Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.
Were can I Read about Jesus?
banned_crab
Veteran
Whenever I look in the bible it just talks about john. I dont even know who John is, I just want to hear the story of Jesus in a style that is honest and beautiful. None of that plastic Jesus stuff.
0
Comments
All of the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) tell the story of Jesus, as @Jeffrey mentioned.
There are also countless theological books on the topic.
What do you mean by "plastic Jesus?"
I forget what the others are known for, but I took a writing class where we wrote about the gospels.
A fine way to appreciate Jesus.
Before he became popular? I'm not quite sure what you mean by that...
The years between Jesus' visit to the temple as a child and his preaching are quite a mystery, and there are lots of theories as to what he did. Read about the "Unknown Years."
I almost resorted to reading the quran, but the quran just tries to make me fear god so it wasnt very interesting.
Fortunately some of us now have a choice . . . :nyah:
John's is the most mystical of the Gospels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatitudes
I suggest you google something like - the historical jesus - did he really exist? or objective views on the man called jesus.
The bible basically gives 4 accounts of the man's life and mission, but given that these accounts were written anything over 100 years after Jesus' death, they're largely hearsay and fable. Writers had little material at their disposal for research then.
For example, astronomers have worked backwards to calculate and identify the movement of stars, and the galaxy in general, and have worked out that the comet supposedly heralding Christ's birth, actually circled the earth, 6 years before Christs's documented birth. therefore strictly speaking, this should be 2019, not 2013. And the comet went over the Middle east in October, or April.
December the 25th is an imaginary date for jesus' birth.....
All this information is readily available.
Mary was a young child of around 12 or so, when she fell pregnant with him. It's even possible she was the victim of rape by a Roman soldier, so this 'virgin' talk was all invented by the Catholic Council in around 440AD.
The Gospels are not to be read as "biographies" with factual information about a person named Jesus. This becomes especially apparent in the Gospel of John, which reads very differently from the other three. The Gospels is a mixture of biography and symbolism-- really more like a hagiography (in the original non-pejorative sense of the word). If you read the Gospels as a modern day reader without this historical and cultural awareness, very little of the text will make sense-- or at any rate, it will be misunderstood big time. Even many Christians make this same mistake.
now lets play John Lennon's "Imagine" and all hold hands
And a fairly serious TV program about Jesus (smart people, not just believers) suggested that, far from being a rag-tag poor man, Jesus was probably pretty middle-class. He probably spoke three languages in aid of plying his carpenter's trade ... any tradesman needed such skill in order to sell his wares and put spaghetti on the table.
And as for the missing years, the years when Buddhists love to speculate that Jesus made a trip to India or some other Hindu or Buddhist clime, the best I can come up with is singer John Prine's take.
For starters, his (earthly) father easily got his hands on a donkey; the-then equivalent of a good-sized family station wagon, to ride into Bethlehem. Most people walked everywhere, or borrowed a donkey from a neighbour (remember, Jesus 'borrowed' a donkey to ride into jerusalem.....)
And it's not as if Joseph couldn't afford to stay in an inn; There was simply no room for them. But money he did not lack. Heck, he was a carpenter; everything in those days was either wooden or clay.....
Hey, now there's a project for you, reduce down the Dhamma to the bare bones to volume you could read in...oh, say 30 minutes.
That's what the Dhammapada is.
Consider what we know: from the letter of Pliny the Younger, we know that Christianity had spread through the Roman Empire and was seen as troublesome by the end of the first century of the Common Era, a mere half century after the events recounted in the Gospels. From the New Testament book of Acts, we are told that there was a Christian community in Damascus and we can presume that the wanderings of Jesus and of the 72 sent out to share the Good News, other such communities existed even, probably, as far as Alexandria and Rome, even traditionally, to modern Turkey and India. Each group may well have had its own version of the stories of Jesus and, clearly, from what we have learned from the Nag Hammadi documents, their own 'gospels'. By the second century of the Common Era it became necessary to have a common narrative, as pointed out by Irenaeus of Lyions around 185 C.E., although it took until 325 C.E. and the Council of Nicaea (called by the Roman Emperor Constantine) to fix the current four as 'canonical'.
The argument as to whether the Gospels are history has been going on for centuries, as, indeed, has the discussion about their full meaning. It is the same argument as about the historicity of the 'history' books of the Tanakh (Old Testament), although there is now good archaeological evidence that such 'events' as the Exodus and Conquest were conflations or direct inventions with little reality. In reading Biblical texts, just as when we read any polemical text, we have to ask ourselves what agenda are being served and what is the purpose behind its composition.
The fact that the Gospels may not be true accounts of a Jewish Messiah, his actions and words should not surprise or shock us. We live at a time when our own media distort facts, peddle lies and try to persuade us of differing points of view. Consider the varying accounts of the assassination of President Kennedy, the size of the Warren Report and the spread of 'conspiracy theories' about something that happened in my own first term as an undergraduate, i.e. within living memory, and it becomes clear that there can be no final verdict on events taking place in an obscure Roman province nearly 2000 years ago.
What has this to do with Buddhism? Only, I suggest, to put us on our guard against taking literally any so-called 'historical truth' about historical figures, even those as significant ans Jesus the Christ or Gotama the Buddha. The messages attributed to them transcend any life stories that have been woven around them.
If you are seeking a historic truth about Jesus, for whatever purpose, then you have a seemingly endless supply of speculative writings to choose from, and can approach the New and Old Testaments as you see fit even discarding parts or both of them all together.
However, if you are seeking Jesus as the Truth then a certain interpretation is required where there is no dichotomy between both the New and Old Testaments.
I recommend listening to this challenging lecture for a perspective that is contrary to the mindset we are familiar with in the west.
youtube.com/watch?v=Gy-gCEWh5-4
Will the real Buddha... I mean Jesus please stand up!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shemhamphorasch
Because different vowels can be added to change Hebrew meanings, the study of Kabbalah is normally restricted to devout, well adjusted, family men. Women have got better things to do . . .
However never underestimate Madonna or Neo-Kabbalah.
. . . and now back to the other Word . . .
I greatly enjoyed A. L. De Silva defense of Buddhism/attack on evangelical Christianity, "Beyond Belief" (google). You might guess that I'm not a universalist, imho, religions and things that look like them are not all the same, some are worse and some are more harmful to Buddhist goals than others.
That said, there are several books comparing Pure Land Buddhism with Christianity, esp Jodo-Shinshu. TNH has a book attempting to connect the dots, too.
Searching the scriptures and other sources for the historical authenticity of events so as to reveal the truth or not is quite another thing than seeing the parting of the Red Sea and Moses ascent on Mt Sinai occurring right now in this very moment in one’s heart as Truth now and then. There is no denial of this, and of course the Jews still maintain their own interpretations of their own traditions. Some are even awaiting the Messiah to come and restore the temple, so that they may once again observe their religious practices to their own fullness as before.
My understanding of what @betaboy said is that the Christian reads the scripture of the Old Testament illuminated by the mind of Christ and sees Him there.
With regards to the Jefferson Bible I think the man’s approach to the New Testament is clearly a product of the reductionism of the reformation and all the private interpretation that goes with it.
He should have at least cut out Christ’s words on the Cross “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” from Matthew 27:46, but to me it is clear he left it in because he did not truly understand its significance or importance.
Psalm 22:
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.
All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this. Yes, all things are fulfilled in Him. “…It is finished” John 19:30
I had heard the concept about the theory of jesus learning buddhism in his "missing" years, but this bbc show talks about a theory of the 3 wise men who visited jesus actually being buddhist monastics in search for the reincarnation of their dead teacher(I'm not sure that practice was around 500 years after the buddha yet, but still interesting) and therefore they took him to india to be taught.
So apparently after jesus survived the crucifixion(which actually did happen fairly often in those days, it took days for you to die and friends could come take you down) he went back to the east and lived out the rest of his days continuing to preach
its all speculation, but it makes you go "hmmm"..
So sue me.....
"Mathew 2:1 tells us:
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem."
But different research says different things, so.....
http://answers.ask.com/society/religion_and_spirituality/who_are_the_three_wise_men
james was his brother. maybe that is a good place to start. also the dead sea scrolls.
as well u should look into what bible your reading as there are many versions of them. http://www.jimpettis.com/bibles/dc.htm link explains the differences between them.
unfortunatly i was given the KJV which is vastly different from many others. now i have a job and am considering buying a new bible!
in response to heyimacrabs "Is there any that talk about jesus before he became popular? "
tbh i believe he traveled to india and tibet. in mathew it speaks of
3[some] wise men from the east following the star to jesus when he was born. which raises the question in my mind would he want to meet these wise when when he grew up? after all they were his first "followers".there are several videos on the internet that delve into this theory and have evidence from buddhist monks manuscripts to back it up.
They are the secret teaching of Jesus, not accepted by the established churches, that took there Christianity from Saint Paul and not the Jewish Aramaic speaking Jesus (Jeshu). Therefore you may want to read these two Gospels that were never included in the Bible, as the Jewish Gnostic element of Christianity of Jesus, and his Brother James (The just) lost out to the Saint Paul vision of Christianity that would become the Catholic church.
So to read the what I believe is the nearest scriptures to the authentic voice of Christ, then you can look no further than these two Books, that are easily Googled or ordered. As they say "The truth is always out there"
By the way, the Gospels of Thomas, are the Sayings and proverbs of Jesus, and are very mystical and almost Zen like in their Metaphors. So this is what I would read instead of any Bible, with respect.