You are already a Buddha!

betaboy

An enlightened master once said (not the exact words, I am just quoting from memory): You are already enlightened; you are already pure and perfect; there is nothing lacking in you. In short, you're already a Buddha. You don't need to do this or that meditation, follow this or that precept in order to become enlightened. You are already a Buddha. The only problem is the mistaken notion that you aren't. So dismiss that notion instead of following a hundred meaningless disciples, moral codes, and such.

Agree or disagree? Are we already a Buddha, which means our practice is born of the illusion that we aren't?

BhanteLucky

Could well be.
But strangely, realizing that fully, takes exactly as long as following the precepts and doing the meditation and such.
Or longer, if it's just an excuse for laziness.

pommesetoranges

this is just splitting hairs

Zero

betaboy said:

An enlightened master once said (not the exact words, I am just quoting from memory): You are already enlightened; you are already pure and perfect; there is nothing lacking in you. In short, you're already a Buddha. You don't need to do this or that meditation, follow this or that precept in order to become enlightened. You are already a Buddha. The only problem is the mistaken notion that you aren't. So dismiss that notion instead of following a hundred meaningless disciples, moral codes, and such.

Agree or disagree? Are we already a Buddha, which means our practice is born of the illusion that we aren't?

Quotes out of context are challenging in that, are they a reflection of what another has tried to communicate or just another way of saying what is personally on your mind?
The 'problem', 'mistake' and suggested course of action are not grounded in wisdom hence the reference to 'meaningless disciples, moral codes etc'.
Right sounding language I suppose but delve deeper and there is confusion.

Wisdom23

I have often found that I am more Buddhist when I am not trying to be so, this maybe something to do with letting go. I also think this has something to do with my nature, so for me I agree but on the whole I disagree. If you quoted this to a mass murdering, substance abusing people mistreater he/she may consider themselves a Buddhist and I don't this would be strictly true. I am probably giving an over exaggerated example which is highly unlikely but just to make a point lol.

Hope this helps, all the best.

BhikkhuJayasara

Well damn im glad I'm already a buddha, i thought i was gonna have to do this morality and meditation thing my whole life! Now i can just sit back and relax in my ultimate bliss until my parinibbana.

robot

betaboy said:

An enlightened master once said (not the exact words, I am just quoting from memory): You are already enlightened; you are already pure and perfect; there is nothing lacking in you. In short, you're already a Buddha. You don't need to do this or that meditation, follow this or that precept in order to become enlightened. You are already a Buddha. The only problem is the mistaken notion that you aren't. So dismiss that notion instead of following a hundred meaningless disciples, moral codes, and such.

Agree or disagree? Are we already a Buddha, which means our practice is born of the illusion that we aren't?

@betaboy
I'm going to assume that you don't agree with this.
If you did, you would have no need to use a quote from an enlightened master. Your own words would be those of a Buddha.
What sets this master apart from the rest of us?

Jeffrey

A bodhisattva is dreaming that they are a bodhisattva. A Buddha is awake and not dreaming anything.

anataman

Gotta do something for eternity I suppose! So why not suffer an illusion or be deluded for some or even all of it.

I am awake!

No you are Not

He is

No he isn't but she is.

But aint we one and the same

I'm not the sane as you

Yes you are

no you are not

That's the way to do it

matthewmartin

The quoted text is a typical Mahayana sentiment. I can't say that I understand what they are driving at. When I read this theme, it reminds me of kids stories where a kid doesn't have confidence, thinks he isn't good enough, and then he does some feat only to realize he was smart enough, good enough all along.

Another way I look at it is that enlightenment is realizing a truth and that truth would have been true all along. For me that sound vacuous. Truth is always truth and was the truth before and after I knew it. That's the way learning works.

So apparently I'm not enlightened yet. The puzzle does have to do with pondering who we really are (changing, shifting, anatman) and that is a useful koan to ponder.

durlabh

TATHGATA.

Teach us oh Lord !
How should we carry asunder
Our bodies our minds, the thunder
Which dither under the swings
Of whims and whispers, little things
Of poorer the soul or of conceit
Of cruelty of frets all our little deeds
A belief in ego some stifled sense of life
In pursuits of gainly we waste our strife.

Those with forms, those without forms
Those of sunny limbs, those of nether storm
I lead to extinction without any residue
Extinguishing thoughts of you, other or of me
Without foolish folks makers of so called life
Without cruel jokes makers of so called death.

These are the limits of our inherent kind
Those concepts are only infirmity of mind
Break habits of karma which gets always defined
Animalistic discourses of some primitive find
Unshackle your true mind from chains of slavery
Beyond the existence or extinction or other signs.


Durlabh Singh.

BhikkhuJayasara

pommesetoranges said:

this is just splitting hairs

This is how i feel about this topic.

how

@betaboy
Thank you for explaining the source of your practice.

seeker242

betaboy said:

Agree or disagree?

Both!

Chaz

betaboy said:

An enlightened master once said (not the exact words, I am just quoting from memory): You are already enlightened; you are already pure and perfect; there is nothing lacking in you. In short, you're already a Buddha. You don't need to do this or that meditation, follow this or that precept in order to become enlightened. You are already a Buddha. The only problem is the mistaken notion that you aren't. So dismiss that notion instead of following a hundred meaningless disciples, moral codes, and such.

Agree or disagree? Are we already a Buddha, which means our practice is born of the illusion that we aren't?

Disagree.

It sounds like you misunderstand what appears to be a take-off on the Buddha's teaching in the Third Turning of The Wheel of Dharma, mainly, Tatagathagarba or Buddha Nature.

All beings have Buddha Nature, but not all beings are Buddhas. All sentient beings can become a fully realized Buddha that doesn't mean you are one already.

Hamsaka

You are already a Buddha!

No, you're not.

vinlyn

Hamsaka said:

You are already a Buddha!

No, you're not.

Exactly.

zenff

“You are already a Buddha!” That should be in the random and useless announcements thread, I think.

What is the added value of the statement? Does it make you a different person?
It over-simplifies the philosophical idea; it over-complicates the truth.

(Also it can attract hostile reactions;) )

Don’t add words, concepts and preferences...
Practice for the sake of practice.

Jeffrey

In some sense it is true. But you haven't realized non-attainment. Non-attainment is not understood until the skhandas are seen as empty of inherent existence. And that is not an idea. Now it is an idea. But later it might be seen directly with increasingly stable glimpses. If you think emptiness is easy then you have to say suffering is easy for you. How many people want suffering? If you realize emptiness then suffering is essenceless, whereas for us worldlings it is our greatest past time to harbor aversion,

David

betaboy said:

An enlightened master once said (not the exact words, I am just quoting from memory): You are already enlightened; you are already pure and perfect; there is nothing lacking in you. In short, you're already a Buddha. You don't need to do this or that meditation, follow this or that precept in order to become enlightened. You are already a Buddha. The only problem is the mistaken notion that you aren't. So dismiss that notion instead of following a hundred meaningless disciples, moral codes, and such.

Agree or disagree? Are we already a Buddha, which means our practice is born of the illusion that we aren't?

In a non-linear way I suppose it could be true because if we all have the potential for awakening via our buddha-nature then in one life or another we'll likely wake up. Not that it will be us that wakes, mind you.

Somebody that knows without a single doubt that we are already Buddha knows it because they have seen it all play out from the inside.

I guess, I don't know.

I think there's a difference in being, between the potential for Buddha and an actualised Buddha.

I know I am not (t)here yet.

lobster

waking up yet @betaboy?

Same time tomorrow for more half remembered semi dharma?
The awake, the Buddhas from all realms, the sleeping and the Buddha Nature will be here . . . :wave:

betaboy

People may practice, but they should realize that practice is not aimed at attaining something new; rather, it helps us realize the futility of practice. And when that futility is understood, enlightenment dawns upon you. True story.

wangchuey

No time for pretending. We've got work to do!

lobster

betaboy said:

True story.

Indeed.

However every building has many stories . . .

how

Thinking that finding just the right words to describe the transcendence of self, is the transcendence of self or is the manifestation of enlightenment or is nirvana........
is just ego playing with itself.

Zero

betaboy said:

People may practice, but they should realize that practice is not aimed at attaining something new; rather, it helps us realize the futility of practice. And when that futility is understood, enlightenment dawns upon you. True story.

So the enlightened don't practice?

anataman

A man walked into a bar
and said 'ouch'

anataman

Just saw your post on the newbies announcement thread. Slap!

misterCope

betaboy said:

An enlightened master once said (not the exact words, I am just quoting from memory): You are already enlightened; you are already pure and perfect; there is nothing lacking in you. In short, you're already a Buddha. You don't need to do this or that meditation, follow this or that precept in order to become enlightened. You are already a Buddha. The only problem is the mistaken notion that you aren't. So dismiss that notion instead of following a hundred meaningless disciples, moral codes, and such.

Agree or disagree? Are we already a Buddha, which means our practice is born of the illusion that we aren't?

What I get from this is that everything that we need already exists inside of us. We don't need to put on the robes of a buddha to become a buddha; we need to take off the robes of a not-buddha to become a buddha.

I'll use meditation as an example: if you meditate because you like to tell people that you meditate or you feel cool sitting on the cushion, then your meditation is extra stuff that you are using to further conceal who you really are (a buddha (?)). But if you use meditation to better yourself and search for meaning, then you are subtracting the extra stuff that conceals your true self.

Maybe. What do I know?

DairyLama

betaboy said:

In short, you're already a Buddha.

So can I stop meditating and just watch TV?

anataman

You are already a Buddha - This is the Zen approach. I use it, but unfortunately, I can only be a buddha for a short time. The doorbell rings and someone comes to bother me, the kids want something or there are bills to pay. I prefer to say I have buddha nature, thats a buddha concealed within the delusion of self.

DairyLama

anataman said:

I prefer to say I have buddha nature, thats a buddha concealed within the delusion of self.

Yes, Buddha nature makes a lot more sense.