The good die young?

Cory

I decided to do this because of a recent post "Nice guys finish last?" Reminded me of it. I think this makes sense a much as I think it is ridiculous. It is hard to imagine, but aren't the good the ones being selfless and putting themselves in harms way to help others. The good also make, for the most part, good decisions. I say for the most part, because everybody makes mistakes and bad decisions. The good are also the ones dying, because the evil are the ones killing. Then again, at first thought, the quote "the good die young" seems ridiculous.

misecmisc1

if we do good to others, happiness will follow us. if we do bad to others, suffering will follow us. whatever we experience now, is the result of our past karma and our present karma.

BhikkhuJayasara

It is best to always reflect that we can die at any time... The how ,why, and when make little difference.

Dakini

This is where "skillful means" is important. The good don't die young if they're skillful about offering their goodness.

karasti

I think we just have a tendency, when someone dies, to focus a lot on their good qualities and so those thoughts that "why are all the good ones taken!" comes to mind. But within that it is also implied "why aren't the people we consider bad people the ones who die instead of our loved ones/the good people." Not a very good way of thinking. Even "bad people" are loved ones to somebody.

upekka

misecmisc1 said:

if we do good to others, happiness will follow us. if we do bad to others, suffering will follow us. whatever we experience now, is the result of our past karma and our present karma.

in other words,
if we have a pleasurable feeling now that means we have done a good kamma (punnabhi-sankhara) before [white kamma]
if we have a not pleasurable feeling now that means we have done a bad kamma (apunnabhi-sankhara) before [black kamma]

so
if we have neither-pleasurable-nor-not pleasurable feeling now
does that mean we have done neither-good-nor bad kamma (anenjabhi-sankhara?) before? [neither white nor black kamma]?

MontrealMonk

Jayantha said:

It is best to always reflect that we can die at any time... The how ,why, and when make little difference.

well said brother

seeker242

OR perhaps the short lived people were the evil ones, just in a past life. Don't know!

Cula-kammavibhanga Sutta: The Shorter Exposition of Kamma

5. "Here, student, some woman or man is a killer of living beings, murderous, bloody-handed, given to blows and violence, merciless to living beings. Due to having performed and completed such kammas, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in a state of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell. If, on the dissolution of the body, after death, instead of his reappearing in a state of deprivation, in an unhappy destination, in perdition, in hell, he comes to the human state, he is short-lived wherever he is reborn. This is the way that leads to short life, that is to say, to be a killer of living beings, murderous, bloody-handed, given to blows and violence, merciless to living beings.

6. "But here some woman or man, having abandoned the killing of living beings, abstains from killing living beings, lays aside the rod and lays aside the knife, is considerate and merciful and dwells compassionate for the welfare of all living beings. Due to having performed and completed such kammas, on the dissolution of the body, after death, he reappears in a happy destination, in the heavenly world. If, on the dissolution of the body, after death, instead of his reappearing in a happy destination, in the heavenly world, he comes to the human state, he is long-lived wherever he is reborn. This is the way that leads to long life, that is to say, to have abandoned the killing of living beings, to abstain from killing living beings, to lay aside the rod and lay aside the knife, to be considerate and merciful, and to dwell compassionate for the welfare of all living beings.

misecmisc1

upekka said:

misecmisc1 said:

if we do good to others, happiness will follow us. if we do bad to others, suffering will follow us. whatever we experience now, is the result of our past karma and our present karma.

in other words,
if we have a pleasurable feeling now that means we have done a good kamma (punnabhi-sankhara) before [white kamma]
if we have a not pleasurable feeling now that means we have done a bad kamma (apunnabhi-sankhara) before [black kamma]

so
if we have neither-pleasurable-nor-not pleasurable feeling now
does that mean we have done neither-good-nor bad kamma (anenjabhi-sankhara?) before? [neither white nor black kamma]?

well, the law of karma is just not sequential, as the past only does not affect what we experience in the present, rather, the effects of past karma and present karma together form the experience which we feel now. moreover, when and by what amount of past karma will ripen into its result - this cannot be predicted. so if we experience neither pleasure nor pain currently, it can happen that whatever activity we are currently involved in is not invoking any such feeling - something like seeing a table, chair, window, wall etc - so the past actions effect may even not be experienced in now, rather only the present actions effect is being experienced in now. then later we can go to market and buy some beautiful clothes and we feel happy, but the money involved in buying those beautiful clothes came from past karma - so in a way our current experience is also depending on our past karma, along with our present karma.

but if we take it in reverse direction, then it is not necessary. for example, doing good will lead to happiness is correct, but saying it in reverse direction - if you are currently happy, then it means you have done a good karma is not correct - because you will be happy based on fulfillment of the defilements in your mind , like fulfillment of your desire, which could have been done through good karma or bad karma ,means, either through skillful way or unskillful way. For example, you eat a toffee and you feel happy, does not mean you did a good karma so you are happy, it could be the case you have snatched that toffee from someone else through force and then you ate that toffee - you feel happy because your mind felt happiness as the desire of eating a toffee was satisfied.

upekka

misecmisc1 said:

our current experience is also depending on our past karma

agree

along with our present karma.

can not agree
because
effect of present kamma (cetana) comes from next moment onwards

but if we take it in reverse direction, then it is not necessary. for example, doing good will lead to happiness is correct, but saying it in reverse direction - if you are currently happy, then it means you have done a good karma is not correct - because you will be happy based on fulfillment of the defilements in your mind , like fulfillment of your desire, which could have been done through good karma or bad karma ,means, either through skillful way or unskillful way.

if you done unskillful kamma, act (cetana) you never experience pleasure (meant real happinss) in related to that unskilful kamma but you may think your desire fullfilled and you are happy,

For example, you eat a toffee and you feel happy, does not mean you did a good karma so you are happy, it could be the case you have snatched that toffee from someone else through force and then you ate that toffee - you feel happy because your mind felt happiness as the desire of eating a toffee was satisfied.

if you get happiness by eating that toffee, you must have been done something good in the past, and definetely you will have to face the consequence in future for snatching the toffee
that snatching the toffee willnever bring you happiness, because you have done an unskillfull deed (unskilfull cetana)

federica

Can't be true.
Am still alive at 55......

Vastmind

federica said:

Can't be true.
Am still alive at 55......

well said sister

misecmisc1

@upekka: well, if our current experience was only based on past karma and present karma would not be shaping our current experience, then it would not be possible to end suffering, rather we would just be following our defiled mind and never able to remove defilements from our mind. But since there is a way out of suffering, so it shows that the current experience is combined effect of both past karma and present karma.

Dandelion

My father was a good man, he died at 54. 'good' is so subjective though, isn't it. There are good and bad in all of us, something he was always mindful of. It was his death that brought me to Buddhism, over about the course of 3 years I pondered, thought, sat and wondered about his death at an early (early for the current times) age and ultimately found myself drawn to a belief about death which in a nutshell goes like this... for reasons unknown to me *KARMA*, it meant he had to go when he had to go. Also, I believe in my current lifetime it is the fruits of my own Karma, over many many lifetimes, that mean I have had to lose both parents whilst I am still young (my mother died aged 57 last yr, just after I had turned 31), and thus, it is part of her own *karmic inheritence* if I may talk about it like that, that meant she also had to go when she did. I talked about this extensively to my husband. He doesn't have the same beliefs as me, but is respectful of them, and helpful.. he was the one that suggested I look into Buddhism. My sisters husband, who is quite psychic, has said that a while after my father passed away, he got a message from him; he could see we were all fine and so he was now going to move on. I do believe he has been re born, and who knows how long his current life will be, or even if he is a 'he'! Interesting observation my sister and I have had; he always wanted to be a carpenter. His parents pushed for him to work in an industry that meant he would earn more money and he became a coppersmith and worked all his life with metals. Back in the day when my father was training, and health and safety was not what it is today, him and his fellow workers did not wear the proper masks to prevent inhalation of metal particles. It is now known, that the inhalation of certain metals cause kidney cancer, which is what my father, and two people he also worked with, also died of. So, was he *destined* to die young because he never really learnt the lesson of being bold enough (something he always struggled with, he was a gentle gentle giant, a dbl edged sword) to follow his own vision for his life, did boldness not come into it at all? Or would his past accumulated Karma have dictated that regardless of his choices in this lifetime, he would have died at the age of 54 anyway? Rhetoric question.. Karma is certainly a fascinating topic, and long may it live! One thing I know I believe without question, is that we certainly reap what we sow, but when we shall reap the rewards, or the disasters and anything in between I do not know.. that comes down to the moment being ripe, and is far to complicated for my little brain to fathom. As a side note, my beliefs in Karma have certainly prevented me from feeling bitter about the loss of my parents, on the contrary it has helped me to accept. I would say the good, the bad, the ugly, the beautiful... can die young, but they can live to a ripe old age, an old age does not necessarily mean they have a happy life anyway. Some people dread death, but their next rebirth might be a really good life, better than the one they currently hold. End of rambling

upekka

sabbe satta bavantu sukitatta!


nabhi nandathi
nabhi wadathi
najjosaya tittathi

footiam

Cory said:

I decided to do this because of a recent post "Nice guys finish last?" Reminded me of it. I think this makes sense a much as I think it is ridiculous. It is hard to imagine, but aren't the good the ones being selfless and putting themselves in harms way to help others. The good also make, for the most part, good decisions. I say for the most part, because everybody makes mistakes and bad decisions. The good are also the ones dying, because the evil are the ones killing. Then again, at first thought, the quote "the good die young" seems ridiculous.

Buddha did not die until he was over 80, I think. Hittler died earlier than that and I read he took his own life.