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Dealing with kids
buddhakai
Explorer
I am a father of 2. I have been a practicing buddhist for a little over 5 years. My 6 year old daughter does NOT listen to anything, EVER!!! She lies to me, she tries to steal things from the store (we buy her plenty of stuff), she tells my wife and myself that she hates us, she tries to hit and bite and scratch my wife (for some reason not me) and she is always mean to her 2-year old brother. She throws extreme fits about everything. As soon as something doesn't go her way or she's told no, she throws herself on the floor and screams and cries, and will not calm down or listen to reason at all. I have tried everything, talked to Montessori teachers, Non-violent communications workshops, we even tried counselling (complete joke and not helpful at all), and nothing seems to make a difference. I was not beaten, or abused as a child, but I was spanked and disciplined relatively harshly when I acted out or threw fits (although I never threw fits like my daughter does, I even asked my parents if I was just forgetting these.). Is it buddhist to spank your children lol? I don't know what to do here, and I feel like I don't want her to think that we're mean and awful people, but I feel like trying to just be kind and compassionate all the time is, if anything hurting the situation and making her feel like she can do whatever she wants. I do put my foot down with things, but it typically ruins the whole day when that happens; she will scream and cry and say terrible things, and just be all around grouchy for the entire rest of the day. HELP!!!! PLEASE!!!! I don't know how to handle this the buddhist "right" way.
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Comments
Is she truly mean-spirited, or spoiled?
Personally, I don't think setting definitive boundaries about behavior has anything to do with Buddhism, either for or against.
And I am not opposed to an occasional spanking, if done for the right reason and with the right intensity. If done to inflict pain, then I would say it would be against the Precepts.
I'll be interested to see other responses. I'm not sure there is one answer, or even a right answer.
Allergies?
Food intolerance?
hearing difficulties? (Deafness? hyperacusis?)
Behavioural disorder?
it may not be anything you have done or haven't done....
It seems to me that she needs her support system undermined. Give her the silent treatment. Ignore her and withdraw all tokens of affection for a while. Make her feel unvalued and unloved without overtly saying so. It may be that she needs to start growing up and realize that the world does not revolve around her. Maybe she's been over indulged?
Just walk away when you can. She's not suffering, she's only putting on a show. Let her entertain herself but not you (I am using the word "entertain" in a general way here.).
.???.
Refraining from yelling at her, and maintaining a peaceful stance, is all very well, but if it ain't working, then it's not worth diddly-squat.
She reads it as you being placid and not reacting.
When she misbehaves, do not react angrily.
merely pick her up and remove her from the room and put her in the hall, (or somewhere isolated but where you can still 'keep an eye on her' on a chair, as her "quiet place".
Note this, and note this well: in order to make her stay there for the alloted time, you may have to keep putting her on this chair for a good, long period of time.
I know some parents who calmly, but firmly insisted for OVER AN HOUR until the child finally - FINALLY!! - remained in the chair until called.
Parents have different techniques.
But when a technique you have exercised for a long time has proven ineffective, then it's time to change the technique, and find a new method.
She may be willful - but you need to be stronger than she is, and contain her tantrums, in such a way so as she may not hurt herself, but she realises it's unacceptable, and that she will be ostracised until she learns her behaviour is anti-social and counter-productive.
Also, inform the school about this.
Ask them for advice.
She may well be the little Angel there, but I bet they have other kids who play them up.What is their policy//course of action with them?
her perception will be that certain behaviour elicits praise, other behaviour elicits being ostracised.
Incidentally, this is a tried, tested and proven method when dealing with wilful, obstinate and 'dominant' dogs and horses.
It's text-book behaviour modification, and is also practised by primate/simian groups with young who over-step the line.
It's perfectly okay, and works.
"You misbehave, you'll be separated, ignored and put aside until you understand that level of behaviour is not acceptable or social.
When you integrate, join in amicably and behave in a polite and social manner, you can 'come back in' and you'll be praised for good behaviour to high heaven!!"
I'm also wondering if this is attention seeking behaviour. Do you pay much attention to her when she is quiet and well behaved? She may have learned the way to get your attention is to play up.
But whatever you do, you have to be consistent and both parents need to be on board. If one parent always gives in to the tantrum, they just learn they can get their way by acting out to that parent. You both have to be willing to put your foot down no matter how much she resists. Remember, you're her parent, not her friend. It's your job to teach her, whether that makes her grumpy or not. She needs your guidance.
@buddhakai I don't understand why you say this "But I (we) have chosen to take on the role of her parents/guardian". Other things that I've read that you've posted, makes me think that you're NOT her blood parents. Was she born into your family, or did you adopt?
You cannot be different things to her until she has the discerning logic to be able to differentiate FOR HERSELF what roles people fill.
You are her mother and father.
Your moods may change, your attitudes may vary. Who you are to her, has to be a constant.
Just because we give birth to children, doesn't mean we're given children we know how to parent. It's a long road. I have a difficult child myself. Rinse, repeat, over and over and over again with consequences and such.
You said that you buy her stuff, but do you really know what her *needs* are? You listed all the things she has, and they sound great, but that doesn't mean those things are meeting her needs. It could be any variety of things causing the problem, and you can only start with one at a time. It could be an actual psychological disorder, it could be diet like someone else said (diet can have a HUGE influence on kids behavior) it could be that she is that out of touch with her emotions and needs a lot of direction into identifying her feeling and finding appropriate ways to cope with them. It could be that she really needs her parents to discipline a certain way and they haven't gotten to it yet.
But in all honestly, spanking might work, and it has for some kids. However, in trying it,
What have you tried, as far as discipline so far? Do you use time outs? Are you 100% consistent? Or do you threaten a time out and not follow through? Are you one of the parents who counts to 3, but says "1....2....look out!!" and doens't ever get to 3? I'm not saying you ARE, just noting what I see in other parents who have problems with kids who don't listen.
In a way, I can sympathize. I have a son who is almost 11 who breaks the rules consistently. To the point I think he is happier being grounded than not, and I'm trying to figure out why that is. She is getting something out of the tantrums, and with kids it's often a particular kind of attention they are after and don't even know it, and it comes out in tantrums. They are also big in kids who can't identify feelings and share them and know how to communicate them properly. Do you and your wife spend one n one time with her alone? Does the little one get more attention? Has she always had tantrums or did they start after the brother came along? Maybe she would benefit from one on one time with both her mom and dad (her and dad, then her and mom). Without the brother with. Without always having to share.
You can only experiment and see what works, but you have to be 100% consistent and on the same page as mom for 2-3 weeks before you can determine if something is working or not. She doesn't like feeling out of control any more than you like that she is. But it's up to you to help her figure out why, and she's not going to have the ability to dig deeper into herself to figure it out. Instead of buying her stuff, have her earn it. Put a jar on the counter and for every day she doesn't have a tantrum, give her a dollar (or whatever) and tell her when she saves $10 she can go buy something.
As for spanking, I say no. We were spanked, I faired fine, it was rare because I was a good kid. But my sister, at 34, still has a poor relationship with my dad because he spanked. She was what was perceived as a bratty child when in fact she had a lot of emotional upheaval going on when she was young that didn't come out until later, and when my parents didn't know what to do, they spanked, and it not only didn't help, it made things worse, for her and for their relationship. It's not worth it.
One thing that crosses my mind is this: Don't bring Buddhism into it. There may be plenty of good principles in Buddhism, but forcing it on a concrete, in-your-face situation tends to confuse more than defuse ... esp. when it comes to child-rearing. The child is the point ... and the parent's sanity. Given the level of stress and acting out, my thoughts run to some sort of psychological approach ... some counselor or psychologist of some sort.
There are several reasons why counseling and/or more formal psychological therapy "doesn't work"- one reason is because it is not being approached as a "family problem" but only as a "child problem". It's RARELY a child problem alone.
Another reason therapy often is said to "not help at all" is because parents approach the sessions as a means to validate their parenting skills, (again assuming it's only a child problem), when in fact, they really don't want to admit that their current parenting skills aren't working; it's time for a NEW method of parenting.
Also parents need to come into therapy with a huge amount of patience. Cool, calm, collected PATIENCE.
It takes time for any decent therapist to wind their way (gently) through the bullshit, frankly, and get to the heart of the problems.
Nearly all kids clam up - some for a long time- before revealing the root of behavior issues. Most times parents are heavily into denial and it takes a lot of talk, thinking and more talk to push aside that denial and find the RIGHT avenues and questions to explore...
Also you and your spouse should ALWAYS be wearing "your parent hats". This cannot be stressed enough!
Kids don't need more 'BFFs' or part-time parents / part-time playmates. Kids need Parents ALL the time. Happy parents, playful parents, responsible parents -- but absolutely consistently PARENTS.
I would try a family therapist (again) but this time be ready for several months of appointments before expecting any real insights.... although who knows, may happen sooner if you go with open minds and true parenting goals in mind as well! Good Luck!
I might just add another reason counseling sometimes doesn't work -- a poor match between counselor and family. That doesn't mean it's a bad counselor. Over the years at our school we would sometimes recommend counseling. Sometimes things wouldn't go well and we would suggest a different counselor...and things would work out pretty well.
Choosing the 'right' counselor/therapist is important. If after a few sessions things just aren't clicking between parents and therapist, they should consider seeking out another. However, I think you'd agree- if as a parent one finds they are going through therapists like some people go through a box of chocolates.... it's time to realize where the problem really lies- with the parent/s. ;-)
My younger son, who was having difficulty for a while, went to one counselor for several sessions. The guy was not the first choice but a previous counselor had retired.
After three sessions with the new guy, I picked my son up one day and asked him how things had gone. I wasn't trying to intrude, just giving him the opportunity to sound off. We were driving home in the car, chatting amiably, when my son informed me that the counselor had asked him, mid-session, whether my son trusted him. When my son didn't promptly reply in the affirmative, the counselor told him that he should trust him. I slammed on the brakes, turned the car around, drove back to the counselor's office and told him my son would not be coming back. I was a good little Buddhist and did not utter a single one of the enraged profanities coursing though my mind. But I wondered seriously if there were a Better Business Bureau to whom I could report the guy.
Most therapists I have known were all a little bit crazy ... it was part of what made them (when they were) good therapists. But there is crazy and then there is crazy ... and which is which may take some shopping around.
Of course this is just my opinion. But I think the key here is for her to know that you and your wife are the parents and "in charge" full stop. I really wish you well on this journey.
In metta,
Rave
Of course this is just my opinion. But I think the key here is for her to know that you and your wife are the parents and "in charge" full stop. I really wish you well on this journey.
In metta,
Rave
That's exactly the kind of spanking I am in favor of. I can only remember being spanked twice, and I, too, can tell you exactly why.
Just thought this seemed interestingly relevant.
As for what to do with kids, after bringing up three, including the stubbornist young lady ever to walk he planet, I can safely say I have no idea. You just have to make it up as you go along, and whatever goes wrong is always all your fault.
A pedestrian way of looking at development is in 7 year stages. First 7 years the child develops a core sense of the self and place in the world…this is derived from the family experience…the parents set the family experience via consistent structure and expectations. Second 7 years, the task is to be socially normed…the most important reference is the child’s peer group. A kid will live up or down to the expectations of the peer group…so as to fit in. Thus the parent role is to be attentive and guiding as to what peer group the child spends time in. The third 7 years its about finding out who they are, what are their passions and how to do it for themselves. Instead of telling the kid what to do…they don’t listen anyway…the parents change strategy, gives encouragement and asks questions…e.g., what’s the plan…how are you getting there, who you going with, do you have money to do it. Eventually the kid internalizes the questions and begins to think for themselves, takes ownership and responsibility for their path….which develops their sense of self-worth, self-confidence and competence.
Thus OP when a child near the end of a stage, its transition time and a child will revert to a prior competence and will also struggle with developing new ways of being.
Behaviourally, he's a real challenge, and I mean that in the sense that he reduces us to tears on a daily basis. He drives his 3 year old sister nuts. His grandparents spend as little time with him as they can get away with without feeling too guilty.
I won't bore you too much with the details, suffice to say we have massive, unreasonable tantrums that can end in violence against whoever is standing closest. He interrupts us constantly, such that we can never finish a sentence or complete a train of thought. He's mean and spiteful towards those who love him most. He has so much energy that it exhausts us to try and keep him from destructing the house, etc etc. You get the idea.
Anyway, I do understand where you're coming from. What I would suggest is don't discount the capability of child psychologists. Even if they don't have a magic bullet for you, they can be very helpful in seeing through to the heart of a problem, which in turn can help you deal with the situation better.
Your experience so far with health professionals may not be great (I've seen a fair few quacks too) but you may do better next time?
Don't discount the reality of behavioural problems either. My son has a chromosome disorder which is very real and observable under a microscope. This is most likely what leads to most of his problems, however they are labelled.
I'm unable to say what is at the root of your daughter's problems, but I will advise this - don't stop looking for help and try to pat yourself on the back - you're doing the right thing and I for one know just how hard your life is right now. But keep going! If you're willing to keep the options open for possible ways forward, then you are sure to make progress.
Good luck.
I don't know for you.....but for me.....
Nothing better addressed how I should interact with my own daughter than my own meditation practice. Answers much wider than my readings or ego simply unfolded when I was able to respond to each moment as it arose without resorting to any predetermined agenda.
I think it enabled both of us to address arising situations without anyone's threatened identity getting in the way.
It's important to set boundaries and stick to them, there have to be rules and kids have to understand they are not in charge and cannot do things their own way all the time.
It's difficult without knowing specific circumstances but I've had various challenges with my kids while they've been growing up and a change of house rules normally deal with the problems. Rules get relaxed when the kids are good and tightened if they start to push their luck. Obviously it's important to let kids be kids and to understand they are still young and it's natural to push the boundaries but for them to grow up well-behaved and respectful they also need to understand how the world works.
Source: 2 kids of my own aged 10 and 8.
Just throwing this out there, i've no idea if it will resonate.
I hope you get some good advice, and good luck.