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Enlightenment
SillyPutty
Veteran
I'm sure this has been asked before, but...,
Once you are enlightened, is it something you always experience, or could you lose it at any moment if not constantly "working" on it?
Also, if you decide to come back again in human form to help others, do you instantly remember and realize that you are enlightened? Or do you have to relearn the process all over again in some fashion? Or do you just stay in nirvana and don't bother returning and help from afar?
Once you are enlightened, is it something you always experience, or could you lose it at any moment if not constantly "working" on it?
Also, if you decide to come back again in human form to help others, do you instantly remember and realize that you are enlightened? Or do you have to relearn the process all over again in some fashion? Or do you just stay in nirvana and don't bother returning and help from afar?
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At the level of full enlightenment ignorance of the nature of reality has been completely removed so there is no wrong perception of the world and thus no basis for further becoming or no ground upon which to build the house of rebirth.
As for coming back to help, this is a Mahayana teaching and it is the bodhisattva that has a degree of enlightenment and is able to control their rebirth. They say that when they come back they don't already know what they learned before but due to their familiarity with the teachings over many lives they can learn very quickly or even immediately upon hearing only a little bit, kind of like Jason Bourne in the Bourne Identity, where he didn't remember anything but he just kind of knew how to do stuff.
This would be the stage of major openings. At this initial stage it can be 'lost'. Get here and your second question becomes suitable for those Bourne again . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subitism
(ATTRIBUTED to the Buddha, but....you know...)
I don't think enlightenment is the end of the line. There is still a lot of work to do. I think it would be instilled as a kind of instinctual awareness. I doubt we would remember exactly though because of that old saying that goes something like "How can I possibly taste a tea properly without emptying my cup of the old tea?" For the truly awakened, I imagine the only way to rightly stay in the nirvanic (if that's even a word) state is to transcend time. To turn away from those of us who can still not see would be to see that we are all there already.
The only way I wouldn't want to come back to help is if I'm still just way too stupid when I pass.
The Ten Bodhisattva Bhūmi (Sanskrit; Tibetan "byang chub sems dpa'i sa", enlightenment-being grounds/levels) are the ten stages on the Mahayana bodhisattva's path of awakening.
I think it is said that once the 6th level is reached, there can no longer be losing of anything.
No pain. No gain.
On that note, if it does happen in a sudden flash of a moment, does that mean you had to be pretty darn near perfect for it to happen? Would you have to extinguish all of the desires, attachments, emotions, etc. first before even getting to that state, or could you still be somewhat "imperfect" before that "a-ha!" moment hits you and changes your being forever?
I believe enlightenment is just an 'ah' understanding... ahhh now i get it
I dont believe we have to extinguished all of the desires, attachments, emotions, etc....
Oh, Sons of the Victorious One!
the three realms are only mind
~the Garland of the Buddha Sutras
1. mind does not exist when examined through momentariness.
2. mind does not exist since it has not been seen by anyone, and
3. since there are no objects, no mind exists
~Jewel Ornament of Liberation
What is the bondage of all bodhisattvas, and what is liberation? Wisdom awareness not supported by method is bondage; wisdom awareness supported by method is liberation. Method not supported by wisdom awareness is bondage; method supported by wisdom awareness is liberation
~The sutra shown by Vimalakirti
Outer things do not exist, nor not exist.
Mind also is completely without fixation
Having abandoned all views
Is the characteristic of non-arising
~the Gone to Lanka Sutra
There are quite a few Zen/Chan stories about "A-ha!" moments (arguably stemming from the Flower Sermon ). From my understanding, most Theravadan schools focus on eliminating defilements as a pre-requisite for nibbana.
Maybe next life or the one after
The problem with this question is while there is a "you" to ask such a question, it's real answer requires the transcendence of everything that created this "you".
It helps if you go back and ask yourself what each "you" written in your posting actually is?
I do not remember the book I read this in (it was some book about the life of the Buddha), but it affected me profoundly.
Probably because I was raised in the practice of yoga, and the attitude that the joy of meditation WAS the goal. And Buddha was saying it wasn't the goal.
From the quote, though, it would appear that full enlightenment is a permanent state. However, until full enlightenment, we may be in that headspace for a period of time, but revert back to our usual habitual ways. We can have an "ah-hah" moment, but we still have habits of thinking and responding, and these overtake us .. until we have retrained them.
I'm not saying you are doing so but just for the sake of conversation, claiming that in reality there is no "you" or "I" is misleading and only glimpses at half the truth in my opinion (which, granted isn't worth all that much but I like to discuss things).
"You" and/or "I" may not exist independently or as an abiding thing we can truly label but we do exist sure enough as this conversation can attest. Even though so much has changed since I started typing, I know that right now at this very moment I am typing. Not to say I'm a typist because as soon as I stop typing, there is no longer a typist.
You can approach this question on a worldly level where everything is viewed from a them & us perspective.
or
you can consider this a physiological question with its proportional measurement of selfish intent compared to selflessness
or
you can walk the path towards the cessation of suffering where identity, which only manifests through our habituated intents, falls away according to our willingness to let it go.
I make no claims that there is no me. Only that my sense of separation to the rest of existence is simply a product of my own Skandha make up and it's corresponding attachments. To the degree that I am willing to let go of my attachments seems to be the same degree that this identity dissipates. The path towards the cessation of suffering is about letting go of our chains of ignorance, not of our existence.
Unless you equate enlightenment with true selflessness, the straight answer to a worldly self perspective of the numerous "You's" in the OP's opening question will just be heard as an oxymoron.
If instead you examine what each of those "You's" of the OP's question are actually comprised of, then what was formally assumed to be a solid entity, may be seen as ethereal enough to manifest as enlightenment's answer.
Just another page from the Buddha's story of the mustard seed.
Great answer, thank you. Your posts usually give me pause to think and I dig that.
I think a verb would more properly describe us than a bunch of nouns but when in Rome...