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Is it ethical to give money to beggars?
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The only thing that ever pushed my father to get sober was when he could no longer get alcohol. Like Smokey in Fried Green Tomatoes, he had a physical dependency on alcohol and that dependency forced him to have a seizure and lay face down in the snow for a half an hour before someone found him. For all that I had tried, that alone was the moment that finally made him wake up. If I or other family might have given him money for booze, he might not be sober today.
I love Fried Green Tomatoes, but I just can't understand how giving alcohol to an alcoholic can ever be considered compassionate in the long term. If you continue to supply an addict with their addiction, how can they ever get better? I realize the issue here is more like, 'what a homeless person spends their dollar on' since most people don't actually GIVE them alcohol, but at the root of the issue, this is why it bothers me specifically. I don't mean to judge alcoholics, but more than anything, I just feel sad for them. Addiction is sad. I would hate to think that I am contributing to it.
I once read somewhere that when we have reached buddhahood all the characteristics such as metta shouldn't need to be thpught about, it should just be a natural reaction. For example today i saw a women standing near a crossing, holding a map and sratching her head. Didnt take a genius to figure out how i could help her lol. So without even thinking too much, " Hi are you lost? where are you trying to get to?"
I would like to thank the person who started this post, it has been a subject that has been on my mind quite frequently. Thank You
All the best peoples.
@Vinlyn
The circumstances that you describe may be commonplace where you were in Bangkok... and that is really, truly unfortunate and very sad. I'm sure we would all be shocked to encounter what you had encountered there. I know I would be!
But they are extraordinary circumstances compared to most of our experiences here in the US, or in the UK or most of Europe. On our daily walks or commutes, in our neighborhoods or communities we don't see homelessness and/or begging in those numbers - not even close to those numbers.
Even those of us who live in troubled urban areas where poverty is common, see far less homeless beggars than you saw in Bangkok. That is a given.
But it still comes down to whether you give to one beggar once, or to a few beggars on a regular basis, (or give to NO beggars because you can't afford to), the point is when you DO give - to give because a person suffers....not because he will spend that money in ways you 'approve of'.
I also have this weird aversion to drunk people. Not to alcohol itself, but people I perceive to be 'drunk' and just on that fine line between in control and out of control.
My best friend died of alcoholism - one year ago today- as a matter of fact. :-(
I am married to an alcoholic (sober for 17 yrs now), who comes from an entire family of alcoholics. I know first hand the damage it does to the individuals, their kids and the families as a whole. Just like we know the damage hard drug abuse does... same thing; it's devastating to everyone around the drug addicted.
Giving a drink to Smokey Joe in the movie illustrated how Idgie saw suffering, but didn't stop to question why or who's fault it was. She saw suffering and offered relief in the only way she could - by offering what would ease that person's suffering right then and there.
Maybe it was his fate, or his "karma" to live that lifetime as a person addicted to alcohol. Does addiction make one evil? I don't believe it does. My friend wasn't evil, quite the opposite, actually. My husband isn't a bad person, either.
Can addicted people sometimes do bad things? Of course, but so do non-addicted people, sometimes.
Maybe Smokey was an alcoholic, but still a "good person" - well actually, he was. He was a gentle man and intervened in a baby's kidnapping, put himself in harms way to do it.... should he be reviled only because people disapprove of his drinking?
You are not obligated to spend your day giving out money to beggars. If you don't have extra to give right then, don't give. Giving everything you have to the homeless doesn't solve their problems, all it does is add one more homeless to the ranks. If you live in a country where beggars are everywhere, it's not up to you to keep their pockets filled with money. Don't feel bad about it.
Metta is the spirit of giving. You should give with as little thought as passing money from your left hand to your right hand, when the situation calls for giving. But don't confuse this spirit of giving for a demand to give. That only causes anger and resentment.
life, someone has a need and we are able to take joy in giving we should give and be happy
and with our giving we are filling the univerce with possitive thots
of joy, as i chant mantras of joy to all and peace to, all i am not cocerned with how the joy is working but rather i am happy that i can send the possitive energy
out there
namaste
Cozmic
some really amazing wisdom here. I always give to beggars but wanted to explore the other angles.
my sister was homeless from the age of 21-23... she was saved by an incredibly generous women who left her a note while she was asleep in a doorway. she then payed her taxi fair (£125) to her house in Devon. left her(my sister) alone in her house while she went on holiday for two weeks (and gave her money to buy food) and finally found found her a place to live for free on a farm until she got back on her feet. that is true compassion. I believe that woman saved her life.
it is ridiculous to say that some people who chose to live on the streets don't deserve help.... what kind of life experiences lead someone to make that choice? ones that deserve compassion.
my personal belief is that people in that situation need to be seen as human and valued. and I feel that trusting them to make their own decisions is part of that.
thanks again
In the midst of daily life, there is an outstretched hand of someone asking for something. There are as many contemplations to that request as there are people to play all the roles in that meeting.
The real teacher here is
how you really met with that last outstretched hand, defines not the pretty ideals of ones meditation, but simply how you actually practise it.
My own most common reason for not giving is completely truthful; I simply don't have any money on me. Another reason why I have not given is what I would term the aggressive nature of the individual asking - it makes me feel threatened or unsafe.
Generally, when asked and I am in a position to do so, I try to help. I don't think it's up to me to decide whether or not it will be used for good or ill. I still feel like I did something to help out a person who asked
Harsh? Not from a Buddhist point of view.
If one is handing out help, in the form of money, or food, or other material items, but expects the receiver of that help to behave in a certain way that meets with the approval of the person giving help.... that is an attempt to 'control' another or the situation.
Much like missionaries who go to other countries to 'feed the poor' but don't necessarily feel obligated to feed those who refuse to listen to their religious lectures or convert to the Christian ways.
That's not help- given freely for the sake of compassion - that's control. A payback system of control. And controlling others stems from ego.
Edited to add:
As far as not knowing the best way to go about helping- that is a cop out. One sees a homeless person cold and hungry in the street, what's to think about?
Give that person a blanket or a warm jacket, give them a hot meal, or give them money for a hot meal. Sooner or later even the most addicted drunk or junkie will opt for food at some point. So either give $$ and let them decide how to soothe their own needs at the moment, or don't give at all. To say one needs to figure out the 'best way to do it' is saying one wants to control.
I live at...
We are such control freaks with our money, that even once it is not ours, we want to tell someone else what to do with it. Someone mentioned only given to shelters and never to those on the street. So what becomes of those who cannot get into a shelter, because it is full? Shelter are wonderful, but they cannot help everyone. I'm not saying giving to them is not worth it, it absolutely is. But it does not mean that the person who gets turned away at the door doesn't deserve anything.
I hope that one day, if I suddenly find myself homeless, that people do not look down on me with disgust, judging why I am asking for their money. I hope they don't spit on me or put their garbage in my cup. I hope they won't assume I'm looking for liquor money when I'm just looking for enough money to bring some Mcdonald's value meal burgers to my kids.
I think of it a lot like any "welfare" program. Sure, there are those who abuse it. But I'm not going to take the chance of not providing someone with something they need because of the few bad apples. Who am I to decide what they need?
I actually went through this lesson with my son. I don't always understand why he wants to do the things he does. But who am I to tell him he shouldn't? Who am I to tell him that my way of doing things is the right way? He's a different person and on a different path, and he is as deserving of compassion as I am, even if he does not do things my way.
Donating/helping a shelter is proactive as opposed to reactive.
We kind of live in a society these days where we shirk personal responsibility and think " oh the government should do it", or "someone else", until we are forced to encounter it first hand.
Also on a side note. I agree with @MaryAnne and @karasti that once you give that money, you should not expect it to be used in a way you see fit,but you will, because it's human nature to want to see your donation used "right". Its sort of like when you let someone in the lane while driving and they don't wave at you and you get a little agitated and think " ungrateful @&@" lol.
they may go and get alcohol or do something else, or if you give them a sandwich they may throw it away because they wanted money for booze, but that does not diminish the act of kindness you performed.
- Are you extravagant? asked Nasruddin.
- Yes Nasruddin, replied the beggar.
- Do you like sitting around drinking coffee and smoking? asked Nasruddin.
- Yes, replied the beggar.
- I suppose you like to go to the baths everyday? asked Nasruddin.
- Yes, replied the beggar.
- ...And maybe amuse yourself, even, by drinking with friends? asked Nasruddin.
- Yes I like all those things, replied the beggar.
- Tut, Tut, said Nasruddin, and gave him a gold piece.
A few yards further on another beggar who had overheard the conversation begged for alms also.
- Are you extravagant? asked Nasruddin.
- No, Nasruddin, replied the second beggar.
- Do you like sitting around drinking coffee and smoking? asked Nasruddin.
- No, replied second beggar.
- I suppose you like to go to the baths everyday? asked Nasruddin.
- No, replied second beggar.
- ...And maybe amuse yourself, even, by drinking with friends? asked Nasruddin.
- No, I want to only live meagerly and to pray, replied the second beggar.
Whereupon the Nasruddin gave him a small copper coin.
- But why, wailed the second beggar, do you give me, an economical and pious
man, a penny, when you give that extravagant fellow a sovereign?
Ah my friend, replied Nasruddin, his needs are greater than yours.
Anyway, for me subsiding an alchoholic's continued drinking doesn't feel like skillful means. Obviously if it does to you, that's fine, but please don't impose your simplistic ideas on the rest of us.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/549386_456283017778647_745901877_n.jpg
I am not "condemning" anyone. Your defensiveness is a little over the top. I too give to organized charities. When one gives to charities, one gives the $$ and relinquishes control of that money to the charity - YOU TRUST they will do the best with the money.
We are talking about beggars on the street in this discussion.
I can't speak for "the rest of us", but in my view it is unseemly to attempt bolster your position by assuming that you have the support of the group.
Put in the position of having to take sides at this point, I will side with the view that donations of any kind should be given then forgotten without prejudice. That is the path to kingly giving.
It's very difficult not to be judgemental before giving but that is a flaw with the giver not a positive quality. That's the way I choose to see it in myself.
I don't think it has to be our nature, the things you describe. I don't get pissed when someone doesn't give me the wave or the nod. Because there have been times I couldn't do it myself and said "Crap, sorry I didn't wave!" and I hope they aren't cussing me out because I couldn't wave for whatever reason. I also don't remain attached to any money I give away, whether it's for taxes or what. I'd prefer it if I could dictate on my W4 what causes I want my taxes to go to, but it doesn't work that way. I simply have to let it go. If I had $5 to a homeless man on the street, I don't give a single second thought to what he'll do with it, or what I hope he'll do with it. So you have the choice to retrain yourself to not think in those ways.
In fact, I would say that people who don't make value judgements have no values.
All human beings are worthy of respect and consideration.
Not just the pretty ones, not just the cuddly ones, not just the sober ones....
If you CAN help a homeless/beggar, you do. If you CAN'T, you can't. If you want to pick and choose who you feel is worthy of help or not, fine. Do so.
But don't call it "wisdom"... it's not. It's judgement. Just call it what it is.
WE ALL DO IT in some way or another. As others have said here, it's part of our flawed selves to be judgmental.
But the idea behind Giving, Kindness and Compassion (from the Buddhist point of view) is to see this flaw of judgment for what it is - and give kindness and compassion without it. That's the lesson here. A lesson we can all learn from and apply, in some way or another, every day of our lives no doubt.
As for value judgments- well, how about we make value judgments about our OWN life and actions.... not others'.
That about wraps it up nicely.....
And they have a separate room for the families that come in.
And that got me thinking of a good example for this discussion. If I have $5 in my pocket that I can give to the homeless today, I'm going to choose to give it to the homeless family, rather than the homeless drug addict.
::: shrugs :::
Peace.
the stronger the delusion of the ownership of things,
the more concern is taken on the passing of things.
I'm just saying, we make A LOT of assumptions that may or may not be true, but most of the time when we make them it is to justify our feelings on the matter. "I feel better giving the money to someone with a child than someone who looks like a drunk" makes us feel like we are doing a terrific good, when in reality giving the money to either is still doing a good. We don't have a CLUE what those 2 people will really use the money for. To think we are capable most of the time of judging someone on the corner based on the 5 seconds we see them isn't really accurate judging. I've misjudged people enough in the past that I try to avoid doing it now.
And BTW, we're a combination of a republic and a representative democracy (it's kinda hard getting 315,451,057 people to vote every time a decision has to be made).
I could go on and on, but I think pints of ale and slaps on the back would be required.
Everything in our country seems run on the self-interest of large corporations, since our SCOTUS decided they were people and all.
But I'm not so sure about our representatives not representing us. How exactly does a Senator represent the people of a state when, for example, half the people are opposed to abortion rights, and the other half have exactly the opposite opinion?
Sorry to go off topic.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you - I don't know which country you live in so ideas relating to the exact social services in your country make this a little difficult. When I was sleeping out in London I ended up at a salvation army soup kitchen that gave away a sandwiches and the like, while I was there I picked up details about a fortnightly cooked meal at a nearby church. At the church they gave me a booklet which listed all the soup kitchens and homeless hostels in London.
How I ended up in the shelter in when I knew that because of the pressure on services in London I wasn't getting anywhere I caught a bus back up north to a city I used to live in about five years previously. I was tryong to find somewhere to keep warm and was spending the night in a 24 hour public lavatory but I couldn't sleep on the floor because drunks had peed all over it. As I opened the door a guy stepped out of the next cubicle he looked down on his luck - I said to him its to dirty to get your head down in here - he replied its too dirty to take my drugs in here he was an addict getting his hit.
He asked me if I had anywhere to go and he proceeded to lead me round all the shelters in the city showing where the were, they told me to call back late afternoon the following day to see if there was a bed. He took me back to his flat I watched lord of the rings on his play station while he snoozed off his hit. The next day he took me to a soup kitchen where I got some breakfast and a change of clothes. I wnet to the shelter the next evening and got a bed. Three days later they got me a bed in a half way house for people with mental health problems.
The funny thing is I've lived in this city for ten years and I've never seen that guy who helped me out again - I hope I do so I can repay his kindness.
Some of us do not know even know the meaning of generosity without having a virtuous debate.
What path are we on? The homeless way? Support only the Sangha?
Thank you for your story Lonely_Traveller. As usual people think they are giving. In fact they are being given an opportunity for generosity . . .
With that said, I probably would give money to a beggar because I'd feel for the individual, knowing that they were a product of their environment and that I was lucky enough to be in a more privileged conditions - and so should share in what prosperity I do have (at least on a personal level). Or, if I don't believe money would help them, I'd try to give them a ride to the nearest shelter or a to a relatives place or where ever they feel they can get some support.
We can't help everyone at the same time, so what are we to do? I'm not criticizing your post, just thinking aloud. If people don't help stop the problem by helping whatever ways they can, then isn't THAT letting the problem continue longer by lessening it? As the saying goes, to the world you are one person, but to one person you might be the world.
In a sense I think our discussion got off track just a tad. The basic question was whether or not it was "ethical" to give money to a beggar. Certainly it's "ethical".
I think the bigger question is what is the wisest way to give money to the needy since each of us has limited funds.
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2006/03/28/features/story02.html
As for what the wisest way to give in cases like these are, I think that's ultimately something that's up to the individual and the specific circumstances involved. There's no one right answer, in my opinion.