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A doubt coming in my mind - what to do - please suggest
misecmisc1
I am a HinduIndia Veteran
Hi All,
I have returned back to India from the foreign city office assignment and I am with my family now at my native place. A doubt has started arising in me - let me tell the background of it - when i was in that foreign city for nearly 2 months staying alone in a hotel room, then in weekdays except the usual office hours, i had all the time for myself there. so what i used to do was - i meditated in morning, then went to office, came back home, listened to dhamma talks/spiritual talks on internet and then after dinner, i meditated little bit and when my body started dropping because of sleepiness, then i went to sleep and again next day - the same routine followed. on weekends, had much more time to do these activities.
now i have come to my native place and i am with my family now. these days i have started getting up late in morning because it usually gets late to sleep at night. working during office hours. then the remaining time gets spent with my parents saying something to me, my daughter (now going to be 2 years old) asking my attention because she keeps on touching different things and we have to take care that she does not throw those things to ground, my wife asking my attention throughout the evening and then i sleep late at night because our daughter sleeps usually late at night and then i get up late in morning the next day - this thing keeps on repeating these days.
so you can see how much time of mine has got reduced from spiritual path and increased on worldly path. now in future, as my daughter starts getting older, her schooling will start and my involvement in these worldly things will increase.
so coming to the doubt now - in the past, it had happened to me that there were things, which i found interesting, did it for sometime and then those things did not seem interesting to me anymore and so i left those things - Now the doubt which is coming to my mind is - will this thing happen to spirituality and meditation too? that after sometime, i will not find it interesting and will loose interest in following the spiritual path and again go back to the worldly path. Obviously, it is complete stupidity of me to ask you all this thing, as this thing i can only answer for myself. But please tell me do any of you get this type of doubt in your mind and if you get, then how do you handle it? Please suggest. Thanks in advance.
I have returned back to India from the foreign city office assignment and I am with my family now at my native place. A doubt has started arising in me - let me tell the background of it - when i was in that foreign city for nearly 2 months staying alone in a hotel room, then in weekdays except the usual office hours, i had all the time for myself there. so what i used to do was - i meditated in morning, then went to office, came back home, listened to dhamma talks/spiritual talks on internet and then after dinner, i meditated little bit and when my body started dropping because of sleepiness, then i went to sleep and again next day - the same routine followed. on weekends, had much more time to do these activities.
now i have come to my native place and i am with my family now. these days i have started getting up late in morning because it usually gets late to sleep at night. working during office hours. then the remaining time gets spent with my parents saying something to me, my daughter (now going to be 2 years old) asking my attention because she keeps on touching different things and we have to take care that she does not throw those things to ground, my wife asking my attention throughout the evening and then i sleep late at night because our daughter sleeps usually late at night and then i get up late in morning the next day - this thing keeps on repeating these days.
so you can see how much time of mine has got reduced from spiritual path and increased on worldly path. now in future, as my daughter starts getting older, her schooling will start and my involvement in these worldly things will increase.
so coming to the doubt now - in the past, it had happened to me that there were things, which i found interesting, did it for sometime and then those things did not seem interesting to me anymore and so i left those things - Now the doubt which is coming to my mind is - will this thing happen to spirituality and meditation too? that after sometime, i will not find it interesting and will loose interest in following the spiritual path and again go back to the worldly path. Obviously, it is complete stupidity of me to ask you all this thing, as this thing i can only answer for myself. But please tell me do any of you get this type of doubt in your mind and if you get, then how do you handle it? Please suggest. Thanks in advance.
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Comments
I think it is certainly possible to loose your interest in meditation and spiritual practice, but what drives this practice is suffering, and that is not going to go away on it's own. As someone said "the only thing harder than meditation is suffering". So once we have discovered meditation and spiritual practice, it's likely that we go back to it when we suffer too much.
I also think there is more than enough to learn from spending time with your family. The buddha said that spiritual friendship is not half but the whole of the spiritual life, so I "just" by being a good (spiritual) friend to your relatives you are practicing the path.
Take care,
Maarten
be kind to your body and mind. So you have doubt, observe it come and go, try not to attach to it but if you do observe that as well.. and then whoa surprise, your practicing
Ajahn Chah said " if you have time to breathe, you have time to meditate". Don't think of your practice as something SEPARATE from your life and family..think of it as PART of your life, integrated into it. There is nothing your family can really do to take you away from your practice, only you do that.
I hope my babbling makes sense and you can take some meaning from it
all the best
Weave the 8-fold path into every aspect of your life and dealings with your family, children and co-workers; observe the precepts to the best of your ability while interacting with others. One doesn't need solitude or seclusion (or even formal sitting meditation) to be a Buddhist.
IMO, those who shut themselves away in caves, temples or self-seclusion of any sort just to practice Buddhism 24/7, do themselves and the world around them a disservice.
Edited to add: have you thought about teaching your daughter to meditate with daddy? Doesn't need to be anything stringent or structured beyond a few minutes of "quiet time" with daddy every evening or morning.
As there is no escaping so-called suffering in this life, so there is no escaping the kids ... and it can feel like a prison: How am I ever to advance spiritually if my attention keeps getting sidetracked?! Boy, I sure wish I were a monk in a monastery ... without the worldly concerns and difficulties ... life would be so much smoother, so much less deluded.
Well, be patient.
My Zen teacher, a Japanese fellow, said to me TWICE (which, for a Japanese man of his profession, is a little like a Marine Corps drill sergeant screaming in your ear): "Take care of your family." Take care of what you cannot escape. Investigate what you cannot escape. Make peace with what you cannot escape. Never mind any fancy ideas about what spiritual life is supposed to be like ... make peace with what actually is. Think about it: If what Gautama taught was that everybody had to be just like him, how long do you think Buddhism would have survived?
Maybe when spiritual life falls away, spiritual life finally has a chance to assert itself.
Best wishes.
I consulted with the campus Buddhist chaplain about my problem, and he told me that there's not necessarily anything to "do" about the situation. He said that if you have chosen to live a certain way (in this case, with Buddhism as a guiding practice), then that intent and practice will have an effect on your everyday interaction with people. Basically, we need to have faith in what our practice has cultivated and have faith in our inner nature.
Like @genkaku said, seeing the separation between "spiritual practice" and life is part of the problem. If we can develop ourselves in a way that integrates Buddhist practice and daily life, then there will be less of this self-imposed conflict.
It sounds like you used the Dharma while abroad to avoid boredom, then became accustomed (attached?) to that level of practice. Now that your schedule has changed, you're experiencing dukkha, you're noticing your attachment to your Dharma-intensive previous schedule. Change happens. Let go of your longing for your previous schedule, appreciate the love of your family, work with it, do what you can re: Dharma practice, and be patient with yourself and your loved ones. That, itself, is practice.
I actually think my kids are my greatest teachers!
My advice @misecmisc1 - read and re-read the posts above. There is some wonderful advice there from a lot of wise people......
Best of luck!
Transcendance or ignorance is the meeting of this truth or the turning away from it.
In the end all of our practises depend on nothing more, nothing less.
thanks for all your insightful and awesome replies.
the summary of the above replies seems to be to live the spiritual life inside the current worldly life. but the question comes is it really possible - means - let me take a situation, which happened yesterday - my parents and my wife do not scold my daughter, even though they are upset over her. since my daughter is going to be 2 years old in coming months, so obviously she does not have the understanding to know what to do and what not to do. usually what happens is i see my parents getting suffered over my daughter's activities (though it happens only sometimes), when my daughter starts doing those activities which she is told not to do. sometimes she gets hold of my mobile and after playing with it for sometime, throws it on the ground. sometimes she asks for my father's mobile and then my father denies her and she keeps on repeating the demand for my father's mobile and then my father gives his mobile to her, which she played with for sometime and then threw on the ground. i saw my father became upset over it, but he did not said anything to her. then he took his mobile from ground and my daughter again asked for his mobile, may be to play with it. Then i saw my father's face getting sad fearing that she may throw her mobile on ground again. then seeing all these things, i became angry and i scolded my daughter in a loud noise - i just called her name in a loud noise, hearing which she got feared and then she did not asked for my father's mobile.
so my question is - if i see my daughter getting hold of an article(which say is of my parents) and throwing that article will hurt my parents and not getting that article will cause my daughter to suffer - and i know my parents even though they suffer, they will not say anything to my daughter, so in that situation, should i just try to be in present moment and consider that there is just visual contact of a form(my daughter) with my eyes, a sound contact (my daughter's crying or speech to get that article) and see its arising and cessation and doing nothing?
or say if i see my daughter tormenting my parents by asking them to hold up her in their arms and my parents are feeling tired after coming from market, then if i scold my daughter by calling her name in loud noise is that ok - or - should i just consider that there is just a visual contact and sound contact arising due to its conditions arising and i should not do anything and let my daughter make my parents suffer? sometimes my daughter becomes so arrogant that if she asks my parents to hold her up in their arms, then even if i or my wife tries to take her in our arms, she starts crying and stops only when my parents take her up in their arms, so i sometimes scold my daughter to not do it.
But if i scold, then it means i am getting angry, which means i am not able to see conditions as mere conditions, rather i am giving meaning to it - so in a way behaving as a normal worldly person will behave, who has never get into touch with spirituality.
I hope you guys are getting the point, which i am saying here - is it really possible to live a spiritual life within a worldly life? i also think it seems possible, but somehow i am not able to practically figure it out how to do it.
welcome to the real world
morpheus :wave:
If your definition of each is mutually exclusive of the other - so for example, worldy for you means spending all time with your family and spirituality means spending all time in a cave - then you may have difficulty reconciling the two.
You need to find the balance that works for you and your family.
There is only one life you are living - the delineation you describe is created by your view.
At that age, distraction works very well. Instead of just repeatedly telling her no until you go crazy and yell at her, find something it IS ok for her to play with. Parenting is a constant learning curve, but there are always solutions that honor both the child and the adult. As a parent it is your job how to teach her not to suffer just because she does not get what she wants. Giving her want she wants when it is inappropriate is only going to lead to more and more suffering on her part, and yours.
Ah, but the terrible twos: The Human Tyrant, the Infant Dictator, almost uncontrollable at times! But that strong ego of theirs can be eventually bridled when you stand up giant-tall and strong and firmly say, "NO!" Otherwise, they'll find your weak spot and you'll lose control.
Whimsically, think of your daughter as the one to whom aliens landing on our planet are taken after requesting: "Take me to your leader."
If she demands something, and when denied it, starts fussing, quiet her. If she becomes unruly, give her a brief "time out" in a bedroom. Or speak to her in a stern voice, as you did. You said this works. This is not anger, this is skillful means. If you are mindful, then you can utilize the appearance of anger to achieve a goal, without actually giving into the anger. Lamas, abbots and teachers do this all the time. The stern voice and feigned (or real) anger are just a tool, nothing more. When the tool has achieved its purpose, you calmly set it down and go about your business, as before.
If the family needs help handling a 2-year-old, they could consider taking a parenting class. Learning what stage the child's cognitive development is at, and what that means re: discipline, temperament, and so forth, and can be very interesting and useful to know.
This is not so.
Your family is not doing the child any favours by letting her do what she wants.
I have a 2 year old daughter at home and have exactly the same issues. In the situation you describe I simply tell her the phone is not a toy so she can't play with it and take it off her. I am bigger then her so it's easy to do.
There is no need to shout IMO. If she cries about it then that's ok. Give her something else to play with (as some people suggested above).
It sounds to me like the main issue you have is the fact that your wife and parents don't know how to say no to her? Perhaps you need to set the example. If you can refrain from shouting at her I would suggest that as I don't think that is wise (just my opinion).
Good luck! It's not easy.
Lastly, when you are set to say no for any reason ask yourself why. Because early on I said no a lot because I was lazy. I didn't want to get up an go to the park. I didn't want to help them with something. Make sure your reasons for denying them are backed up by something, otherwise as they get older, they just stop asking because they are too used to being denied. For some things, this is ideal, as in the case with a kid asking to play with a phone. In some cases, not as good.
St Teresa of Ávila used to say that three things were prerequisite for a long spiritual life, namely a healthy appetitite, the ability to sleep well, and a good sense of humor. I think what she meant by a sense of humor is the ability to laugh at yourself, that is, not to take oneself too seriously. (But everybody is different; St Francis of Assisi didn't really exemplify a good sense of humor in the usual sense, though I doubt he ever took himself seriously.)
I'd add another, Sri Sarada Devi's admonition of how vital it is not to find fault with anybody else but rather to find your own.
Doesn't sound like you have to be a rocket scientist to me. There are times when some water gets in the boat, to use Sri Ramakrishna's analogy, but throwing worldiness overboard where it belongs is just part of the journey. If it's not a journey, why take the spiritual life on in the first place?
This isn't to say that if you do the right thing, all will be smooth sailing. The child not getting her way is an important learning process for her. If she cries when limits are set, this shouldn't be viewed as "suffering". You could view it as putting healthy boundaries around ego.
Buy the child a toy phone, and spend time playing "telephone" with her, pretending to call her from your own phone. Notice her delight at this simple game. You can invent all kinds of variations on this theme, to keep her amused. This type of loving, playful interaction is an investment in the child's character and in your future relationship with her. It's sort of like a bank; the more deposits you put in now, the greater the reward you and she will reap as she matures.