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But i do not believe they should be able to marry.
I don't believe you should be allowed to marry. Now what?
Fine by me if i ever find someone i love truly id rather experience love than "marriage".
Frankly, you're being dense. Lincoln isn't talking about your preferences. He's talking about someone taking away your rights. Not giving you the option of marrying.
Your marriage, if you are lucky to have one, is what YOU make it. You don't base your marriage on the happiness or lack thereof of other couples. You make it what you want it to be with your partner, but not relying on them for your happiness. But all people deserve the equal right to try. Also, say you do find the person you love. And your family doesn't approve. And you live your life with this person for decades, because you wanted love, not marriage. And then when your partner falls ill and is in the hospital and unable to make decisions, their family swoops in and makes all those choices, with no regard for you. They request you are not allowed to visit, because you are not family. You are not considered in the decisions made, even though you spent 30 years with that person and know better than their family what they want. And then your partner dies. And you don't get to say goodbye. You don't get to go to the funeral. The life you built together is torn apart by the family who didn't approve of you.
If you want to play hardcore tough Buddhist man and claim none of this would matter to you, then I feel sorry for you. Because you can't love someone for years of your life and not care about any of those things happening to you and your relationship.
@vinlyn o well in that case my previous comment was that gays should be recognized politically as a couple and receive the same benefits as married couples.
Frankly, calling people names doesnt improve on anything that moves to a good resolution.
You understand that under the laws of most states and the US government, people are not entitled to those rights unless they are legally married, right? That might not what you want to be the case, but it IS the case. You have to be legally married to get the hundreds of rights that exist in the state and federal governments. Such as the right to visit and say goodbye to your loved one on their deathbed. The right to hold their hand and comfort them. The right to be responsible for the decisions that need to be made. The right to determine who should get the property you share. What if you have children together and the family decides the house that was in your partner's name should be sold? And so on.
Your marriage, if you are lucky to have one, is what YOU make it. You don't base your marriage on the happiness or lack thereof of other couples. You make it what you want it to be with your partner, but not relying on them for your happiness. But all people deserve the equal right to try. Also, say you do find the person you love. And your family doesn't approve. And you live your life with this person for decades, because you wanted love, not marriage. And then when your partner falls ill and is in the hospital and unable to make decisions, their family swoops in and makes all those choices, with no regard for you. They request you are not allowed to visit, because you are not family. You are not considered in the decisions made, even though you spent 30 years with that person and know better than their family what they want. And then your partner dies. And you don't get to say goodbye. You don't get to go to the funeral. The life you built together is torn apart by the family who didn't approve of you.
If you want to play hardcore tough Buddhist man and claim none of this would matter to you, then I feel sorry for you. Because you can't love someone for years of your life and not care about any of those things happening to you and your relationship.
Surely if there family loved her they would realize that she chose to spend her 30 years together because we shared something we couldnt find elsewhere. Through compassion for her they should give me a say if not of course it would be rather depressing but in the end i could still tidy up the final resting place (if she was buried some place).
Its beyond me if people choose to follow something that isnt based on good morals.
Look up all the stories online, blu3ree. No matter how much you wish it was the case, doesn't mean it always is. Look up the story of what happened to Shane Bitney Crone and Tom Bridegroom. It happens all the time. Just because you can't fathom that people turn their backs on their children (or adult children) doesn't mean it doesn't happen. That's exactly why gay people need to be able to protect their relationships. Not to mention even people who are tolerant, go into a completely different mode when someone dies unexpectedly. They may have tolerated the relationship but that doesn't mean they are going to react rationally when their loved one dies.
Marriage as an institution is not a natural state. It was introduced so males could ensure their property was inherited by their "legitimate" offspring. The old "I, me, mine" again - and the antithesis of Buddhist ethics.
If you're worried about who will inherit your cd collection if you step under a juggernaut tomorrow then pop along to a lawyer and get them to draft a will.
Marriage as an institution is not a natural state. It was introduced so males could ensure their property was inherited by their "legitimate" offspring. The old "I, me, mine" again - and the antithesis of Buddhist ethics.
If you're worried about who will inherit your cd collection if you step under a juggernaut tomorrow then pop along to a lawyer and get them to draft a will.
And for what reason, then, did early and more "primitive" societies like Native America and African and such always have strong marriage traditions, when there was no property to inherit worth such a huge change in a person's life? Certainly state-sanctioned marriage was all about the legal transfer and ownership of property. Even today, the benefits that exist only with a marriage are why it's cherished so much. Doesn't matter what you put in your will, the government is going to take a big chunk of your partner's estate if they die and give it to you in their will, unlike a marriage. Spotty state laws giving a halfway "civil union" are no substitute.
A will does not solve all. Look at the case of the elderly lady who took her case to the supreme court. She lost a huge portion of what she should have gotten (and were her lesbian partners wishes) even though it was willed to her legally because of the rules governing taxing estates for people who are lot legally married. Yes, it's just about money. But if you live in a world where you don't rely on money, where you don't rely on retirement to support your life and your wellbeing when you are too old to work, well, then good on you. Most of us don't live in that world and pretending money doesn't matter is just silly. It certainly doesn't matter to the extent some people make it out to, but the fact is it is a requirement in today's world if you want to support yourself when you get older. And part of that means insurance and other payments when your partner/spouse dies, and that is often denied to gay couples EVEN when a will is present. If the partnership was not legal the family can much more easily contest it, and win.
And if you don't want a marriage, then that's terrific, don't have one. But don't use your beliefs on what marriage is or isn't to deny it to others.
And if you don't want a marriage, then that's terrific, don't have one. But don't use your beliefs on what marriage is or isn't to deny it to others.
If that's addressed to me, I'm not denying you anything. The OP was asking for the views of Buddhists on this issue. I gave my view the same as you gave yours.
I realize that. And I didn't say you were denying me anything. I'm already married. Just don't use your beliefs on marriage to take away the rights of those who do want to be legally married (ie for voting against their right to marry because of how you feel about marriage in general)
A will does not solve all. Look at the case of the elderly lady who took her case to the supreme court. She lost a huge portion of what she should have gotten (and were her lesbian partners wishes) even though it was willed to her legally because of the rules governing taxing estates for people who are lot legally married.
Brings this doco to mind--no one should have to go through this:
Comments
Ive met alot of couples that are married and still there is no everlasting happiness and joy.
If you want to play hardcore tough Buddhist man and claim none of this would matter to you, then I feel sorry for you. Because you can't love someone for years of your life and not care about any of those things happening to you and your relationship.
Frankly, calling people names doesnt improve on anything that moves to a good resolution.
Surely if there family loved her they would realize that she chose to spend her 30 years together because we shared something we couldnt find elsewhere. Through compassion for her they should give me a say if not of course it would be rather depressing but in the end i could still tidy up the final resting place (if she was buried some place).
Its beyond me if people choose to follow something that isnt based on good morals.
If you're worried about who will inherit your cd collection if you step under a juggernaut tomorrow then pop along to a lawyer and get them to draft a will.
And if you don't want a marriage, then that's terrific, don't have one. But don't use your beliefs on what marriage is or isn't to deny it to others.
Bravo!