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Just come across this 'news' story about a documentary that's about to be shown. I was sceptical anyway but when they said he was buried alongside more than a thousand jewels I feel it's even less credible.
It makes about as much sense as the hundreds (if not thousands) of Buddha relics (bones, skull pieces, hair) of Buddha that you will find all over Southeast Asia. And incidentally, these body parts have the magical power to replicate themselves.
Its said when the Buddha passed into nibanna flowers rained from the sky, sandlewood filled the air and the very tress bowed down to him... Fast forward to king ashoka time of rule, who is responsible for carving the words of The Buddha onto the famous pillars. Its very possible, that he, having had a great deal of respect for The Buddha offered these jewels. The documentary leads one to assume the Buddhas body was moved to a location king ashoka was responsible for. If he knew the "story" of the flowers and trees bowing then perhaps he saw fit to offer these jewels. Most of them were in the shape of flowers. And what was also found in the casket was a very interesting pot...Youll have to see the documentary about that, I dont want to give it away. I was a bit skeptical as well..but Im not anymore.
..Youll have to see the documentary about that, I dont want to give it away. I was a bit skeptical as well..but Im not anymore.
I'm in the UK so I doubt if it'll be shown over here unless it's on ScyFy, ComedyCentral, one of the porn or evangelical channels. It might make it onto YouTube I suppose.
There are probably a metric ton of bones and ashes that are supposed to be the remains of the Buddha scattered around the East. I remember several years ago, a temple in China that was in desperate need of repairs announced they'd by some miraculous coincidence discovered a fingerbone of Buddha hidden in a cave under the temple, carried there by missionary monks way back when. They soon had the donations they needed for repairs from the many Buddhists making the pilgrimage to the temple. I remember thinking that was one crafty handful of monks who found a way to fix their home and give people a bit of what they really wanted.
Drink the water, breathe the air. It's the same that the Buddha drank and inhaled. He's all around us, as is every thing that has ever lived on earth.
This is the way I look at it. The whole of existence is recycled, there are possibly atoms in me that were part of the Buddha and other atoms that were part of a distant star a thousands/millions of years ago.
Would people that understood Buddhism or Buddha have thought it appropriate to bury him with a small fortune in jewelery?
Haven't seen the documentary. But what I know of the culture at that time suggests Buddha would have had plenty of followers who had not one iota what he was teaching, there were so many wandering teachers back then that it was common practice to follow one of them, if not several. There will have been plenty of people willing to offer jewelry to a dead shramanic teacher in the hope of karmic reward.
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zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
edited July 2013
MODERATOR NOTE:DISCUSSIONS MERGED:
Caught an interesting documentary last night on PBS that is available for free off of their website if anyone else is interested. A nice sampling of history, mystery, and great views of many of the stupas and pillars built by Ashoka.
The mystery surrounding the bones of the Buddha dates back more than 100 years ago, when colonial estate manager William (Willie) Peppe and his workers began digging at a mysterious hill in Northern India. Peppe had no idea what they’d find just a little more than 20 feet down. They unearthed an astonishing discovery: a huge stone coffer, containing five reliquary jars, more than 1,000 separate jewels – carved semi-precious stones and gold and silver objects – and some ash and bone. One of the jars bore a Sanskrit inscription which, when translated, stated the jar contained the remains of the Buddha himself.
Doubt and rumors of forgery have overshadowed this remarkable find dividing, Buddhist scholars for more than 100 years. Many believe the whole thing is an elaborate hoax. Others insist the tomb on Peppe’s estate is no less than the final resting place of the leader of one of the world’s great religions, a sage who died nearly 2,500 years ago. For the doubters, suspicion focuses on a key figure from the time, disgraced German archaeologist Dr. Anton Fuhrer.
Renowned historian Charles Allen sets out to solve this extraordinary mystery, once and for all. Is the little-known monument in Northern India really the Buddha’s tomb? Is the find genuine? And if it is, who created it and when?
zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
edited July 2013
Hah, I caught this documentary last night and for a second, thought I had double posted! I have a link to the pbs site where you can watch it for free in the discussion I started.
SPOILER ALERT: If you watch the documentary, they were able to deduce based on the workmanship that it was Ashoka who created the tomb and the stupa itself. At the time of Buddha's death, it was said that his remains were separated eight ways. Apparently, originally the Buddha was buried in very humble pottery until about 150 years later when Ashoka discovered Buddhism and made it his mission to create a lasting legacy. Ashoka dug up the original burials and reburied the Buddha in more elaborate stupas of his own creation. To my knowledge, this was the only stupa to actually be exhumed because prior to the discovery, it just looked like a big mound of dirt. Apparently, it was one of the missing stupas but there are many others that are well known. An amature archaeologist found it on his property, exhumed it, and it wasn't until he had the inscription translated that he became aware of what he had found.
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
Thanks for sharing the link, apparently it expires Aug 6 on their website so catch it while you can.
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zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
I really enjoyed it and hope others take a look at it so we can have a nice critical discussion
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
The doc was pretty thorough in explaining the reasons for the conclusions it made. It seems almost certain that at least Ashoka believed that the remains he created the new tomb for were the Shakya's portion of the Buddha's remains.
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zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
@person Did you happen to see what happened to the "remains" at the end? I somehow missed where they ended up... Are they still in the vase or did they end up burying them again when they reconstructed the stupa? I was wondering if they were going to carbon date the bones, but they never did...
If that really is the Buddha's tomb, where did all the Buddha teeth and bone parts that are in stupas and temples around Asia come from?
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zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
@Dakini They say in the doc that after the Buddha's death, his remains were supposedly divided up eight ways. This stupa was suspected to be the "Saki"(?) portion based on location.
@Dakini They say in the doc that after the Buddha's death, his remains were supposedly divided up eight ways. This stupa was suspected to be the "Saki"(?) portion based on location.
Hm, something for everyone, then? Well, it certainly is plausible that Ashoka would want to create a fine burial for the Buddha, to honor him.
I wonder why they haven't found Jesus' tomb? You'd think someone like that would have been given an important burial. Or maybe not, if the Romans had control of his remains, and considered him a criminal.
The most often body part memorialized seems to be Buddha's breast bone (because it is near the heart?), although at one point 3 years ago a temple in Bangkok (Wat Yannawa) displayed what was supposed to be part of his brain. Sift down through this blog (not mine) to see a pic of Buddha's supposed brain: http://www.travelfish.org/blogs/thailand/2012/12/05/bangkoks-wat-yannawa/
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personDon't believe everything you thinkThe liminal spaceVeteran
I m very skeptical to most of the relic findings and buddha's brain? well this just seems a bit much to me. I have more faith with any connections from Ashoka and relics or anything Ashoka did/create/ etc
@person Did you happen to see what happened to the "remains" at the end? I somehow missed where they ended up... Are they still in the vase or did they end up burying them again when they reconstructed the stupa? I was wondering if they were going to carbon date the bones, but they never did...
I was thinking they mentioned that the bones were sent to King Rama 5 in Thailand... not exactly sure tho...
Given that even from earliest times people were clamoring for the sacred remains of Buddha (evidenced by dividing the ashes up at the beginning) and also given the near universal tendency of ancient and modern purveyors to "manufacture" relics, all that can ever be said about this tomb is that the person who constructed it thought he had the ashes of Buddha or wanted people to think he had the ashes of Buddha. We could possibly prove those were human ashes, if we have any bone chips, etc. That's it.
Shortly after the Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and declared it the official religion of Rome, his mother went on a pilgrimage to the holy land to collect relics. It seemed there was already a steady stream of people and the woman brought back all sorts of stuff like parts of the cross, etc. Three hundred years after the death of Jesus and she managed to find the true cross? But hey, the locals made sure she left happy.
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zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
Hm. Does anyone know what happened to the other thread I started with the link to the video? Just wondering why it was closed. I don't think I violated any rules as the link was right from the PBS website who owns the program.
Hm. Does anyone know what happened to the other thread I started with the link to the video? Just wondering why it was closed. I don't think I violated any rules as the link was right from the PBS website who owns the program.
Would like to know for the future.
I note above it says: MODERATOR NOTE:DISCUSSIONS MERGED
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zombiegirlbeating the drum of the lifelessin a dry wastelandVeteran
Hm. Does anyone know what happened to the other thread I started with the link to the video? Just wondering why it was closed. I don't think I violated any rules as the link was right from the PBS website who owns the program.
Would like to know for the future.
I note above it says: MODERATOR NOTE:DISCUSSIONS MERGED
The relics found at Piprawah are most likely real. The discovery was made by the owner of the land, but the archaeologist who verified the find was later kicked out for fraud in a seperate matter. The urn containing the relics had writing in genuine Ashokan era bhramani script which could not have been forged at the time. This is a genuine Ashokan burial stupa, but there is no guarantee that Ashoka himself got the original remains. The relics themselves were donated by the British to Rama V as a concilliatory gesture towards Thailand and are now at Wat Saket (the Golden Mount) in Bangkok.
I thought Buddha after having been cremated, had some of his remains in stupas in different locations in India. There is hardly any jewels there, just bricks and near Varanasi where one powerful man took the bricks of one such stupas to be recycled, there is just a box there housing what is believed to be part of the remains. He threw that away into the river. Anyway, let's not make bones about all these. It's the teaching that is important.
I thought Buddha after having been cremated, had some of his remains in stupas in different locations in India. There is hardly any jewels there, just bricks and near Varanasi where one powerful man took the bricks of one such stupas to be recycled, there is just a box there housing what is believed to be part of the remains. He threw that away into the river. Anyway, let's not make bones about all these. It's the teaching that is important.
Yes, the teachings are what is most important about Buddhism, or any other religion. But, the beliefs of adherents is not unimportant or irrelevant.
Comments
Fast forward to king ashoka time of rule, who is responsible for carving the words of The Buddha onto the famous pillars.
Its very possible, that he, having had a great deal of respect for The Buddha offered these jewels. The documentary leads one to assume the Buddhas body was moved to a location king ashoka was responsible for.
If he knew the "story" of the flowers and trees bowing then perhaps he saw fit to offer these jewels. Most of them were in the shape of flowers.
And what was also found in the casket was a very interesting pot...Youll have to see the documentary about that, I dont want to give it away.
I was a bit skeptical as well..but Im not anymore.
Caught an interesting documentary last night on PBS that is available for free off of their website if anyone else is interested. A nice sampling of history, mystery, and great views of many of the stupas and pillars built by Ashoka.
Watch Bones of the Buddha on PBS. See more from Secrets of the Dead.
SPOILER ALERT:
If you watch the documentary, they were able to deduce based on the workmanship that it was Ashoka who created the tomb and the stupa itself. At the time of Buddha's death, it was said that his remains were separated eight ways. Apparently, originally the Buddha was buried in very humble pottery until about 150 years later when Ashoka discovered Buddhism and made it his mission to create a lasting legacy. Ashoka dug up the original burials and reburied the Buddha in more elaborate stupas of his own creation. To my knowledge, this was the only stupa to actually be exhumed because prior to the discovery, it just looked like a big mound of dirt. Apparently, it was one of the missing stupas but there are many others that are well known. An amature archaeologist found it on his property, exhumed it, and it wasn't until he had the inscription translated that he became aware of what he had found.
I really enjoyed it and hope others take a look at it so we can have a nice critical discussion
I wonder why they haven't found Jesus' tomb? You'd think someone like that would have been given an important burial. Or maybe not, if the Romans had control of his remains, and considered him a criminal.
I have more faith with any connections from Ashoka and relics or anything Ashoka did/create/ etc
Shortly after the Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and declared it the official religion of Rome, his mother went on a pilgrimage to the holy land to collect relics. It seemed there was already a steady stream of people and the woman brought back all sorts of stuff like parts of the cross, etc. Three hundred years after the death of Jesus and she managed to find the true cross? But hey, the locals made sure she left happy.
Would like to know for the future.
Interesting article about the issue.
The relics themselves were donated by the British to Rama V as a concilliatory gesture towards Thailand and are now at Wat Saket (the Golden Mount) in Bangkok.