ...

zenmyste

TAO TE CHING - written by LAO TZU

ART OF WAR - written by SUN TZU

MEDITATIONS - written by MARCUS AURELIUS

Someone 'must' have or have 'had' the originals because where did the translations originally come from???

Even the ''oldest'' versions are translations from other translations of translations etc etc...
The original writings have disapeared?

I just always wonder things like this out of curiosity..

Also, just like 'chinese whispers', i wonder if we are reading their true work or if things have now been added and removed and edited etc etc.. I find it interesting that what we read, may never have even been wrote 'by' the original author ..

It fascinates me! very interesting..

Jeffrey

@zenmyste, that is why pointing out instructions by a teacher who has learned from their teacher. Chinese whispers could arise, but it would be more like a craftsman who learns from their patron and then trains more craftsman.

Also Buddhism isn't just learning documents. If you study your own experience the written teachings make more sense.

You're right that translation makes a slant though as different Bibles have a different feel to them. For example the King James Bible was influenced by the renaissance.

genkaku

@zenmyste -- Without meaning offense to any, my own feeling is that whether a wise text is first-edition or corrupt revision makes no difference except perhaps to scholars.

For a practicing student: Let's pretend that the text in front of you is absolutely-guaranteed-fershur the first edition of the sentiments expressed. It is true-true-true by provenance. The author's fingerprints are on the paper ... this is the Real McCoy. And it moves you.

For the practicing student, the question is, "So what?"

On the other hand, for the practicing student, let's pretend that the text in front of you has been rewritten and reconfigured through many ages and cultures. Historically, it's as phony as a three-dollar bill. Nevertheless, the document moves the reader.

And once again, the question that has to be asked is, "So what?"

From a practicing standpoint, all texts may be taken as utter bullshit or perfect truth and there is not a hair's worth of difference because until the student finds out for him- or herself, the matter remains intellectual and emotional, i.e. limited.

This is not to say that intellectual and emotional stuff are not inspiring or that they aren't a lot of fun to wonder about. But where the rubber hits the road, Gautama was not just whistling Dixie when he said (if he did), "Find out for yourself." Sure, everyone can be inspired, everyone can find hope, everyone can feel wonder and relief ... but the 'authenticity' of a text or teacher simply cannot match the 'authenticity' of the practitioner.

It's not a matter of better and worse ... it's just a matter of unvarnished fact.

FWIW.

BhanteLucky

But still, where are they? Gathering dust in some forgotten monastery attic? Buried in a cave tomb with some old monk? Removed again to the naga realm where they were guarded by nagas for 500 years? Or like the Dead Sea Scrolls, half buried in an abandoned half-collapsed cave.
It's interesting to wonder about.

federica

Tao Te Ching

Art of War

The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius
(The only other surviving complete copy of this manuscript is in the Vatican library.)

BhanteLucky

Woah cool, cave tombs indeed. Sealed since the 11th century!

Jeffrey

If possible 'google' it from the dharmakaya.