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Buddhist and gay?
Blayne
New
Hello everyone,
At the moment I wouldn't consider myself buddhist as I'm still only reading up on it and watching countless videos on YouTube. I'm gay and so my question is, Can I be gay and be buddhist or is it forbidden/frowned upon ?
At the moment I wouldn't consider myself buddhist as I'm still only reading up on it and watching countless videos on YouTube. I'm gay and so my question is, Can I be gay and be buddhist or is it forbidden/frowned upon ?
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if you mean, what does buddhism say about homosexuality, nothing different then heterosexuality, it's all related to sensual craving which leads to suffering, so you are no different then myself in that regard.
The buddha taught tolerance and compassion for all beings. I don't think sexual preference is ever mentioned in the suttas, like many topics, it just had nothing to do with suffering or the cause of suffering, so therefore is pretty irrelevant.
here is a talk from my favorite monk, about homosexuality and specifically gay marriage
Good luck - youtube isn't necessarily the best place to start learning buddhism - loads of distractions!
Sexual behavior has been a big issue in all early religions, and it makes sense because most human beings enjoy sex so much that it can (and does) become a sense-based hindrance to Waking Up/The Kingdom of God/merging with Brahman, etc. Homosexuality in particular did not produce children, a very important commodity to the leaders of peoples seeking greatness and power. Now that there may be too many humans, someone ought to check with Jehovah in case he's willing to dictate an addendum
This really underscores how irrelevant one's partner preference is in the practice of the Dharma.
Welcome
Gassho
If you ask a random monk or follower about Buddhism and homosexuality, you won't likely get the Buddhist answer, you will get the answer of the surrounding culture (again, because Buddhism didn't have a lot to say about sex-- other than having none at all would free up time for meditating), as if you'd asked, what do Buddhist eat (well, kimchi in Korea). So if you ask in Burma, you'll probably hear that it is frowned up, or what ever the sexual rules are that people in Burma follow. Chinese Buddhism is very puritanical and discourages sex (but encourages kids). The Thai are not so puritanical. And so on.
Now for some accumulated factoids.
Homosexuality in the Tibetan tradition was informed by Tibetan culture which is very different from Europe or just about anything we ordinarily see, where they essentially followed the rules to the letter-- no sex that involved orifices, but between the thighs between male monks was fine because who ever wrote the rules hadn't thought about that. This appears to still be true in Bhutan where the monasteries have STD problems and the government has been trying to distribute condoms.
Ref: http://gaytibet.blogspot.com/2009/08/homosexuality-marriage-and-religion-in.html (a fascinating read)
Homosexuality in Japan-- In the Shingon Tradition, one of the 13 Bodhisattvas, Manjusri is the Bodhisattva of male homosexual love, Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manjusri#In_Japan
FWBO aka Triratna-- Hugely controversial, the guy who founded this is gay man who thought that family life was a hindrance to spiritual progress (a common sentiment in Buddhism) and suggested that men in his Sangha should actively be encouraged to have homosexual relationships with each other so they would feel the urge to run off and start a family. I suppose that sounds progressive, where it got explosively controversial was that some of the young men weren't gay to start with and felt pressured into sex by a charismatic authority figure.
** tangential footnote regarding families. The Sangha was against having boyfriends/girlfriends and kids. It was not against monks taking care of sick parents, or other duties of children towards parents & the like, especially once the Sangha was in China.
I truly think it doesn't matter who one is attracted to (as long as it falls in the lines consent, of course). What does matter, however, is if the person in question is being true to themselves and doing what they can to the best of their abilities.
I only say this because there is this concept in buddhism today that the lay peoples job is just to support the monks and make merit, which is not what the buddha taught but is a lot easier for people then to actually practice lol. Anyways sorry for going a bit off topic everyone.
I never heard that.
Also what do you consider 'practice' in the sentence bolded above?
Maybe you could aim for definitely gay but provisionally Buddhist or dharmically agnostic? :wave:
From the Dhammapada...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.08.budd.html
Sahassavagga: The Thousands
Though month after month for a hundred years one should offer sacrifices by the thousands, yet if only for a moment one should worship those of perfected minds that honor is indeed better than a century of sacrifice.
Whatever gifts and oblations one seeking merit might offer in this world for a whole year, all that is not worth one fourth of the merit gained by revering the Upright Ones, which is truly excellent.
and this part of the Mahaparinibanna sutta(last days of the buddha)
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.16.5-6.than.html
Then the Blessed One said to Ven. Ananda, "Ananda, the twin sal-trees are in full bloom, even though it's not the flowering season. They shower, strew, & sprinkle on the Tathagata's body in homage to him. Heavenly coral-tree blossoms are falling from the sky... Heavenly sandalwood powder is falling from the sky... Heavenly music is playing in the sky... Heavenly songs are sung in the sky, in homage to the Tathagata. But it is not to this extent that a Tathagata is worshipped, honored, respected, venerated, or paid homage to. Rather, the monk, nun, male lay follower, or female lay follower who keeps practicing the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, who keeps practicing masterfully, who lives in accordance with the Dhamma: that is the person who worships, honors, respects, venerates, & pays homage to the Tathagata with the highest homage. So you should train yourselves: 'We will keep practicing the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma, we will keep practicing masterfully, we will live in accordance with the Dhamma.'[2] That's how you should train yourselves."
This paragraph clinches it for me. You have the heavens and earth "paying homage" to the buddha, but he says " yeah , na, how you really honor me is by living in accordance with the dhamma, with dhamma practice. Of course "dhamma practice" means different things in different traditions, but for Theravada it means straight up "the practice" of meditation(samadhi), morality(sila), and generosity(dana).
@Jeffrey says;
Interestingly I find some rituals to BE practice. (that's from your quotation)
That quote ^^^ is what I am getting at. There is room for worship. There is room for rituals and mantras and prostrations.
There is a part of the diamond sutra where Buddha says that teaching 2 versus of the diamond sutra (said by commentators to require an alive living teaching) is worth more than donating millions of chiliocosms of precious jewels. (again a commentator says that a chiliocosm is not necessarily of literal huge scope. A chiliocosm could be on the head of a pin)
I think that a compassionate person as Buddhists should be should treat people equally without descrimination of their sexual orientation or anything about them they can not change that they were born with
I don't know for sure if it is generally accepted by Buddhists all over the world but the fact that Buddhists claim to love life and animals too, not encouraging killing and all that, I am led to believe that gays should be treated just as well. It's up to you to interpret but it is important still to accept yourself.