Being resentful at helping certain people...

Tosh

I was reading through Geoff-Allen's quotes post and found this relevant to me:

Buddhism praises the value of generosity but warns that you shouldn’t give something away if you’re likely to be upset later and regret giving it away. Similarly, although it’s good to help others, we shouldn’t agree to do something for another person if it will likely lead us to feel exhausted, resentful, and angry at the other person. Each of us has to judge our own capacities and set our boundaries accordingly.

I help guys with their alcoholism, but I have one guy in particular who I spent a lot of time with, I took him through the 12 Steps, I was with him through his divorce and listened to all his troubles and helped where-ever possible.

Over a year later he's still wrapped up in himself, when according to the 12 Step program he should be 'getting out of self' and helping others recover from their alcoholism. This guy is fairly affluent (despite his divorce), he's intelligent (he has a degree in law), he's a leader (he's an ex army major), but he's still making demands on my time, yet his actions show he's not paying the kindness I showed him on. He wants to meet up with me and he sounded disappointed when I suggested he comes to visit me (I normally travel to him) and we go to an A.A. meeting together. His preference is that I travel to him and listen to him at his house (in the country).

I dunno, but he's starting to annoy me (I'm responsible for that I know), but the answer to his problems is really that he should be helping others and not just sitting in his own shit all the time. But I can't beat him into helping others (even if I'd like too).

Just as a side-note, I'm this guys A.A. sponsor; it means he has given me a certain amount of spiritual authority to be honest with him. My own sponsor's procedure is to stop sponsoring guys who do not follow the A.A.'s 12 Steps. He says, "How can I sponsor them if they don't follow the program?" or words to that effect, but I also find my sponsor's attitude a bit too extreme sometimes.

So, to clarify, I'm annoyed at myself for agreeing to spend more time with a guy who doesn't help others; even though he's been sober for about 18 months; he's still only concerned with himself, not others.

Do I stop being annoyed with myself, or do I stop helping this guy, or do I threaten him with a big stick and force him to help others?

Any advice or views would be appreciated!

Rodrigo

Be compassionate with him, but be compassionate with yourself first. If you did all that you can and he is causing you to have negative feelings and thoughts, just take a little distance. Don't try to force him to be something that he might not yet be capable of.

genkaku

How about being honest with him -- telling him how you feel? Being a sponsor doesn't mean being a doormat. A part of being sober/sane is recognizing that, however compelling your tragedy, everyone has suffered a tragedy.

Jeffrey

You can't change him. This is the way he is. Don't react out of obligation. Only act out of freedom. If you love him then you will work with him at times and at times you will tell him what you just told us. If you don't love him then it is out of obligation and you should set boundaries as if you are being paid on the clock like a therapist.

ammending the above^ You can't change himm but time and effort can.

Tosh

genkaku said:

How about being honest with him -- telling him how you feel?

You're not the first to say this to me. My sponsor tells me 'Just be honest with him!' I think I have issues around my spinal region when it comes to telling people hard truths; or what I perceive will not be good news for them.

He's coming to see me tomorrow evening; time to grab a coffee in my house before we go to a meeting. I'll have a chat with him on the way home.

how

First, I think this is one of those questions best left to your meditation but some thoughts meantime..


-Why not be fairer to everyone by enforcing a structure with a more equal sharing of time & travel with your "friend'?
-Are you allowing yourself to be manipulated and correspondingly devalued by him?
-There are mental conditions that prevent empathy. How do you know it's even possible for him to empathize with others?
_Is your own sponsors (hard ass) attitude because he realizes that they have to be the ones to do the work. That he knows he can't carry them but can only point the way?
_Good luck in challenging the authority of your friends learned army major experience. If you wish him to think about others, consider yourself the place to practise that art and tell him so.



But once again this seems like a good question to navigate within your own practise.

genkaku

@Tosh -- Don't imagine you're telling anything that's 'true' or 'correct.' Saying how something makes you feel is just saying how it makes you feel. It's just your truth, nothing special. Adding in some superior position, some position of advanced understanding or simpering compassion or something similar, is extra. When you're doing AA, do AA. Never mind something called "Buddhism" -- that would be un-Buddhist.

Tosh

Thanks guys, you've all given me some food for thought, and some good advice.

It's been very useful for me, and I sincerely mean that.

I'll report back tomorrow after our meeting.

person

Tosh said:

genkaku said:

How about being honest with him -- telling him how you feel?

You're not the first to say this to me. My sponsor tells me 'Just be honest with him!' I think I have issues around my spinal region when it comes to telling people hard truths; or what I perceive will not be good news for them.

He's coming to see me tomorrow evening; time to grab a coffee in my house before we go to a meeting. I'll have a chat with him on the way home.

I'll second this take. It seems to me that you can explain the situation and the problem to him without being aggressive or laying down some ultimatum. Maybe he's a reasonable person and just hasn't really considered or been that aware of your overall point about changing his focus.

lobster

I'll report back tomorrow after our meeting.

Good luck. :clap:

He is a big boy general. You have an absolute right to feel. You can tell people this. People are a lot kinder to the real than the pseudo kind . . .

novaw0lf

There may be no one set rate of recovery for every person, for we are all at different levels of mental and emotional strength...but my vote is also...for honesty.

For the record: I really admire your will to help others, regardless.

karasti

One of the big things I have learned in life, is never to "complain" without offering a solution. I agree with being honest, but I would also offer a solution/suggestion at the same time. Have the talk with him about him needing to get to a point of wanting to help others. But perhaps suggest something he, or the 2 of you, can do together to help him step into that role. Some people have a hard time putting themselves out there, and need a little boost and a partner. I am like that. I always appreciate when someone can say "hey, let's do it together." Because I need to know the way, the route so to speak, to a lot of things to feel okay doing them. From visiting a new restaurant to taking classes, if I have a partner to guide me, it is a million times easier.

sharonsaw

there's a lot of good advice in this thread. As i work full-time in a dharma centre, more often than not, people who come to the dharma centre come with problems and looking to us to help. I have come across similar situations as in i and my dharma brothers and sisters have counseled certain people for a long time and given them advice but they will not take the advice and just want to spend time talking and i have felt that they are just 'using' us to complain to. It's like free therapy. Usually we find out that none of their friends wanted to listen to them complain anymore, and they are actually just looking for a new audience to gain sympathy and indulge their selfishness.

In the end, we have decided that unless the person wishes to really change, we cannot spend too much time with these people. The reason is because our time is limited. We only have 24 hours a day and there are many people who need help. If we spend too much time with one person who sucks up 6 hours and is not willing to help themselves, that 6 hours could be better spent helping another person who genuinely wants to help himself. When i first joined the dharma centre, i did wonder why some people who seemingly needed help wasn't receiving it but when i found out the background of those people, i understood.

i hope your meeting with him goes well and he is receptive to your feedback. If he is so wrapped up in himself as you have conveyed, be prepared that he may not wish to hear what you have to say, but i think you should be confident that you have made the best decision you can and be happy in that.

Tosh

Well, he arrived 20 minutes late, so we had to dash to the meeting. He's upset with his ex wife and her new bloke (a priest who is also in A.A. (very messy break up)) but they divorced over a year ago now. He's put on a lot of weight and he talked non-stop; justifying the way he's feeling; blaming everyone with no thought of his own part in the situation. His sense of self is extremely strong; the indignity and the injustice he's feeling is immense.

Eventually I did manage to explain what the real problem is (the man that looks back at him in the mirror) and passed on some good (standard) A.A. advice, which is also very Buddhist too. But I've done this before and he tends to cherry pick what he wishes to hear/implement.

Still, I'm taught that I should do what I should be doing and the results aren't upto me.

Thanks all for the excellent advice and a great place to sound off a problem.