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personally I think you both have valid points, at least im trying to see both sides from a 3rd party if you will. but, back to topic here... @fivebells im hoping you will elaborate some... again i ask naifs ??? and what makes you think I have a schtick?
If your child is trying to touch the hot oven, you say "its hot don't touch" He tries again, you get slighty annoyed, and a bit more firm "its HOT don't TOUCH" He tries again, and you get slighty angry now "STOP!!" He tries again and now your anger is stronger, you slap the childs hand "DO NOT TOUCH ITS HOT!!!" the child crys from being scolded. You wipe his tears, out of compassion and explain the dangerous situation of a hot oven.
thought this was a short talk on anger, not a drawn out demonstration... "You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by your anger." - the Buddha
thought this was a short talk on anger, not a drawn out demonstration... "You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by your anger." - the Buddha
Exactly. That's why I decided to hush up. I noticed the irony of my posts before you did. Trust me.
Here is a great way I use anger for my practice and study which benefits others/self.
I bring it back to the body. Stop seeing the person or situation as the problem. Just bring it back to the somatic experience of anger.
Then relax. Think about my vows. Think about how anger is destructive. How anger causes harm to self and other.
That usually calms the anger down. And give me motivation for practice. I need to meditate and practice more so that I can deal with my negative reactions so that I don't offload them onto others or myself.
So anger can be a strong condition to reexamine our practice, our goals, ideals, etc. Anger can bring us back to what really matters to us.
Anger is also a very honest emotion. There isn't much wishy washy mystery. Anger arises for a reason and that reason is clear, yet it is completely samsaric because the anger is given outward reference and inward reference. So anger can only arise when we give substantiality to things outside and inside.
So its a great object to deconstruct using analytic emptiness meditations. How solid is the anger? How solid is the situation or person that caused the anger? Is there good in anger? Or is it purely negative?
The inquiry is truly endless.
Well unless you're a Buddha and anger can literally no longer arise because there are no conditions to support it.
But then you have people who are aggressive, angry and afflicted all around. And then from the pov a Buddha that vision of anger and suffering beings becomes the condition for compassion and dharma teachings.
One day! Ha until then we try our best to avoid anger and if we can use anger in a positive way cool.
When anger arises (or any other defilement) that is the place to practice. How are we supposed to overcome anger if we don't understand it, if we don't see how harmful it is and if we don't know what the roots of anger are. Yes, we can read books and articles about it but what better way to understand anger than to experience it with mindfulness.
To become motivated to let go of anger, my teacher always emphasized the importance of contemplating the harmfulness of it. Of course, we can look at how anger has caused suffering in the world, and there is plenty of examples of that, but it doesn't really compare to looking at situations in which we were personally involved.
So when you become angry, don't let it go to waste! Make it your teacher. Reflect on the suffering it caused you and the other person who was the target of your anger. Reflect on how differently you would have behaved if you had not been afflicted by anger. The more we see the harmfulness of anger, the more we will become motivated to learn the skills for letting go of anger.
Anger that arises within us also provides the opportunity for us to reflect on the root cause of anger. The usual way of thinking is that, s/he did that, said that to me which was wrong and therefore I'm angry. We tend to always focus on the external causes rather than the internal ones and we immediate blame the external factors for our suffering. Yet upon contemplation, it is possible to recognize the internal factors and basically we can come to the realization that this anger arises out of our own delusions such as the belief in the existence of a self. "S/He" did that to "Me"; "S/He" said that and it hurt "My" feelings; "S/He" did that to "My" friend and "I" don't like that; "S/He" caused "Me" to suffer, etc. So basically, we contemplate in order to see that it wasn't the other person's actions that is the root cause of our suffering. Rather it was our own delusion that "S/He" exists, that "I" exist with feelings that are "mine", etc. Through this kind of contemplation we also come to understand that our happiness does not lie in changing the external factors, it's not about making this or that person behave in a different way or in the way that we want them to, or to get them to understand us or whatever so that we will no longer have to be angry at them. Those aren't the real solutions to our problems. The only way that really counts is to change ourselves by gaining the wisdom to free us from our delusions.
So the anger we experience can help us become more resolved in our wish to overcome anger as well as give us an opportunity to study the root causes of anger. In addition, we also get to practice our skills at countering anger whether it is through generating compassion, reflection on karma, pure mindfulness, contemplation on non-self, etc. If we didn't get angry then we wouldn't have the chance to practice and learn about which methods work best in the various kinds of situations we have to face in real life. As the saying goes, practice makes perfect.
Finally, when anger arises, if we try to recollect the fact that anger is like a friend who can teach us many lessons, then the more we will be able to see the people who made us angry as our teachers and also see that we have reason to be grateful to them.
“If a man is crossing a river and an empty boat collides with his own skiff, even though he be a bad-tempered man he will not become very angry. But if he sees a man in the boat, he will shout at him to steer clear. If the shout is not heard, he will shout again, and yet again, and begin cursing. And all because there is somebody in the boat. Yet if the boat were empty, he would not be shouting, and not angry. If you can empty your own boat crossing the river of the world, no one will oppose you, no one will seek to harm you…. Who can free himself from achievement, and from fame, descend and be lost amid the masses of men? He will flow like Tao, unseen, he will go about like Life itself with no name and no home. Simple is he, without distinction. To all appearances he is a fool. His steps leave no trace. He has no power. He achieves nothing, has no reputation. Since he judges no one, no one judges him. Such is the perfect man: His boat is empty.” Osho
The biological basis is the ability to protect (our space, food, mate) It is primal. In a civil society we may be acting like angry apes over non biological threats.
I once spent a year doing voluntary work. Every day, except two, I practiced Qigong. On the two days I had angry interchanges (over imagined slights). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong
Through Buddhist meditation my anger dissipates, no longer arises as much. This is guaranteed. It seems it works for most of us . . .
I have no use for anger, I am not trying to be a better ape but a Buddha.
I have been an incredibly angry person, hair triggered, screaming obsceneties, throwing stuff, crazy angry. Early one day I was walking along the beach and saw this young dude throwing his surfboard down on the sand screaming at it, jumping on it, picking it up and throwing it again, out of control, explosively angry. I was shocked (and a little disturbed and frightened) at this display of violent behaviour. Suddenly I thought OMG, that's me when I get angry and it's affected me ever since. The kids surfboard hadn't done anything wrong but he was blaming it for his problem. I'm sure if someone videoed us when we're having an anger episode and played it back to us after we'd calmed down, we'd be as shocked as I was seeing that young man vent his anger on his surfboard. The empty boat theory would have prevented the surfer from his outburst (if he'd applied it) and its in the back of my mind ready to leap to the fore if and when I suspect an episode is looming. Luckily I've improved out of sight with the help of my therapist and Zen principles and I am eternally grateful.
I never get out of control and start breaking sh** but im happy you had witnessed the guy thrashing his surfboard plus finding a path in zen. Thats an inspirational story
I have been an incredibly angry person, hair triggered, screaming obsceneties, throwing stuff, crazy angry. Early one day I was walking along the beach and saw this young dude throwing his surfboard down on the sand screaming at it, jumping on it, picking it up and throwing it again, out of control, explosively angry. I was shocked (and a little disturbed and frightened) at this display of violent behaviour. Suddenly I thought OMG, that's me when I get angry and it's affected me ever since. The kids surfboard hadn't done anything wrong but he was blaming it for his problem. I'm sure if someone videoed us when we're having an anger episode and played it back to us after we'd calmed down, we'd be as shocked as I was seeing that young man vent his anger on his surfboard. The empty boat theory would have prevented the surfer from his outburst (if he'd applied it) and its in the back of my mind ready to leap to the fore if and when I suspect an episode is looming. Luckily I've improved out of sight with the help of my therapist and Zen principles and I am eternally grateful.
"Would that God gave us the grace to see ourselves as other people see us" (Robbie Burns)
Anger is a 'no' from the heart to something. It is the distortion of seeing outside situation as an attack or obstacle.
So you can see the homeless man and say 'no' to his suffering and give him food. That is how undistorted anger can be compassionate.
Compassion isn't one particular emotion. It is spontaneous and it is spun out of the present moment.
Undistorted anger is loaded with creativity to solve the problem. First you have to dissempower the ego and delusions. Then the anger can just snuff out to clarity like a basketball player goes 'in the zone' to make a jumpshot. When the man gives the bum money the anger can be let go ie energy dissipate as stress hormones are consumed.
Comments
but, back to topic here...
@fivebells im hoping you will elaborate some... again i ask naifs ???
and what makes you think I have a schtick?
"You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by your anger."
- the Buddha
When it comes to adults? Still workin' on that.
I bring it back to the body. Stop seeing the person or situation as the problem. Just bring it back to the somatic experience of anger.
Then relax. Think about my vows. Think about how anger is destructive. How anger causes harm to self and other.
That usually calms the anger down. And give me motivation for practice. I need to meditate and practice more so that I can deal with my negative reactions so that I don't offload them onto others or myself.
So anger can be a strong condition to reexamine our practice, our goals, ideals, etc. Anger can bring us back to what really matters to us.
Anger is also a very honest emotion. There isn't much wishy washy mystery. Anger arises for a reason and that reason is clear, yet it is completely samsaric because the anger is given outward reference and inward reference. So anger can only arise when we give substantiality to things outside and inside.
So its a great object to deconstruct using analytic emptiness meditations. How solid is the anger? How solid is the situation or person that caused the anger? Is there good in anger? Or is it purely negative?
The inquiry is truly endless.
Well unless you're a Buddha and anger can literally no longer arise because there are no conditions to support it.
But then you have people who are aggressive, angry and afflicted all around. And then from the pov a Buddha that vision of anger and suffering beings becomes the condition for compassion and dharma teachings.
One day! Ha until then we try our best to avoid anger and if we can use anger in a positive way cool.
To become motivated to let go of anger, my teacher always emphasized the importance of contemplating the harmfulness of it. Of course, we can look at how anger has caused suffering in the world, and there is plenty of examples of that, but it doesn't really compare to looking at situations in which we were personally involved.
So when you become angry, don't let it go to waste! Make it your teacher. Reflect on the suffering it caused you and the other person who was the target of your anger. Reflect on how differently you would have behaved if you had not been afflicted by anger. The more we see the harmfulness of anger, the more we will become motivated to learn the skills for letting go of anger.
Anger that arises within us also provides the opportunity for us to reflect on the root cause of anger. The usual way of thinking is that, s/he did that, said that to me which was wrong and therefore I'm angry. We tend to always focus on the external causes rather than the internal ones and we immediate blame the external factors for our suffering. Yet upon contemplation, it is possible to recognize the internal factors and basically we can come to the realization that this anger arises out of our own delusions such as the belief in the existence of a self. "S/He" did that to "Me"; "S/He" said that and it hurt "My" feelings; "S/He" did that to "My" friend and "I" don't like that; "S/He" caused "Me" to suffer, etc. So basically, we contemplate in order to see that it wasn't the other person's actions that is the root cause of our suffering. Rather it was our own delusion that "S/He" exists, that "I" exist with feelings that are "mine", etc. Through this kind of contemplation we also come to understand that our happiness does not lie in changing the external factors, it's not about making this or that person behave in a different way or in the way that we want them to, or to get them to understand us or whatever so that we will no longer have to be angry at them. Those aren't the real solutions to our problems. The only way that really counts is to change ourselves by gaining the wisdom to free us from our delusions.
So the anger we experience can help us become more resolved in our wish to overcome anger as well as give us an opportunity to study the root causes of anger. In addition, we also get to practice our skills at countering anger whether it is through generating compassion, reflection on karma, pure mindfulness, contemplation on non-self, etc. If we didn't get angry then we wouldn't have the chance to practice and learn about which methods work best in the various kinds of situations we have to face in real life. As the saying goes, practice makes perfect.
Finally, when anger arises, if we try to recollect the fact that anger is like a friend who can teach us many lessons, then the more we will be able to see the people who made us angry as our teachers and also see that we have reason to be grateful to them.
“If a man is crossing a river and an empty boat collides with his own skiff, even though he be a bad-tempered man he will not become very angry. But if he sees a man in the boat, he will shout at him to steer clear. If the shout is not heard, he will shout again, and yet again, and begin cursing. And all because there is somebody in the boat. Yet if the boat were empty, he would not be shouting, and not angry. If you can empty your own boat crossing the river of the world, no one will oppose you, no one will seek to harm you…. Who can free himself from achievement, and from fame, descend and be lost amid the masses of men? He will flow like Tao, unseen, he will go about like Life itself with no name and no home. Simple is he, without distinction. To all appearances he is a fool. His steps leave no trace. He has no power. He achieves nothing, has no reputation. Since he judges no one, no one judges him. Such is the perfect man: His boat is empty.”
Osho
The biological basis is the ability to protect (our space, food, mate)
It is primal. In a civil society we may be acting like angry apes over non biological threats.
I once spent a year doing voluntary work. Every day, except two, I practiced Qigong.
On the two days I had angry interchanges (over imagined slights).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong
Through Buddhist meditation my anger dissipates, no longer arises as much. This is guaranteed. It seems it works for most of us . . .
I have no use for anger, I am not trying to be a better ape but a Buddha.
I'm sure if someone videoed us when we're having an anger episode and played it back to us after we'd calmed down, we'd be as shocked as I was seeing that young man vent his anger on his surfboard. The empty boat theory would have prevented the surfer from his outburst (if he'd applied it) and its in the back of my mind ready to leap to the fore if and when I suspect an episode is looming. Luckily I've improved out of sight with the help of my therapist and Zen principles and I am eternally grateful.
So you can see the homeless man and say 'no' to his suffering and give him food. That is how undistorted anger can be compassionate.
Compassion isn't one particular emotion. It is spontaneous and it is spun out of the present moment.
Undistorted anger is loaded with creativity to solve the problem. First you have to dissempower the ego and delusions. Then the anger can just snuff out to clarity like a basketball player goes 'in the zone' to make a jumpshot. When the man gives the bum money the anger can be let go ie energy dissipate as stress hormones are consumed.