Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
The time intervals @rivercane mentions, and the "deep" meditation experiences, strongly suggest that he is talking about sitting meditation, though.
I think it's fair to say that if you're not doing sitting meditation, you're missing out hugely. It doesn't matter whether you say it's right or wrong to miss out, you're missing out.
I try to meditate every day, about 20 minutes (sometimes less, as @Karasti says, children and life sometimes interrupt). I think more might be beneficial, but life is complicated. I find that even 10 minutes of meditation helps me manage stress and stay more mindful the rest of the day. It's like playing finger exercises to warm up before playing regular pieces. Meditation helps me work on the skills I need to deal with life.
Yes, I know, I read it. But if you follow the conversation we were discussing sitting meditation, for the most part. I was referring to where the conversation had gone, not just the OP. I totally agree that there are forms of meditation other than sitting, obviously walking would be one, mindfulness in daily life can be another, heck I find mowing the lawn quite meditational (not a word, oh well!). But most of the discussion has been around sitting meditation, unless I completely read the entire thing wrong. Which is possible, LOL. The issue came up when MaryAnne mentioned that she doesn't practice sitting meditation so much, and someone argued with whether someone can not practice sitting meditation and still say they follow the Eightfold Path. That is where I was going with my comment.
Mary Anne is correct. The 8FP can be followed by those who never practice sitting . It is important to see that what we call for convenience " meditation " i.e..samadhi , is not a method. It is a RESULT of one pointedness of mind. And a number of skillful means ( upaya kausalaya ) can led to one pointedness. They include sitting and watching the breath, or mantra, or walking mindfully, or bare attention in any position..
Goal #1: Creating lots of good karma for a better rebirth My advice: Meditate! Reason: Meditation produces the highest level of merit/good karma (followed by practice of virtue and then practice of generosity)
Goa1 #2: Lessening one's own suffering/ Just want to have "a peaceful, sympathetic life" My advice: Meditate! Reason: Root cause of suffering is greed, anger and delusion. Meditation is most effective at lessening greed, anger and delusion. Less greed, anger and delusion also equals less suffering and a more peaceful, sympathetic life.
Goal #3: Lessening other people's suffering My advice #1: Meditate! Reason: Meditation is most effective for purifying one's own behaviour thus we end up causing less harm to others (due to being less greedy, angry and deluded through meditation) My advice #2: Encourage others to meditate! Reason: Through meditation, they can effectively lessen their own greed, anger and delusion. Thus they will lead more peaceful life with less suffering.
Goal #4: Reaching Enlightenment My advice: Meditate! Reason: Meditation will lead to the development of wisdom. Conclusion: Meditate and encourage others to meditate
I don't get the whole attitude of "Well, Asians who grew up with Buddhism don't meditate! See, it's not important! They know what's what and it's foolish to question them!"
Let's flip it around - do you see most Westerners who grow up with Christianity go to church every single week (maybe even twice a week), pray every day, and tithe exactly 10% of their earnings every month? Probably not. Not even most self-proclaimed Christians do that. So I think it's silly to assume that whatever Asians do w/ Buddhism is the prime example of what a Buddhist lay follower should do.
Your average Asian isn't the archetypal Buddhist, just because he/she lives in a traditionally (which is a key term here) Buddhist society, much like how your average Westerner won't be a good gauge for the practice of a Christian just because he/she grew up in a traditionally Christian society (like in some European countries).
I think it's worth noting that Pure Land Buddhism is probably the most popular Mahayana tradition in East Asia, whose population dwarfs that of the Theravada countries. As mentioned earlier, chanting is the main practice, not seated meditation (although the goals may be similar).
It's also interesting that when people "convert," they tend to be more "hardcore" with the practices, rites, and rituals. Most people I know who grew up in a Christian family just went to church on Sundays, maybe participated in the church occasionally, prayed when they felt like it. But I know some Koreans who converted to Christianity and go to church almost every day, pray multiple times a day, read the Bible every day, etc.
I think a similar phenomenon happens when Westerners "convert" to Buddhism.
That may be true (though I can't claim to know what every teacher studies. One lama I retreated with emphasized mantra chanting far more than meditation), but again, not everyone is a Buddhist, or follows Buddhist principles to reach enlightenment. Enlightenment may be out there, but it's not a concern for me in my daily life. I am concerned with lessening suffering for myself and those around me right now, and only right now. What comes of that in the future is of little concern to me at this point, and I would be more than happy to be reborn again. I rather hope my time as a human isn't quite over, and thus enlightenment is not important to me right now.
The Buddha taught for the purpose of ending suffering here and now and not for gaining the so called "enlightenment" in some future place.
Isn't lightening the suffering the purpose of "enlightenment"? Not enheavyment. Why should enlightenment be a concern for the future?
The Dhamma is sanditthiko - Self-evident; immediately apparent; visible here and now.
Just wondering how many people here meditate every day or more than once a day? I wanted to set this up as a poll but didn't see that option.
For the past couple of years, I could only manage to meditate a few times a week. Then sometimes I would not meditate at all for weeks at a time. It's really been a struggle for me to learn to discipline myself enough to mediate. It's as if I wanted to do it, but had to force myself.
Now I seemed to have turned a corner around the start of the new year and I find it fairly easy to meditate every day. It's something I look forward to. So far this year, I've only skipped a few days and some days I will meditate two or three times throughout the day. I usually meditate for about 40 minutes in the evening but will sometimes go for an hour or longer. I find it is more difficult in the morning and usually I will only meditate for about 20 minutes in the morning and then maybe a quick 10 minutes around noon.
So far I can count the number of "deep" meditation experiences I've had on one hand, even after trying for a few years, but I've found that meditating every day has really helped me learn to settle my mind much quicker than when I first started to meditate. I've gotten used to letting go of thoughts as they arise whereas in the past my entire meditation session was spent dealing with trying to clear my mind of thoughts.
Not really. I use to meditate fairly often, then it was down to a couple days a week, and now it's averaging once or twice a month. These last few months in particular have been rather busy and difficult for me, and my practice has definitely suffered for it.
I started a new job this year that doesn't pay very well and constantly changes my schedule (a schedule that's at least been consistent enough to prevent me from going to the Tuesday night sits at Miao Fa Temple), I've been spending a lot of time with friends, both new and old, my mom was seriously ill recently, and in the midst of it all, I've been dealing with a large number of relatively small-yet-annoying things that seem to have a knack for materializing at the most inopportune times.
That's life, I suppose, and what the practice is for; and mine's certainly helped keep my head above water. But at the same time, I've rarely been to either of my weekly meditation group sittings, I've been drinking a lot more than usually, and I'm starting to feel the weight of all the shit that life's collectively dumping on me. I can almost feel myself exhausting the results of my past hard work and becoming indistinguishable from a typical 'worldling.' This weekend, however, I have to opportunity to head down to Abhayagiri for their Upasika Renewal Day on Saturday, and I'm hoping it'll be a new beginning of sorts.
I know better than to make any promises to do x, y, and z, since all my best laid plans never turn out like how I fantasize they will; but I'm going to try to put in the effort to get back into some kind structured practice and hope that I'll manage to at least half-assedly follow through.
3
DaftChrisSpiritually conflicted. Not of this world.Veteran
I shouldn't as much as I probably should, but I do go to a local Hindu temple most Fridays for a 20 minute meditation and will soon visit local Buddhist monasteries for the same thing.
0
DaftChrisSpiritually conflicted. Not of this world.Veteran
I've had a hard time adjusting to my kids being home for the summer. Usually during the school year I simply set my alarm for earlier, get up, do my meditation, and then wake them up. But in the summer, I have the hardest time waking up early! Plus one of my kids is an early waker, and he is often up before me. I try to make an extra effort to get in some quick meditations, before I get out of bed, before bedtime, when I'm outside, or whatever. It does help but it's not the same. I just wish I could stop being lazy. I do the same thing with regular exercise in the summer. I get out of my routine and everything goes to hell, LOL. My oldest has early morning team practice, so he is up by 6:15. Getting up at 5:45 just is SO early when I don't get to bed until midnight. Excuses, excuses. I find I struggle when my routine is upset at all. I'm not sure how to get around it. I even set my alarm and I'll consciously sit there and think "you set the alarm so you could meditate, now get off your arse and do it" and then instead I decide bed is better, and go back to sleep, lol. I had a problem with sticking to my meditation when I injured my knee, too, because I couldn't sit on the floor and had a hard time doing it any other way.
:bawl: You know it, I know it and the fish know it. I suggest self flagellation . . . well OK that might lead to medieval kinky spirituality . . . What I do is grab a mala and pulse squeeze it continually until the bed snoozing ego realizes, bed + awake = dukkha. :wave:
@karasti.....yes, the adjustment to a summer schedule usually takes me a couple of weeks to get used to...I was determined this year, to try to make it a smoother transition...It's getting better...haha
Comments
I think it's fair to say that if you're not doing sitting meditation, you're missing out hugely. It doesn't matter whether you say it's right or wrong to miss out, you're missing out.
It is important to see that what we call for convenience " meditation " i.e..samadhi , is not a method. It is a RESULT of one pointedness of mind.
And a number of skillful means ( upaya kausalaya ) can led to one pointedness. They include sitting and watching the breath, or mantra, or walking mindfully, or bare attention in any position..
My advice: Meditate!
Reason: Meditation produces the highest level of merit/good karma (followed by practice of virtue and then practice of generosity)
Goa1 #2: Lessening one's own suffering/ Just want to have "a peaceful, sympathetic life"
My advice: Meditate!
Reason: Root cause of suffering is greed, anger and delusion. Meditation is most effective at lessening greed, anger and delusion. Less greed, anger and delusion also equals less suffering and a more peaceful, sympathetic life.
Goal #3: Lessening other people's suffering
My advice #1: Meditate!
Reason: Meditation is most effective for purifying one's own behaviour thus we end up causing less harm to others (due to being less greedy, angry and deluded through meditation)
My advice #2: Encourage others to meditate!
Reason: Through meditation, they can effectively lessen their own greed, anger and delusion. Thus they will lead more peaceful life with less suffering.
Goal #4: Reaching Enlightenment
My advice: Meditate!
Reason: Meditation will lead to the development of wisdom.
Conclusion: Meditate and encourage others to meditate
Let's flip it around - do you see most Westerners who grow up with Christianity go to church every single week (maybe even twice a week), pray every day, and tithe exactly 10% of their earnings every month? Probably not. Not even most self-proclaimed Christians do that. So I think it's silly to assume that whatever Asians do w/ Buddhism is the prime example of what a Buddhist lay follower should do.
Your average Asian isn't the archetypal Buddhist, just because he/she lives in a traditionally (which is a key term here) Buddhist society, much like how your average Westerner won't be a good gauge for the practice of a Christian just because he/she grew up in a traditionally Christian society (like in some European countries).
I think it's worth noting that Pure Land Buddhism is probably the most popular Mahayana tradition in East Asia, whose population dwarfs that of the Theravada countries. As mentioned earlier, chanting is the main practice, not seated meditation (although the goals may be similar).
It's also interesting that when people "convert," they tend to be more "hardcore" with the practices, rites, and rituals. Most people I know who grew up in a Christian family just went to church on Sundays, maybe participated in the church occasionally, prayed when they felt like it. But I know some Koreans who converted to Christianity and go to church almost every day, pray multiple times a day, read the Bible every day, etc.
I think a similar phenomenon happens when Westerners "convert" to Buddhism.
Isn't lightening the suffering the purpose of "enlightenment"? Not enheavyment. Why should enlightenment be a concern for the future?
The Dhamma is sanditthiko - Self-evident; immediately apparent; visible here and now.
mindfulness is a huge chunk of time. 'Meeting the moment'.
I started a new job this year that doesn't pay very well and constantly changes my schedule (a schedule that's at least been consistent enough to prevent me from going to the Tuesday night sits at Miao Fa Temple), I've been spending a lot of time with friends, both new and old, my mom was seriously ill recently, and in the midst of it all, I've been dealing with a large number of relatively small-yet-annoying things that seem to have a knack for materializing at the most inopportune times.
That's life, I suppose, and what the practice is for; and mine's certainly helped keep my head above water. But at the same time, I've rarely been to either of my weekly meditation group sittings, I've been drinking a lot more than usually, and I'm starting to feel the weight of all the shit that life's collectively dumping on me. I can almost feel myself exhausting the results of my past hard work and becoming indistinguishable from a typical 'worldling.' This weekend, however, I have to opportunity to head down to Abhayagiri for their Upasika Renewal Day on Saturday, and I'm hoping it'll be a new beginning of sorts.
I know better than to make any promises to do x, y, and z, since all my best laid plans never turn out like how I fantasize they will; but I'm going to try to put in the effort to get back into some kind structured practice and hope that I'll manage to at least half-assedly follow through.
What I do is grab a mala and pulse squeeze it continually until the bed snoozing ego realizes, bed + awake = dukkha. :wave:
takes me a couple of weeks to get used to...I was determined this
year, to try to make it a smoother transition...It's getting better...haha