Some questions concerning Zen?

Bodhivaka

Hello, everyone!

It's been quite a while since I've visted the forum, but with my recent spike of interest in Zen Buddhism I decided it might be helpful to come here and perhaps get some of my questions resolved.

1. Do Zen Buddhists believe in the Four Noble Truths, the Noble Eightfold Path, the Three Marks of Existence, the Ten Precepts, etc?

2. Even though Zen Buddhists don't place any emphasis on the importance of scripture, do they accept the teachings contained in the Pali canon?

3. Do Zen Buddhists hold that Zazen meditation is superior to other forms? If so, why?

Thanks to everyone in advance for helping me understand! Any answers are greatly appreciated!

lobster

Zeniths are Buddhists and Mahayanists, so yes they believe and accept, study and make use of Buddhist and Mahayana resources.

Zen is deeply influenced by aspects of Taoism from what I know. Superior? Inferior?
Yin and Yang . . .

Anyway I am not qualified to answer being newly and merely enlightened.


I also feel there is a deep simplicity in Insight meditation, Zen meditation, Samatha etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samatha

:wave:

mfranzdorf

The answers to your questions could fill a book. I too have somewhat recently attempted to "understand" , but you will find that there really isn't anything to understand about Zen, only things to understand about you and your surroundings.

Honestly, I'm not trying to sound like I know much ( I clearly do not!), but, do some reading and you will soon discover that there is really nothing to it. So much nothing that it will overwhelm you.

misecmisc1

i have been studying zen teachings for few months now, through internet, by the web-pages and videos of dhamma talks given by zen monks. i am a Hindu. based on what i have read on internet, i will try to answer your questions. my thinking says: zen says that every moment is complete in and of itself. zen buddhists, i think, do not directly put emphasis in the 4NT, 8FP etc - rather their view of Nirvana is slightly different from Therevada view. the practice is to be done every moment. zen says zazen is the expression of Buddha-nature, zazen is not considered as just a way of sitting meditation, rather it is regarded as the expression of the way of life. in zazen, we just sit and observe whatever arises, by becoming open to everything, no holding on to anything, no rejecting anything. zen is a branch of mahayana buddhism - with ultimate goal of realization of emptiness and compassion. so Samsara and Nirvana both exist in the here and now. so this is not to say that zen buddhists deny 4NT, 8FP etc - but the more importance is given to what is being experienced in the here and now - be it sitting on cushion or daily life activities. the approach is whatever is learnt while sitting in zazen, the same thing should be carried in daily life. giving importance to whatever arises in here and now - without philosophizing or thinking about it, rather just experiencing it. dogen said - to see delusion as delusion is enlightenment itself. we all are already enlightened, but we need to practice because we have forgotton this fact. so by practicing, we help ourselves to realize our true nature.

seeker242

Bodhivaka said:

Hello, everyone!

It's been quite a while since I've visted the forum, but with my recent spike of interest in Zen Buddhism I decided it might be helpful to come here and perhaps get some of my questions resolved.

1. Do Zen Buddhists believe in the Four Noble Truths, the Noble Eightfold Path, the Three Marks of Existence, the Ten Precepts, etc?

Generally yes except for the last five Theravada precepts that include not eating after noon, high seats, etc. Zen generally follows the "10 grave precepts" or the "16 Bodhisattva Precepts". The first 5 are the same, the next 5 are different. http://www.sfzc.org/zc/display.asp?catid=1,5,13,136&pageid=33

Monks of course follow many more than that.

The "zen version" of the "noble 8 fold path" is generally considered the "perfection of the 6 paramaitas" They are very similar. You could even say that each is fully contained within the other. http://www.naljorprisondharmaservice.org/pdf/SixParamitas.htm

2. Even though Zen Buddhists don't place any emphasis on the importance of scripture, do they accept the teachings contained in the Pali canon?

Generally yes.

3. Do Zen Buddhists hold that Zazen meditation is superior to other forms? If so, why?

Not necessarily but it depends on who you ask and how "technical" you want to get about it.

:om:

genkaku

@Bodhivaka -- It is natural to ask what Zen Buddhists believe ... right up until the moment you begin to practice. Belief and hope inspire action but are limited in ways that practice is not.

For tentative purposes, Zen guys and gals make use of what comes to hand. Scriptures, precepts, rituals -- all this a more like it are OK. I once asked my teacher about belief and hope. He said, "For the first four or five years (of practice), belief and hope are necessary." And after that, I asked? "After that," he said, "they are not so necessary."

There is no way to skip over or sidestep what is necessary. Everyone finds his or her own necessities, hopes, beliefs, etc. But with practice, the tentative nature of such things becomes more comfortably apparent. It's not a question of what's better and what's worse, what's wise and what's deluded ... it's just a question of what is actually relevant. Practice answers that question ... teachers cannot.

lamaramadingdong

FWIW- how I came to Zen- I read all I could on all schools of Buddhism, learning the basics of Buddhism in general and different types in specific. For me, Zen is about having all this information as an underpinning, but then letting all of it drop and practicing a form of Buddhism that transcends the words.

Dakini

@lobster After Enlightenment, the laundry.

zenff

Who cares what Zen Buddhists believe, or should / should not believe?
To hell with Zen Buddhism.
The real question is what you believe.

how

In a world of monkeys in shoes, the footwear rules. Unfortunately because Zen monkeys can be so unwilling to conform, they can be found wearing just about anything.
And yes although the Truth, the light and the way can be found in the "right " pair of shoes, this type of evangelism is really just about evangelists, not Zen.

wrathfuldeity

OP my answers
1...Zen
2...No Zen
3...Wut Zen

seeker242

lamaramadingdong said:

FWIW- how I came to Zen- I read all I could on all schools of Buddhism, learning the basics of Buddhism in general and different types in specific. For me, Zen is about having all this information as an underpinning, but then letting all of it drop and practicing a form of Buddhism that transcends the words.

How I came across zen was funny. The zen story or koan (Nansen Cuts the Cat in Two) of the guy putting shoes on his head was my very first exposure to any Buddhism. I said "Killing cats, shoes on the head?? WTF is this!? This is just plain stupid! That just ridiculous! Shoes on the head, how dumb is that!" Completely dismissing zen as plain nonsense.

Then I looked all the other types of Buddhism. Other religions too like Hinduism, Taoism, etc. Somehow I made the way back to zen about a year or two later and said "Yup, this shoe on the head thing is where it's at"

Bodhivaka

Thanks for your answers, everyone! It seems Zen is just one of those things that's meant to be practiced, not understood.

Invincible_summer

"Sit down and shut up!" -- Brad Warner

riverflow

"Shut up and play yer guitar!" -- Frank Zappa