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Can we progress in Dharma without renunciation?
Can we progress in Dharma without renunciation?
According to Tsem Rinpoche, "No true Dharma can ever arise without true insight into renunciation. Therefore true Dharma practice only starts from having unwavering renunciation" (extracted from http://blog.tsemtulku.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/great-lamas-masters/renunciation-by-lama-yeshe.html) In that article, Rinpoche shares the insight into renunciation by Lama Yeshe, who also talks about Bodhicitta and Shunyata in that same talk.
Lama Yeshe says "What binds us to samsara? What makes us unhappy? Our lack of renunciation. We are unhappy because we crave and grasp sensory samsaric objects. We are seeking to solve our problems, but we are not looking for the solution in the right place. The right place is where we loosen our own grasping."
What do you think?
According to Tsem Rinpoche, "No true Dharma can ever arise without true insight into renunciation. Therefore true Dharma practice only starts from having unwavering renunciation" (extracted from http://blog.tsemtulku.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/great-lamas-masters/renunciation-by-lama-yeshe.html) In that article, Rinpoche shares the insight into renunciation by Lama Yeshe, who also talks about Bodhicitta and Shunyata in that same talk.
Lama Yeshe says "What binds us to samsara? What makes us unhappy? Our lack of renunciation. We are unhappy because we crave and grasp sensory samsaric objects. We are seeking to solve our problems, but we are not looking for the solution in the right place. The right place is where we loosen our own grasping."
What do you think?
0
Comments
Al the best,
Todd
This is both what I hold on to, as well as what I push away.
In formal meditation, attachment stands out as that which manipulates the arising, living and fading away of phenomena.
In daily life, questioning if you can simply let something be what it is or do you feel the need to fiddle with it's outcome, often illuminates the answer to your question.
"Not apart from enlightenment and austerity,
Not apart from sense restraint,
Not apart from relinquishing all,
Do I see any safety for living beings." (SN 2:17)
Renouncing is not getting rid of material belongings. Even more important than renouncing the material is the practice of sense restraint and seeing clearly the 3 characteristics (impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and insubstantiality) which leads to relinquishing of the 5 aggregates.
addiction is the stage when the attachment goes so strong, that it derives a person crazy in order to get that thing. so these are various levels of the increasing of intensity of attachment - initially just a enjoyment happened, then a smaller feeling of attachment towards that thing for getting the enjoyment but keeping it within ethical boundaries to get that thing, then stronger feeling of attachment (which is addiction) towards the thing for getting the enjoyment by doing whatever needs to be done whether ethical or unethical to get that thing.
What Lama Yeshe said in very beginning of the article is "Renunciation is a tricky word. In the Western world it has a connotation that makes us scared of losing our pleasure. I want you to understand that to be renounced, you don’t have to throw away all your nice belongings. That isn’t the meaning of renunciation. That isn’t only the business of monks and nuns. Anyone who is seeking liberation or enlightenment should have renunciation of samsara."
@misecmisc1 i agree with you that renunciation is completely mental. That is why in the Vajrayana tradition, you don't necessarily have to be sitting in the forest with nothing.
@pegembara Yes we don't have to give up material things, as Lama Yeshe said above. We don't have to throw our stuff out. You can be immersed in samsara but not attached to it, therefore, for those who have attained non-attachment (and developing a good motivation), it is okay to be driving a ferrari and being in samsara!
If we are 'attached' to Dharma, is that ok?
My take is that with PRACTICE, things renounce themselves without giving up anything. No pushing and pulling and gnashing of mental teeth ... with practice, things just walk away all by themselves.
With PRACTICE.
can it be true? not me. I am renouncing renuciation. I am practicing more. More acceptance. More kindness to fish and enlightened grass xxx Hug more trees and the wooden. Worship more than I can imagine. Maybe I could give up Easter for Lent, to please the ExTians - after all this is the Middle Way . . . :thumbup:
I am going to snog More Buddha statues and report myself to the dharma police. I am going to eat garlic and onions and sleep on a higher bed. I am going to sing and dance with nuns.
In short I am going to be a bad bad Buddha. Naughty even.
Just sleep, eat, piss, shit.
There’s nothing else in life that has to be done.
Don’t get involved with other things:
They’re not the point.
Keep a low profile,
Sleep.
In the triple universe
When you’re lower than your company
You should take the low seat.
Should you happen to be the superior one,
Don’t get arrogant.
There’s no absolute need to have close friends;
You’re better off just keeping to yourself.
When you’re without any worldly or religious obligations,
Don’t keep on longing to acquire some!
If you let go of everything—
Everything, everything—
That’s the real point!
http://sealevel.ns.ca/patrul/
Do you renounce anything when you vow to keep the precepts? Seems to me that when you vow to keep the precepts, you are vowing to renounce killing, stealing, lying, etc.
You have to be honest and realistic about renunciation. You may end up being an up tight Buddhist, instead of a natural . . .
At the heart of the practice, Buddhism encourages encourages one to renounce their unskillful thoughts and desires, particularly those imbued with sensuality, ill will, and harmfulness (MN 19), and to renounce what's conducive to short-term welfare and happiness in favour of what's conducive to long-term welfare and happiness (Dhp 290).
Renunciation goes against the flow of craving (Iti 109); it inclines towards peace (AN 9.41); and most importantly, it leads to the nibbana (AN 3.38). While it may be difficult to see the benefits of renunciation at the beginning, it's an important part of the path.
In terms of worldly happiness, the Buddha mentions "four kinds of bliss (or happiness)" that can be attained by a householder "partaking of sensuality" (i.e., indulging in a non-contemplative lifestyle): the bliss of having, the bliss of wealth, the bliss of debtlessness, and the bliss of blamelessness (AN 4.62). The highest happiness in Buddhism, however, is a happiness born of renunciation (Ud 2.10) and letting go (SN 35.101) rather than one born of sensual indulgence (AN 9.41).
Unfortunately, renunciation is often perceived as a negative word, especially in the West—a word that implies depriving oneself of something essential to living a full and happy life. But in the Buddha's dispensation, renunciation actually means the opposite of this—it's a word implying the relinquishment of something unessential to living a full and happy life.
So how do we keep the renunciate mind even though we read a sci-fi novel or play a game with family?
Two common options exist for the renunciate.
Toss 100% of yourself into whatever you do. It's a version of "If you have to cut wood, do it fully enough that your body & mind disappears. A Zen favourite for the erudite.
or
Clearly observe what ever you do. Don't lose yourself in any activity to the degree that the observer is unseated. Read or play but always try to keep a bit more attention on the observer than the activity.