Seeking to avoid aversion to pain

sharonsaw

i was just thinking about developing no aversion to pain, which is one of the 8 worldly concerns. (the 8 worldly concerns being attachment to pleasure, aversion to pain, attachment to good reputation, aversion to a bad reputation, attachment to material gain, aversion to material loss, attachment to praise, aversion to blame)

Does it mean that if we are not averse to pain, we desensitize ourselves from other people's criticism? So we do not seek to avoid punishment or a telling off? Just ruminating.

federica

Aversion to 'pain' or aversion to 'blame'....? :scratch:

lobster

There are two physical routes you might consider, martial arts and yoga. Both give you ample opportunity to explore pain. Just be sure you don't get a taste for it.

"look at me twisted in lotus rooting, pained with grim austerity, surely I am worthy of release"
. . . Eh no sadhu, you are ignorant . . .

Start off with discomfort, don't go straight for pain. Yoga or prostrations will cause a little discomfort and the benefits are more resilience to pain.

Hope that is helpful :wave:

BhikkhuJayasara

sharonsaw said:

i was just thinking about developing no aversion to pain, which is one of the 8 worldly concerns. (the 8 worldly concerns being attachment to pleasure, aversion to pain, attachment to good reputation, aversion to a bad reputation, attachment to material gain, aversion to material loss, attachment to praise, aversion to blame)

Does it mean that if we are not averse to pain, we desensitize ourselves from other people's criticism? So we do not seek to avoid punishment or a telling off? Just ruminating.

the root cause is not pain, but aversion. Aversion is trying to escape or move away from what is displeasing. Pain is not universally displeasing, just look at the S&M people who have an attachment to it and are sexually aroused.

so what the true issue is stems from the three roots "greed(attachment), hatred(aversion) and delusion(ignorance)" . When you work to lessen these three roots, the 8 worldly concerns begin to lessen and disappear on their own.

and how do you lesson the hold on you these three roots have? with insight, ie experiential wisdom. You see them for what they are, you grow a dispassion for them naturally, and when attachment, aversion, and delusion are gone.. there is only the five aggregates, only form, feeling, perception, mental formations and consciousness.. there is no "being" experiencing " pain", there is no "being" being told off or criticized.

so the long and the short of it.. practice practice practice(concentration(samatha) and more specifically insight/wisdom(vipassana) meditations), this is how you lessen your aversion(and attachment and greed)

misecmisc1

sharonsaw said:

Does it mean that if we are not averse to pain, we desensitize ourselves from other people's criticism? So we do not seek to avoid punishment or a telling off? Just ruminating.

@sharonsaw: if what other people's say in their criticism has truth in it and needs something to be worked at, then we can take it as positive criticism and then there will be no pain for that critcism. if what other people's say in their criticism has false things in it, then since those statements are wrong, there is no need for feeling pain on their wrong statements.

taiyaki

The only way out is by seeing how it is constructed. What are the variables, conditions, factors that go into the "effect" or "suffering" we perceive.

Any action for or against will only perpetuate the suffering.

We must actively engage the insight and consolidate our insights about the construction of suffering.

Then we must actively engage in the deconstruction of suffering as the path and fruition.

Jeffrey

It means not letting blame derail you, but just see that trying not to EVER be blamed is impossible and illogical to pursue 'never any blame.' In essence it is to have no fear.

genkaku

With practice, I think it becomes apparent that there is no escape from pain ... none. Mental pain, physical pain ... no escape. Holy is no escape from unholy. Tall is no escape from short. Happy is no escape from sad. Etc.

Practice is just the business of slowing down long enough to examine what has been unexamined in the past: what is inescapable. And what that examination reveals is ... well, inescapable is not all that bad.

how

It's an interesting topic.

There are spiritual openings that can be profound enough to relegate severe pain to the status of a simple observation. What ever strength these states of graces hold, the accompanying ability to be unperturbed by severe pain does have a shelf life that be measured from seconds to months.
During such a time, some root canal dental surgery that had been done the day before became infected at the monastery I'd been living in. 3 oclock in the morning had me prying off the temporary fillings with a safety pin to relieve the building pressure that was dislodging my other teeth & deforming my jaw. At the time it was no big deal and I've witnessed many other sincere meditaters do likewise in there own way.

In the more mundane experiences of day to day life, practise can allow one to accept pain as the nerve messaging to the brain that it is. It is not much more than the observation of any other phenomena in meditation where we practise the art of not trying to affect that which is arising.
Such pain is not lessened, mitigated or unfelt, just not necessarily transformed into suffering from our habitual attempts to escape from it.

I do say "not necessarily because" the Achilles heel of my experience with pain visited a few years ago as some humbling kidney stones that turned this grown man into a suffering jelly.

zombiegirl

It's not about becoming desensitized to what others say. That attitude is very ego driven, don't you think? It's about not attaching to the criticisms as criticisms of ME. For example, if I paint a picture and someone comes over and gives me criticism... I can't simply turn a blind eye, because what if what they have to say could benefit me? But at the same time, if I am too attached to my work, then I am liable to become very hurt by their words, even if they are constructive criticisms. Like everything else, there is a middle way, but at the root of it is lessening the ego. Lessen the hold of the ego and you will see yourself more open to constructive criticisms, as well as having less issues sifting out the less constructive ones.

As a side note, I am quite aware that this is a lot easier than it sounds. Stephen King once referred to the editing phase as, "Killing your darlings," and that phrase resonates with me quite a bit. And if we're not talking about a work of art, and more simply perhaps, criticisms of yourself... well, what is more darling to most people than themselves?

footiam

sharonsaw said:

i was just thinking about developing no aversion to pain, which is one of the 8 worldly concerns. (the 8 worldly concerns being attachment to pleasure, aversion to pain, attachment to good reputation, aversion to a bad reputation, attachment to material gain, aversion to material loss, attachment to praise, aversion to blame)

Does it mean that if we are not averse to pain, we desensitize ourselves from other people's criticism? So we do not seek to avoid punishment or a telling off? Just ruminating.

If we are not averse to pain, it is not that we desensitize ourselves from other people's criticism. In fact, we become sensitive to people's criticism, just that we take them in a positive way and do what ought to be done, even telling people off.

Dulzie_Bear

I don't think one is supposed to desensitize ourselves from criticisms. That would be counter-productive because basically that means we don't care about what others say about us anymore. Such thinking would train our mind to be extremely self grasping unless we can apply the same desensitizing process to positive reactions such as praise. It is not that we do not care or become unresponsive to what others might say to us and about us. It is more that the motivation behind our work and actions is neither to solicit praise or to avoid criticism...it is not ego based.

Rudyard Kipling said it best in the poem 'If' in which he refers to winning and losing; triumph and disaster and from inference, happiness and sorrow; blame and fame...as the "two impostors". Neither should we allow one or the other to define us.