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is this really about what we wear?

It`s been already longer time when I try to deal with this question. To say it honestly, the situation is like this: I am a young woman, before-few moths ago- I was really focused on my spiritual life (for many years already) and practice. It was a very happy life and I felt peace and harmony in my heart. When I went out, I always focused on nature, walk slowly, smile and don`t care much about serrounding. I used to wear only some simply clothes- modest and not very feminine. I was happy because in fact I didn`t need anything, just satisfied with what I had.
However, last months ,I don`t know exactly why, my mind has changed. I started to want to look more and more feminine, I let my hair grow longer, care more about clothes I wear, sometimes even put some makeup,and so on. Though I feel good and confident with the way I look now, but my heart is not peaceful. I often care about some stupid things, I use too much time thinking about how do I look now, how do people see me. I realized that I became more attached to my look than I thought! I don`t like that it influence my spiritual practice.
Sometimes I think I want to gave my clothes for my sister and come back to my minimalistic happy and free lifestyle. But sometimes I also think- I am young, maybe I should enjoy it for a while before I grow old? Is is really about the clothes?

Maybe you have some thougths on it?

Comments

  • Invincible_summerInvincible_summer Heavy Metal Dhamma We(s)t coast, Canada Veteran
    @so_complicated - how do you feel that it's affecting your spiritual practice?

    Some days you may want to wear makeup, some days you may not. In my opinion, in the grand scheme of things, so long as you aren't causing harm to others or yourself there's nothing wrong with occasionally having the urge to wear something nice.

    It only really becomes a problem if you can't let go of the nice things...
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited March 2013
    In order to overcome our attachment to looking all holy and hermit -like, Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche would require us to dress up on occasion. Men in smart suits, shirts and ties and women in ball gowns and high heels,
    He was keen to remind us that being a hippie was not the aim of Buddha Dharma.
    Lucy_Begood
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Citta said:

    In order to overcome our attachment to looking all holy and hermit -like, Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche would require us to dress up on occasion. Men in smart suits, shirts and ties and women in ball gowns and high heels,
    He was keen to remind us that being a hippie was not the aim of Buddha Dharma.

    That sounds like he didn't like hippie garb much. It's fairly irrelevant to practice. If anything, hippie garb indicates non-attachment to appearances.

    Oh well.

  • CittaCitta Veteran
    It suggests rather that he thought that identification with any particular mode of dressing was an attachment. When he first started to teach in the US everyone who came to him wore hippie garb .......in order to proclaim their individuality. lol.
    So he required us on occasion to hire tux's.
    He realised that we had merely created another way of conforming.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited March 2013
    Well, yes, that was his assumption--that people were identifying with a mode of dress. Maybe some of them were simply low-income, and wore what they could afford. I don't know, I wasn't there--maybe there was a certain amt. of "keeping up (or down) with the Joneses", selecting clothing that looked "cool" in that particular setting. It happens.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    I used to never wear make-up. In high school, I was somewhat of a radical feminist and viewed make-up as a symptom of impossible standards of beauty imposed on women. So, I rebelled against that for a long time... but then somewhere along the lines, I gave in and started wearing it for work. In truth, being attractive allows me to earn a lot more money and make-up is a big part of that. I feel like at this point a lot of people will want to disagree with me and say, "You can be beautiful without make-up!" which is, of course, true. But if you think about make-up as a tool like an artist might think of a paint pallet, all it really does is heighten contrast and draw attention to certain features which are revered in our culture. There was a study that gave a group of individuals two pictures of a face and asked that they pick out the male from the female. In fact, they were the same face, but one had heightened contrast added digitally. The study showed that it's actually the 'contrast' that is what people identify as feminine.

    But anyways, like you, I've noticed that the more effort I put into it... the more I care about it. The more frequently I wear make-up, the less comfortable I feel without it. I don't necessarily have the answer here, but I do know that I frequently force myself to go out without make-up on just to keep myself from getting too obsessed. Woman beauty culture is so crazy, with all of the products and standards of beauty that are constantly being pushed on us. I mean, come on, who thought it was a good idea to make women walk on stilts? Why is that the norm for a sexy woman? It really is quite disturbing when you pay attention to it. It's disturbing that in the past, at jobs where I wouldn't typically wear make-up, if I was to wear it one day, men and women alike would suddenly gush to tell me how great I looked. It's the little things like these that teach us what is expected of us. I still rebel against this notion, but sometimes I also give in. I think the key is just being aware of it.

    I think, on some level, what you might be rebelling against is the attention. You may have found that wearing make-up and dressing nice earns you more attention when you go out. This is attractive, but it can also be more complicated. Sometimes it is easier to dress and look plain and just slip under the radar of not having to worry.

    Ultimately, I don't think the issue is just about the clothes or the make-up themselves, but rather, the way that the clothes and the make-up change the way you interact with your environment. At least, this is how it seems to me. It may also be about the way you feel when you're dressed up. Is feeling confident and sexy just feeding the ego? Maybe. I think only you can really answer these questions for yourself because the answer is going to vary from woman to woman. The best place to start is to observe how you feel dressed up vs. plain. What is it that you find attractive about dressing up and is it worth the new found burden? Imo, make-up becomes an issue when you start to feel bad about yourself without it.
    Dakini
  • lobsterlobster Crusty Veteran
    One of the male dervishes I knew on another forum started wearing the hijab as solidarity and identity in a world convinced appearance and behaviour is indicative of worth. Another famous dervish would wear a mattress strapped to his back.

    My teacher would be pointed out and laughed at for his strange appearance on occasion.

    Let me put it like this: would you put make up on the Buddha, depict him as a woman and get him to wear a sari?
    I would.

    You are not your femininity, maleness or your dress.
    Be radiant. Be Buddha. Have fun.

    :clap:
    Lucy_Begood
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited March 2013
    Dakini said:

    Well, yes, that was his assumption--that people were identifying with a mode of dress. Maybe some of them were simply low-income, and wore what they could afford. I don't know, I wasn't there--maybe there was a certain amt. of "keeping up (or down) with the Joneses", selecting clothing that looked "cool" in that particular setting. It happens.

    I think CTR knew his students rather well.
    He knew that in terms of dress, food , and general lifestyle we were building an alternative self identity instead of seeing the limits of self identity.

    See his book " Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism ".

  • Most "Hippies" dressed the way they did to separate themselves from The Establishment, AKA; "The Suits", "The Man", the Authority figures of the time... not to necessarily be individualistic amongst themselves. Although there was still plenty of room for that, as well, if one chose to go really wild...

    Do you really believe they were so dumb as to not notice that THEY were all pretty much dressing the same (as a general group)?

    It was also a way to identify those of a like mind - socially and politically. Their mode of dress was an outward sign of solidarity within a movement- a movement with (admittedly) several agendas and levels of "out there" - but a movement nonetheless.

    In my opinion, it was foolish of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to make an issue out of the way US "hippies" dressed, especially since he misunderstood the significance, but also because as @Dakini said, it is irrelevant to practice and understanding.
  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Moderator
    I haven't worn makeup since I was about 17 years old, and that was for my prom, lol. I've never had a problem getting a job because of it though. I have really sensitive skin so most makeups irritate me, and the ones that don't I refuse to pay that kind of money for. But that is just who I am.

    If you feel it has become a problem, why do you feel that way? You can be a compassionate person, a spiritual person, a balanced and whole person even in nice clothes and makeup and done-up hair. It's still about what is within you that truly matters. If you can no longer see what is within you because of what is on the outside, why not?

    My mom is one of the most spiritual people I know these days. But she's also one of the "highest maintenance" as well. While I will go to the grocery store in my velour yoga pants, my mom won't even pump gas without makeup on, lol. It is just what works for her, and because it is not a problem for her, it is not a problem for anyone.

    What you wear (whether on your face or body) has little to do with your ability to practice. But for some reason you seem to think it does and only you can discover why that is. Perhaps you attached too much of your spiritual side to your lack of wearing certain things and now you feel like you lost it. Maybe you could try getting up earlier so you can practice, walk, maintain the simpler side of yourself before you dress up for the day, and then after work or whatever, dress down again. So that you can enjoy both parts of yourself. It's ok to do that.
    lobsterFireSong
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    MaryAnne said:


    Most "Hippies" dressed the way they did to separate themselves from The Establishment, AKA; "The Suits", "The Man", the Authority figures of the time... not to necessarily be individualistic amongst themselves. Although there was still plenty of room for that, as well, if one chose to go really wild...

    Do you really believe they were so dumb as to not notice that THEY were all pretty much dressing the same (as a general group)?

    It was also a way to identify those of a like mind - socially and politically. Their mode of dress was an outward sign of solidarity within a movement- a movement with (admittedly) several agendas and levels of "out there" - but a movement nonetheless.

    In my opinion, it was foolish of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to make an issue out of the way US "hippies" dressed, especially since he misunderstood the significance, but also because as @Dakini said, it is irrelevant to practice and understanding.

    Well obviously MaryAnne we could bat " yes he did " and " no he didnt back and forth..the fact is CTR had a very subtle understanding of western culture. When I first met him he spoke little English ..I then met him again about three months later and he spoke English with a wide vocabulary and a Received Pronunciation accent...really.
    For the first few years after he founded Samye Ling monastery in Scotland the retreatants were about 95% hippie.
    When he moved to the US that trend continued in Tail Of The Tiger and Karma Dzong his American centres at that time.
    He wanted to make the point that being orientated towards the establishment or being anti establishment were just two alternatives. That real freedom in social terms was in being able to move effortlessly between all positions and identify with none.
    Hence the formal balls and suits and dresses. This was only occasional btw. Most people still attended teachings most of the time in jeans and tees.
    He never allowed us to settle down to a comfortable fixed routine, that is typical of many Vajrayana teachers.
  • CittaCitta Veteran
    edited March 2013
    Incidentally he really loved Scottish culture and had a tartan designed for him and his family..right up until just before his death he would on occasion appear in full Highland gear including a kilt. :p Infa ct if you google ' Trungpa in a kilt ' you can see a picture of him in full regalia.
  • MaryAnneMaryAnne Veteran
    edited March 2013
    Please don't misunderstand.... I'm not disparaging CTR personally in any way, I'm sure he is/was a wonderful teacher and wise man, but honestly we all make mistakes, and IMO he merely misunderstood or misinterpreted the "Hippies' dress code" as it were. But (according to what you told me) it seems he instigated a very interesting teaching tool/situation - I'll give him that. No disrespect intended.
    :)
  • Again the middle way, enjoy things that are wise to enjoy, but do not attach to them.. Why do you think you should have to not care much about your surroundings to be happy? One should take in their surroundings to learn the dharma, that is how we progress. Ignoring is the opposite of what we should be doing, observing and reflecting is what we should be doing.
  • footiamfootiam Veteran
    edited March 2013

    It`s been already longer time when I try to deal with this question. To say it honestly, the situation is like this: I am a young woman, before-few moths ago- I was really focused on my spiritual life (for many years already) and practice. It was a very happy life and I felt peace and harmony in my heart. When I went out, I always focused on nature, walk slowly, smile and don`t care much about serrounding. I used to wear only some simply clothes- modest and not very feminine. I was happy because in fact I didn`t need anything, just satisfied with what I had.
    However, last months ,I don`t know exactly why, my mind has changed. I started to want to look more and more feminine, I let my hair grow longer, care more about clothes I wear, sometimes even put some makeup,and so on. Though I feel good and confident with the way I look now, but my heart is not peaceful. I often care about some stupid things, I use too much time thinking about how do I look now, how do people see me. I realized that I became more attached to my look than I thought! I don`t like that it influence my spiritual practice.
    Sometimes I think I want to gave my clothes for my sister and come back to my minimalistic happy and free lifestyle. But sometimes I also think- I am young, maybe I should enjoy it for a while before I grow old? Is is really about the clothes?

    Maybe you have some thougths on it?

    In my society, sometimes it is really about what we don't wear. So, it is okay, I suppose if you care about what you wear. Each of us,you see, is different.
  • Maybe you can indeed try to find out what is behind this. To whom do you want to look attractive? Does it depend on the person, or do you also feel the need to look good in the company of your grandmother?
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