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Why do westerners prefer to read books more than practising meditation?
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Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.
Bodhi William Shakespeare
:wave:
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none.
Bodhi William Shakespeare
:wave:
I am starting to get the rhythm of reading suttas, but slowly. I read or heard once that the earliest of the Pali canon were memorized and chanted, so I'd read them out loud and that really helped! I never put this kind of effort into Shakespeare, but I'll bet it would work.
If I didn't have y'all, and the great scholars and translators, I doubt I'd get it at all. Especially how to meditate. "Consider, monks, a monk who knows when his breath is short, he says 'my breath is short'. Now, monks, consider a monk who knows when his breath is long, he says 'my breath is long'" :eek2:
The parables and stuff, they're a lot easier on my poor little literal brain, but even then . . . yayyy for the 'modern' Sangha!
Told by the cosmic dancer
Times unfold
Rhymes that contain the answer
If it's truth that you're looking to find
It is nowhere outside of your mind
You'll find me there
Waiting for your change of heart
Essra Mohawk
Well, for a practical example, there are places everywhere in the world call libraries. Go to one of them and see for yourself. They are full of books covering a very wide range of interests, like art, history, science, etc etc. Libraries do not in fact reflect an interest in knowledge only necessary to make a living, raise families and look after themselves.
Don't believe everything you hear, seeker, and for that matter don't believe everything you read either. Use your head for God sake.
I love librarys! Back before the internet, I used to go to the library on the weekend and spend all day there, reading about all kinds of stuff. That is where I first encountered Buddhism.
He's not talking about attaining knowledge because anyone can attain that by going to the library and reading books. Knowledge does not put an end to suffering, wisdom does. He's talking about attaining wisdom that puts an end to samsara. This can not be attained by examining books but only by examining your own mind. If you look for the answer in a book, instead of in your own mind, you are looking in the wrong place.
He's not talking about attaining knowledge because anyone can attain that by going to the library and reading books. Knowledge does not put an end to suffering, wisdom does. He's talking about attaining wisdom that puts an end to samsara. This can not be attained by examining books but only by examining your own mind. If you look for the answer in a book, instead of in your own mind, you are looking in the wrong place.
But you meditate like he says and you say you're not enlightened so...
We all have buddha nature but everyone is different and it takes different measures to awaken it. Buddha awoke during meditation but how many meditated before him without awakening?
Sometimes when somebody says something in just the right way we get it even if we've struggled to understand it ourselves for years.
Claiming the only way to wake up is in solitude is just parroting dogma.
Furthermore, no one said anything about "solitude" anyway. At least I didn't. What I said was, if you think you can get enlightenment from reading books, you can't.
But, for what it's worth, Naropa awakened when Tilopa hit him on the head with a sandal.
So, there's two ways. Neither involves study.
Oops I just remembered things are not working out in the right way here in samsara; so sorry if I have to give you a long hard shake but you need to wake up a little as you are grasping and clinging on to the dream world so much that its becoming a reality!
Goodnight!
Mettha
The discipline beneath my meditation is Theravadin, and it chose me rather than the other way around. So breath meditation it's been, with all the Theravadin doohickeys in attendance to extent of my ability and understanding. It boggles my everyday mind that I can spend the daily one hour watching my breath down to the molecular level (metaphor only) and have that hour seem to speed by. Yep! there is OBVIOUSLY much 'more' going on. (just to remain ruthlessly honest, the cumulative time of skillful concentration in that hour is nowhere near one hour, it's a nice goal though).
Months of daily meditation, and a few weeks of this 'deeper' level of concentration. That's all. I'm glad for the progress . . . especially because I also (naturally) prefer to read and think and discuss, compare and contrast, yadda yadda, than plunge into a place that is rather wordless, thinkless, discussless. Not exactly inside my comfort zone, but that's not so true anymore
Work on your reading comprehension!
Work on your reading comprehension!
Disagree with all of that. And next time, you can keep the insults to yourself...
Yes really.
Those who do it in the lay community usually need support and advice. Can you become enlightened without meditation?
Yes.
Really you can. You can do it through the impacts and immersion in teachings and study. You can do it through service to others. You can do it through practicing craft or ritual, you can do it through other religions and practices. On rare occasions it happens by accident, sadly that often leads to cults, abusers, prophets and religions but even so . . . they rarely have the maturity and depth of enlightenment to be still . . .
If you want the fastest, the most direct, the way through the dukkha and bullshit, then you will have to meditate, advanced or not.
Yes really
Try to remember, nevermind claimed that his hobby is correcting people on the Internet.
Don't expect civility.
but the word dogma can also mean fundamental beliefs.
anyway, here are the definitions.
dog·ma (dôg′mə, dŏg′-)
n. pl. dog·mas or dog·ma·ta (-mə-tə)
1. A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.
2. An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true. See Synonyms at doctrine.
3. A principle or belief or a group of them: "The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present" (Abraham Lincoln).
I don't see what the fuss is about, but then my own practice, Zen, openly declares itself to be geared toward "a special transmission outside of scriptures" and one of the tenets is that the practice must go beyond memorizing what the Buddha said and words can become roadblocks. Becoming obsessed with what other people think about the Dharma can get in the way of your own understanding. It's a simple observation, and one that is even obvious.
Ajahn Chah taught a practice of simple mindfulness. He didn't demand that people not read, only pointed out that reading wasn't necessary. He was also not a scholar, so people wanting him to expound on the sutras were disappointed. He was not a great philosopher, able to elucidate fine points of the Dharma. It's not what he was.
On the other hand, he lived in a land where Buddhist temples and even monk-hood was open to everyone, so there was no need to read about Buddhism. When you don't have access to a temple and a teacher, you have to read about it. So sometimes words are all you have to guide you. So be a reading Buddhist then. The important thing is intention. Ajahn Chah certainly would agree with that.
He is a beloved character in certain circles, so implied criticism tends to get people defensive. However, he also had a few words to say about people who expected the teacher to be perfect or otherwise focused on how special he was.
Two ways? I would guess there are more than that. If one can be awakened by being hit on the head just imagine being hit with just the right turn of phrase.
Heck, Mahakasyapa awoke by seeing a flower just the right way.
If the intent or even a focused and compassionate mind is there, I'd imagine one could awaken doing a jigsaw puzzle.
Sitting is but one of many meditative styles.
Follow the advice you quote and look to the heart.
But mostly it refers to the practice, which is almost all meditation and mindfulness and perhaps chanting the Heart Sutra and such. A monk might know less about the Buddha's actual words according to the old Sutras than you or I, yet still be considered to have an advanced understanding of the Dharma.
Typical knee jerk and emotional response to an objective observation.
Knee jerk? Not really.
Emotional? A little.
Objective? Perhaps.
Irrelevant? Completely.
Still, deal with your own baggage. Leave others to their own, especially if you want to use it as an off-hand ad hominem.
My favourite was the British library before they moved it out of the British Museum. Now I rarely go to libraries, the Internet is more convenient.
In many ways we are fortunate to be literate, educated to any standard and capable of taking some of the comments of the uneducated with a pinch of discernment.
My feeling is revered, respected and able teachers are NOT advocating ignorance, they are promoting enlightenment and the way to reach it. Taking things out of context is not helpful as we all know . . .
@SpinyNorman
Zen transmission is the recognition of a practitioners specific level of understanding.
It is part seshine, part focus/concentration of the copying of the silks, part ritual of the masters invite to the student to share his/her mat and all that implies & part explanation of teachings specific to the masters linage transmission.
It is used to qualify Dharma heirs/ to provide a specific direction to a qualified teacher when they are at a place in their practice that can appear directionless and to cement a qualified teachers commitment to continue the linage and those teachings.
At best it is where a master publicly recognizances & backs another to represent his teaching and linage, at worst it is just spiritual empire building.
Perhaps you should then follow your own advice.
:coffee:
lets all just "go to the forest, or to the foot of a tree, or to an empty place, sit down cross legged(or walk :P), hold our backs erect, and arouse mindfulness in front of us."
My favourite book, which I had to go through many readings and libraries to find and it still has not been written - 'just sit on it' by Metta Ray (MAITREYA).
Basically this is a large and heavily padded book. In fact at least 50% padding. Most of the pages are blank. Somewhere in the Middle are the words, just sit on it . . .
http://tinybuddha.com/