Why do westerners prefer to read books more than practising meditation?

David

Sitting and meditating is no guarantee for awakening. It's possible but I for one am grateful to have the guidance from those that have gone before.

Write a book or give a dharma talk. They are the same thing, don't kid yourself.

David

seeker242 said:

Couple of excerpts of things he said from a book about him "No Ajahn Chah - Reflections"

7. Only one book is worth reading: the heart.

10. Whatever we do, we should see ourselves. Reading books doesn't ever give rise to anything. The days pass by, but we don't see ourselves. Knowing about practice is practicing in order to know.

18. Outward scriptual study is not important. Of course, the Dhamma books are correct, but they are not right. They cannot give you right understanding. To see the word "anger" in print is not the same as experiencing anger. Only experiencing yourself can give you the true faith.

19. These days people don't search for the Truth. People study simply in order to find knowledge necessary to make a living, raise families and look after themselves, that's all. To them, being smart is more important than being wise!

20. Once a visitor asked Ajahn Chah if he was an arahant. He said, "I am like a tree in a forest. Birds come to the tree, they sit on its branches and eat its fruits. To the birds, the fruit may be sweet or sour or whatever. The birds say sweet or they say sour, but from the tree's point of view, this is just the chattering of birds."



http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha011.htm

Great. Now can you show me where he says specifically that his western followers are forbidden to read books?

Chaz

ourself said:

Couple of excerpts of things he said from a book about him "No Ajahn Chah - Reflections"

7. Only one book is worth reading: the heart.

10. Whatever we do, we should see ourselves. Reading books doesn't ever give rise to anything. The days pass by, but we don't see ourselves. Knowing about practice is practicing in order to know.

18. Outward scriptual study is not important. Of course, the Dhamma books are correct, but they are not right. They cannot give you right understanding. To see the word "anger" in print is not the same as experiencing anger. Only experiencing yourself can give you the true faith.

19. These days people don't search for the Truth. People study simply in order to find knowledge necessary to make a living, raise families and look after themselves, that's all. To them, being smart is more important than being wise!

20. Once a visitor asked Ajahn Chah if he was an arahant. He said, "I am like a tree in a forest. Birds come to the tree, they sit on its branches and eat its fruits. To the birds, the fruit may be sweet or sour or whatever. The birds say sweet or they say sour, but from the tree's point of view, this is just the chattering of birds."



http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha011.htm

Great. Now can you show me where he says specifically that his western followers are forbidden to read books?


I don't think seeker has made that assertion, so why are you bugging him about it?

Maybe you should direct your question to the OP?

David

I suppose you're right @Chaz... The reason this kind of talk brings out my ire is because it stinks of competition and bigotry. Add in a call for illiteracy and I just have to say something.

Sorry @seeker242 if you were not insinuating that learning through print is a bad thing but listening to dharma talks is perfectly fine.

matthewmartin

Well, according to some of all these books I'm reading, historically monasteries often specialized or had groups of people that specialized in one thing or another-- some monks specialized in meditation & contemplate, some specialized in scholarship, i.e. reading and writing books.

jll

may you be free from crap.....

ourself said:

jll said:

your comments are refreshing bcos you are ignorant of ajahn chah's standing.

however, it would be prudent to learn a little about ajahn chah before shooting off remarks.

just my opinion.

ourself said:

I have not read his stuff so am only going by the representation given by the o/p which seems to be ill conceived. Suggesting practice over theory is not to ban theory.

hermitwin said:

I shd clarify, ajahn chah didnt write any books. his disciples wrote books about his teachings.

A book is just a teaching written out.

Your post is refreshing because you can't see the o/p is full of crap. Nor do you seem to grasp the fact that this isn't a point solely made by Ajahn Chah but echoed by many.

Please show me where he says western followers of his are not allowed to read books.

Chaz

ourself said:

I suppose you're right @Chaz... The reason this kind of talk brings out my ire is because it stinks of competition and bigotry. Add in a call for illiteracy and I just have to say something.

Sorry @seeker242 if you were not insinuating that learning through print is a bad thing but listening to dharma talks is perfectly fine.

I think what we have here is misunderstanding.

I seriously doubt that Ajan B actually forbids his students to read. I don't know of any dhrma teacher that would. Personally, I find the idea ludicrous. To consider otherwise, especially with a total lack of evidence apart from the OP, canbe seen as unreasonable cynicsm.

Now, the OP could have beenworded better, bit it is what it is.

The real issue is practice. Teachers in the the west have trouble getting their students to practice. They'll read till the cows come home, but getting them to develop a decent practice seems really difficuly. Ajahn B' s admonishment is far from unique among teachets in the west.

seeker242

ourself said:

I suppose you're right @Chaz... The reason this kind of talk brings out my ire is because it stinks of competition and bigotry. Add in a call for illiteracy and I just have to say something.

Sorry @seeker242 if you were not insinuating that learning through print is a bad thing but listening to dharma talks is perfectly fine.

I'm insinuating precisely what he said "Outward scriptual study is not important. Of course, the Dhamma books are correct, but they are not right. They cannot give you right understanding....Only experiencing yourself can give you the true faith."

The same would go for dharma talks.

ourself said:

Great. Now can you show me where he says specifically that his western followers are forbidden to read books?

Whether or not he actually banned book reading is missing the whole point of what is being said.

Glow

Speaking of dharma talks, according to both Ajahn Brahm and Jack Kornfield, Ajahn Chah would talk for hours and hours. One of his dharma talks could last a whole night.

Most of us don't have the benefit of such intensive instruction, and I find most people coming into Buddhism in the West simply don't know enough about Buddhism to practice effectively. Many aren't familiar with the Four Noble Truths in their original form, haven't been exposed to many of the Buddha's important similes (if you read Ajahn Chah's teachings, you'll find he uses or retells these similes from the suttas extensively... where did he learn them from?), and many haven't even heard of dependent origination or the Seven Factors or the Eight Worldly Currents. Written and spoken teachings can fill in some crucial deficits in knowledge. It is possible to be wonderfully enlightened without knowing any of these teachings... but it is far more likely (and common) that people are just left grasping in the dark, with no idea what it is they're actually doing.

Also, we are today spoiled by many excellent books in print and freely available dharma talks online. When Ajahn Chah said those things, most books on Buddhism were written by scholars with little experience in actual practice. I mean, we didn't even get decent translations of the Pali Nikayas until quite recently. In addition, I get the feeling Ajahn Chah was referencing a particular type of person who would not understand that intellectual understanding does not translate to experiential understanding. We all know this type of person: a Biblical scholar who has read the scriptures in their original languages and is conversant with all the archaeological peculiarities surrounding the composition of each book... and yet still has anger issues and has trouble relating with his family; the online "sutta thumper" who wields sutta quotes like weapons and violates the principles of skillful speech; or the person who retreats into the world of concepts and intellect, rather than facing his/her own emotional life -- unconscious grief, aggression, fear, longing, etc. (After all, this was the guy who said, if you haven't cried once in your practice, you haven't begun to meditate. He was about surrendering to the full reality of incarnation as a human being -- its pain, its limits, its broken promises. This you can only find in your own life.)

In other words, I'm not sure how applicable or appropriate those particular words of Ajahn Chah are to most Buddhists I know in person or online. I would say that most people could stand to become more knowledgeable about the Buddha's teaching -- not in lieu of meditation, but as a crucial adjunct. Every time I read and reread the suttas or the work of a great teacher like Ajahn Chah or Pema Chodron or Jack Kornfield, I discover new deficits in my understanding.

David

Chaz said:

ourself said:

I suppose you're right @Chaz... The reason this kind of talk brings out my ire is because it stinks of competition and bigotry. Add in a call for illiteracy and I just have to say something.

Sorry @seeker242 if you were not insinuating that learning through print is a bad thing but listening to dharma talks is perfectly fine.

I think what we have here is misunderstanding.

I seriously doubt that Ajan B actually forbids his students to read. I don't know of any dhrma teacher that would. Personally, I find the idea ludicrous. To consider otherwise, especially with a total lack of evidence apart from the OP, canbe seen as unreasonable cynicsm.

Now, the OP could have beenworded better, bit it is what it is.

The real issue is practice. Teachers in the the west have trouble getting their students to practice. They'll read till the cows come home, but getting them to develop a decent practice seems really difficuly. Ajahn B' s admonishment is far from unique among teachets in the west.

That's pretty much what I've said. I am not arguing against the point he and others have made, I'm arguing against the misrepresentation in the o/p.

However, it seems like a gross generalisation and perhaps even a complete fabrication to say all of us in the west would rather read about meditation than meditate.

David

@seeker242

Whether or not he actually banned book reading is missing the whole point of what is being said.



What opening post did you read?

Are Eastern practitioners allowed to read dharma books?

seeker242

ourself said:

What opening post did you read?

Are Eastern practitioners allowed to read dharma books?

Same one, I just read it in context of the question. "Did he literally outright ban book reading", is irrelevant to the question. Completely and totally irrelevant!

David

seeker242 said:

ourself said:

What opening post did you read?

Are Eastern practitioners allowed to read dharma books?

Same one, I just read it in context of the question. "Did he literally outright ban book reading", is irrelevant to the question. Completely and totally irrelevant!

The question is facetious and you know it. Also the o/p states quite clearly that he banned book reading by the western student so you may want to look up the word "irrellevant".

It isn't about an emotional attachment to a teacher, it is about a misrepresentation of a teacher.

Hermitwin is projecting his own bias and prejudice onto Ajahn Chah.

seeker242

It is irrelevant because the question has nothing whatsoever to do with literally banning books. It has to do with the benefit or lack thereof in reading them...any debate of the literal banning of books completely misses the point.

FairyFeller

Actually, reading through this thread has taught me a lot about my practice and where I'm not going right (sometimes I think the phrase going wrong is not always the opposite of getting it right).

I have been reading too much, trying to know everything that Buddhism is rather that understanding more about myself and how my existence does or does not tie in with the grander scheme of things.

how

It certainly sounds like some posters here have major investments in reading and specific teachers.
The danger of quoting teachers is that the situation that the teacher was trying to address in their audience ends up being transported to different audiences where that situation is not applicable.

Both sitting and reading practices will result in suffering for anyone becoming attached to them.
It is up to each practitioner to remain open to the fact that such attachments are possible for any of us.
(Hint) Not being willing to examine your own practice for such a possibility is a good indication that you are already caught.

lobster

lamaramadingdong said:

This doesn't sound good for me- I always have 6-10 books going at the same time at any given time...

You will be fine :coffee:
I have a feeling if we banned meditation or made it very expensive, people would insist on doing it for free.

People are a contrary bunch. Can we ban them? Experienced meditators and senior monks, pah what do they know about dharma . . .
:buck:

Hamsaka

how said:

Both sitting and reading practices will result in suffering for anyone becoming attached to them.
It is up to each practitioner to remain open to the fact that such attachments are possible for any of us.
(Hint) Not being willing to examine your own practice for such a possibility is a good indication that you are already caught.

This is a bit off topic . . . I wish there were different English words for skillful and unskillful desire, and a whole different word for the specifically unskillful mode of attachment. Maybe it's just a matter of discipline and time until I no longer feel a sense of panicked uncertainty that I even understand what makes attachment so unskillful.

I did invest in a nice Pali dictionary . . . maybe this is why all the study and use of the Pali language :skeptic: Those ancient Indians had specific words for these incredibly important semantic nuances.

Chaz

ourself said:

seeker242 said:

ourself said:

What opening post did you read?

Are Eastern practitioners allowed to read dharma books?

Same one, I just read it in context of the question. "Did he literally outright ban book reading", is irrelevant to the question. Completely and totally irrelevant!

The question is facetious and you know it. Also the o/p states quite clearly that he banned book reading by the western student so you may want to look up the word "irrellevant".

Actually seeker is correct. The OP's first post is irrelevant to the question he poses for the the topic. His "assertion" about AB banning reading (a ludicrous assertion) has no real bearing on the question regarding western Buddhists' alledged preference to reading over practice.

If the OP's lead post is an issue with you, perhaps you should adress that person and leave patronizing staements such as ...

... you may want to look up the word "irrellevant"

out of it.

It isn't about an emotional attachment to a teacher, it is about a misrepresentation of a teacher.

Take it up with Hermitwin. The rest of us don't seem to care.

Hermitwin is projecting his own bias and prejudice onto Ajahn Chah.

Let's see, who called AB a "shyster"? Isn't that a projection os bias and prejudice, too? It must be, because it certainly isn't an accurate and reasonable assessment of the man.

BhikkhuJayasara

I may be going out on a limb about this Ajahn Chah and not reading books things. But during intensive retreats at Bhavana we are to refrain from all books, even dhamma books, the only thing we can do is write in a journal.

upekka

ourself said:

Write a book or give a dharma talk.

this is 'the finger pointing'

Sitting and meditating/ walking and meditating/ contemplating on what have read or heard is guarantee for awakening.

this is 'looking where the finger pointed at'

if one looks, one Sees
have no doubt

anataman

Jayantha said:

I may be going out on a limb about this Ajahn Chah and not reading books things. But during intensive retreats at Bhavana we are to refrain from all books, even dhamma books, the only thing we can do is write in a journal.

But that is still entertaining yourself is it not?

Chaz

Jayantha said:

I may be going out on a limb about this Ajahn Chah and not reading books things. But during intensive retreats at Bhavana we are to refrain from all books, even dhamma books, the only thing we can do is write in a journal.

Retreats always have rules - silence, diet, schedule, communication, etc., but I don't think that relates to the topic.

Or am I missing something?

how

@Hamsaka
Cherish that uncomfortable uncertainty. It will allow you to remain far safer in your practice than certainty can.

IMO
Labeling clinging as skillful or unskilful is really just the difference between grabbing a snake by the tail or the head. The only difference is how long it takes to get bit.
The issue is really about working on dissolving and softening any attachment instead of
increasing or hardening it.
Whatever the attachment is to, can be supported or not, independently from ones clinging to it..

anataman

@Jayantha, I am not being facetious here (bow down anataman, BOW) But a retreat is really just a holiday for YOURSELF. So YOU deserve it, yes? Well you've paid the contributory fees etc. but for whose benefit?

Writing a journal is cool and part of YOUR experience, right, but WHO is it really for. Not me, I'm not really interested in your experience, because although I would love to experience it I can't.

But I'd aspire to it if I could...

Ajahn Chah, like Suzuki Roshi and The Dalai Lama, see it all for what it is... delusion!

Agree or disagree?

Back to the thread, I am reading a really good book tab the moment called 'the curious incident of the dog in the nightime'. lo and behold, It is not giving me buddhist insight, but it is making me think about my relationships with my family, friends and neighbours!

I am also meditating, and reading the book is not hindering that experience.

Mettha

lobster

We go on retreats and music is banned or sexual activity or perfume.
Monk hates women, music and eating after 1pm . . . read all about it . . . :crazy:

Hamsaka

how said:

@Hamsaka
Cherish that uncomfortable uncertainty. It will allow you to remain far safer in your practice than certainty can.

IMO
Labeling clinging as skillful or unskilful is really just the difference between grabbing a snake by the tail or the head. The only difference is how long it takes to get bit.
The issue is really about working on dissolving and softening any attachment instead of
increasing or hardening it.
Whatever the attachment is to, can be supported or not, independently from ones clinging to it..

Thank you @How, that's very reassuring Funny how I respect uncertainty in other areas . . . good contemplation material there.

As to your second paragraph, my dilemma is very silly actually, but it is obvious that desire for purification and Awakening is necessary if you consider the alternative (apathy or indifference).

What I am hearing from you and others is that while desire is necessary at times, it is still a snake. If you are going to pick it up, pick it up by the head, but know you are picking up a snake. Wow, that just made sense.

The last sentence is a great example of why I wish there were specific words to use. I am deeply committed to my practice, and spend time apart from meditation reading, listening or contemplating the Dharma (some of which I hope is on target ).

I can be committed to the practice without clinging, craving and attachment to it. This is pretty profound. I'd almost get the impression that I don't NEED to do anything but get the hell out of the way ! Hmmmmmm . . . .

David

Chaz said:

Let's see, who called AB a "shyster"? Isn't that a projection os bias and prejudice, too? It must be, because it certainly isn't an accurate and reasonable assessment of the man.

I didn't call him a shyster, lol. I said Hermitwin made him sound like a shyster.

I agree with the actual sentiment up to a certain point.

And if you don't care, why get so defensive?

DairyLama

What's that Zen saying: "If you see a book on the road, burn it!"

SattvaPaul

If you read a lot of books, you can at least attain the stage of Alan Watts. That's something.

anando

Hi,
why should reading books be bad? If it concerns Buddhism, there is one basic literatur, the Pali-Canon. If there is no Master to teach, one can learn with the Pali-Canon. One can learn theory and the practice the 8fold path. Reading and praticing interact with each other and one can have benefits by this cooporations.
Reading is giving higher education.

anando

DairyLama

anando said:

why should reading books be bad? If it concerns Buddhism, there is one basic literatur, the Pali-Canon. If there is no Master to teach, one can learn with the Pali-Canon. One can learn theory and the practice the 8fold path. Reading and praticing interact with each other and one can have benefits by this cooporations.
Reading is giving higher education.

I agree. And to be honest I wish people would spend more time with the source material like the suttas, and less time reading books about Buddhism.
Books about Buddhism sometimes have interpretations of what the suttas mean, but of course those are just the opinion of the author, and none of them seem to agree anyway. So if one hasn't read the source material, it's just a succession of other peoples opinions, which may or may not be worthwhile.

Chaz

ourself said:

I agree. And to be honest I wish people would spend more time with the source material like the suttas, and less time reading books about Buddhism.
Books about Buddhism sometimes have interpretations of what the suttas mean, but of course those are just the opinion of the author, and none of them seem to agree anyway. So if one hasn't read the source material, it's just a succession of other peoples opinions, which may or may not be worthwhile.

But if someone else's opinion is a of questionable value, then how can your or mine be of any more?

All that reading source materials seems to do is increase knowledge, for most people. Now if you're interested in gaining knowledge, that's not so bad, but I struggle to find Right Knowledge as a path the Buddha endorsed.

For many, study is an end in itself. I think study can be a support for practice, but still, the best support for practice is more practice.

lobster

But if someone else's opinion is a of questionable value, then how can your or mine be of any more?

Indeed.
I would not trust my opinions unless I did not have any . . . and probably not even then. :buck:
I find (mostly) the people writing and interpreting sutta are astute and scholarly often with years of practical practice. They allow us to understand a potential within the meaning, that is not always apparent from a cursory examination.

or as the Mahayana say:
'Opinions are empty and form, opinions' . . . think that is right . . .

:wave:

DairyLama

lobster said:

I find (mostly) the people writing and interpreting sutta are astute and scholarly often with years of practical practice. They allow us to understand a potential within the meaning, that is not always apparent from a cursory examination.

Sure, and that's very useful. The problem is that translators and commentators often don't agree on how suttas should be interpreted, and if one has never read the suttas they are commenting on, then there is no way of telling which interpretation is likely to be correct. It's the difference between informed opinion and sheer guesswork ( or sometimes just liking what one bloke says more! ).

An example: I have an old friend who is also a Buddhist, and years ago I remember we had some lively discussions about Stephen Batchelors first book. My friend was telling me how Batchelor said this sutta really meant that, and another sutta had been completely misinterpreted, and so on and so forth. But in conversation it became apparent that my friend had never looked at the relevant suttas himself, and therefore had no way to tell if Batchelors ideas had any merit.
Do you see what I'm getting at?

DairyLama

Chaz said:

But if someone else's opinion is a of questionable value, then how can your or mine be of any more?

There is a difference between informed opinion and sheer guesswork.

David

SpinyNorman said:

anando said:

why should reading books be bad? If it concerns Buddhism, there is one basic literatur, the Pali-Canon. If there is no Master to teach, one can learn with the Pali-Canon. One can learn theory and the practice the 8fold path. Reading and praticing interact with each other and one can have benefits by this cooporations.
Reading is giving higher education.

I agree. And to be honest I wish people would spend more time with the source material like the suttas, and less time reading books about Buddhism.
Books about Buddhism sometimes have interpretations of what the suttas mean, but of course those are just the opinion of the author, and none of them seem to agree anyway. So if one hasn't read the source material, it's just a succession of other peoples opinions, which may or may not be worthwhile.

I like to do both. That way I can see them from another perspective and perhaps find new meaning.

Then to me, Buddhism is more of a process than anything so the suttas are only part of it. What they are trying to get across and how to apply them to everyday living is just as important.

@Chaz;

That wasn't me you quoted there.

Chaz

ourself said:

@Chaz;

That wasn't me you quoted there.

OOPS!!!

My bad. Sorry.

David

Depending on where you're standing I could be considered a westerner and to me it isn't meditation or learning through books but both.

I may spend more time reading than doing sitting meditation but if walking, I usually spend time doing walking meditation.

So where is the typical westerner located?

Maybe Vancouver...

cvalue

It happens to me a lot, when I feel lazy to practice, I pick up a book and read. It's my all time excuse that I need to learn more but actually what I really need is to practice meditation more!

Jeffrey

There are three ways to practice: hearing teachings, contemplation of teachings, and meditation. For a given person sometimes in this life they will focus mainly on one of these.

Nevermind

These days people don't search for the Truth. People study simply in order to find knowledge necessary to make a living, raise families and look after themselves, that's all.

Who is dumb enough to believe that?

Hamsaka

lobster said:

Indeed.
I would not trust my opinions unless I did not have any . . . and probably not even then. :buck:
I find (mostly) the people writing and interpreting sutta are astute and scholarly often with years of practical practice. They allow us to understand a potential within the meaning, that is not always apparent from a cursory examination.

or as the Mahayana say:
'Opinions are empty and form, opinions' . . . think that is right . . .

:wave:

Word, on trusting my own opinions too :buck:

I read the suttas. Badly. I hope this will improve. The opinion I end up with is "I have no effing idea what that means."

Now, if I listen or read a bit of Thanissaro Bikkhu, a well respected and learned scholar of the Pali canon, and THEN read a sutta, I can hang on to TB's translation/commentary with one hand and fumble around inexpertly with my other hand. Or, I can read the commentary of one of the members of NB here and use that to prop me up while I explore a sutta for myself.

I am not fortunate when it comes to reading anything but plain, modern English or thoughtful and intelligent translations. Shakespeare is gibberish to me I am not joking. That's just an example of how limited my ability to project myself and relate is. Shakespeare is a celebration to me when I get a little help in the translation. So far, I am uneducated enough in the suttas that reading a sutta, or a passage from one, and savoring it, meditating upon it, etc etc, doesn't seem to get me anywhere. Maybe this is a newbie thing?

seeker242

Nevermind said:

These days people don't search for the Truth. People study simply in order to find knowledge necessary to make a living, raise families and look after themselves, that's all.

Who is dumb enough to believe that?

Not very many! Most everyone is too smart. Some even think they are smarter than an Arhat!

anataman

seeker242 said:

Nevermind said:

These days people don't search for the Truth. People study simply in order to find knowledge necessary to make a living, raise families and look after themselves, that's all.

Who is dumb enough to believe that?

Not very many! Most everyone is too smart. Some even think they are smarter than an Arhat!



Is that so?

seeker242

Of course.

anataman

Anyway the OP asked why do westerners prefer to read books more than practicing meditation.

I have read more books to my kids in the last 10 years than I ever read to myself, and thats simply because they need to acquire some knowledge and reading skills to get through life.

I enjoy reading the kids books, but who when reading book to their child has meditated on the experience of delivering knowledge to an open and receptive being - who loves and relies on you to be there for them. Of course certain minds might see this as an opportunity to bend that open and vulnerable mind to meet their selfish ends, but me I rejoice in the joy that reading to my children brings me and them.

Meditation takes many and no forms - reading may be one of them, or not.

Enjoy reading, and smile if you enjoy it because it is a joyful experience to read with a child...

Sorry you are not a child. Beg your pardon.

Ajahn Chah was a poor teacher for the lay buddhist but for those who were contemplating meditation properly, was good No?

jll

to some extent, it is a stereotype, but you cant deny the cultural differences.
The western mind is very much cerebral and over-stimulated esp the MTV generation. People from rural areas are generally more in touch with nature and their body.
I would rather read a book than meditate anytime. That is just how my mind has been conditioned. Reading a book for 2 hrs is a breeze.
Try observing your breath for the same length of time. Therefore the need re-condition our mind based on our background.


vancouver, LA, DC and Las Vegas.

ourself said:

Depending on where you're standing I could be considered a westerner and to me it isn't meditation or learning through books but both.

I may spend more time reading than doing sitting meditation but if walking, I usually spend time doing walking meditation.

So where is the typical westerner located?

Maybe Vancouver...

jll

also Bangkok, Shanghai and Tokyo.

Nevermind

seeker242 said:

Nevermind said:

These days people don't search for the Truth. People study simply in order to find knowledge necessary to make a living, raise families and look after themselves, that's all.

Who is dumb enough to believe that?

Not very many! Most everyone is too smart. Some even think they are smarter than an Arhat!


Don't believe me?

Well, for a practical example, there are places everywhere in the world call libraries. Go to one of them and see for yourself. They are full of books covering a very wide range of interests, like art, history, science, etc etc. Libraries do not in fact reflect an interest in knowledge only necessary to make a living, raise families and look after themselves.

Don't believe everything you hear, seeker, and for that matter don't believe everything you read either. Use your head for God sake.