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Why do westerners prefer to read books more than practising meditation?
hermitwin
Veteran
Ajahn chah used to ban westerners from reading books.
why do you think that is ?
why do you think that is ?
1
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~Ajahn Chah: A Still Forest Pool.
Probably because he wanted them to happy.
My guess is he was a control freak but I have not read his stuff.
Q: Is it advisable to read a lot or study the scriptures as a part of practice?
Answer: The Dhamma of the Buddha is not found in books. If you want to really see for yourself what the Buddha was talking about, you don't need to bother with books. Watch your own mind. Examine to see how feelings come and go, how thoughts come and go. don't be attached to anything. Just be mindful of whatever there is to see. This is the way to the truths of the Buddha. Be natural. Everything you do in your life here is a chance to practise. It is all Dhamma. When you do your chores, try to be mindful. If you are emptying a spittoon or cleaning a toilet, don't feel you are doing it as a favour for anyone else. There is Dhamma in emptying spittoons. Don't feel you are practising only when sitting still, cross-legged. Some of you have complained that there is not enough time to meditate. Is there enough time to breathe? This is your meditation: mindfulness, naturalness in whatever you do.
The quote above from him about Dhamma not being in books, works in certain situations, for a certain crowd but of course is contradictory to his own advice so it can't be intended as universally applicable.
When people read stuff they feel they understand. If they understood they would not keep having opinions.
. . . well that is my opinion . . . I think I read it in a book . . .
:buck:
Sounds like a shyster to me.
What right-minded dog doesn't sniff the fire hydrant, circling, at first from a distance and then closer and closer until, at last, he lifts his leg and takes a leak?
Book reading, going to lectures, talking with others, posting on Buddhist bulletin boards ... who doesn't sniff this fire hydrant? There is a subtext to all of this which is a fear -- a no-kidding fear -- that diving in might ... well, it might turn out to be a crock of shit; it might take away something that is valued; it might mean giving up chocolate or sex; it might be painful; it might ... it might do all kinds of weird things even if the promise is all dressed up with words like "enlightenment" and "compassion" and other nifty-sounding stuff.
Telling someone to stop reading is like the mother who advises the children before she leaves the house, "And while I'm gone, don't stick beans up your nose." The kids, who had never considered the possibility, do precisely that. Telling someone not to read or think or strike a handsome 'Buddhist' pose ... well, you gotta try it before you find out that it doesn't work.
So ... read up a storm; discuss and dissect to your heart's content; absorb and regurgitate profound wisdom ... knock yourself out. And then, perhaps (but only perhaps), there will come a time to be serious, to actually put all those wily thoughts to the test, to practice not just today, but also tomorrow ... and the day after that.
There's no pushing the river. There is just personal courage and patience and doubt that act as allies in an actual-factual, maybe-scare-the-pants-off-you practice.
Your life, your choice.
The point is I think, why would anyone bother asking rather than why bother 'listening to the response' once the question is asked - indeed, the 'answer' to many 'questions' is a polite 'just meditate'... perhaps a hint that there is no answer within the context of the question.
That I can understand. The truth of Buddhas teachings are not found written in a book but the o/p suggests he banned his western followers from reading books.
It simply doesn't make sense as he himself, was a writer of books.
I find it amusing that we hear so often the lament of western misunderstanding.
As if not a person in the east has ever been confused at the dharma.
I think the the thread title jumps to a conclusion that the OP doesn't imply. It's nonsensical.
Who is to say that his western students weren't meditating just because they were reading too much.
If Hermitwin knows that this was the case, why the guessing game?
His quote also that is mentionable here is "there is no book worth reading more then the human heart". In the end what books do for many of us is bring the teachings to those of us who dont have a teacher as a supplement to our practice.
These days i read a book on average every two months. I read slow and all the books are dhamma related. The last book i read was an amazing one called "getting off". Now im reading "forest recollections" about thudong(wandering) monks of thailand of the last century, one of which was Ajahn Chah.
reading usually just makes us think we are challenging it.
I remember a comedian holding a glass of wine on one hand and a book of wine on the other hand. As she took one sip, she looked at the book for a hint then said, it tastes fruity, right. Then she went on and on about how she tasted according to what the book told her.
It may be because the west tends to favor "rationalism" over "superstition", my personal preference for knowledge and wisdom based practice, or the fact that meditation never worked for me.
It's all about preference and experience; whether from laypeople or from teachers.
Most of the bookstores in Bangkok were directed at foreign tourists, particularly English-language visitors, and to some extent Germans. Back in the 1980s, I would see occasional Thais in the bookstores, but even though it was the national capital, the clientele was predominantly Westerners. When living there up until 4 years ago, it was more common to see Thais in the bookstores, and Thai-language floor space was decidedly larger...although the main bookstores were, at best, 50-50.
his pupils could get direct advice from Him instead of reading books and going astray or taking a longer way to see the Truth
Most of the world is the position of 'faffing about', it is a uniquely human tendency. In a sense we have to realise that intellectual 'wisdom' or a little mind calming is all most people want or require. Not all of us are like that or will always be like that . . .
Hope that was not too harsh or crazy talk
:screwy:
I choose not to 'go there' with the bigotry piece. It may be there, but I'm with you, it is a bunch of shit. Of course people from the East get confused about the Dharma. Westerners do not corner the market on being Dharmically dense.
The Dharma came to western culture, and we're misunderstanding it in a typically western way. We're materialistic from kindergarten, and place too much emphasis on intellectual grasping and are suspicious of heart understanding, of silence and trusting our inner experience because it hasn't been empirically verified in some lab.
I can totally see why Ajan Chah told westerners to "stop reading books". I've spent my life reading books and grappling with my intellect and it's filled my brain up with interesting things, but it wasn't until my meditation got more solid that my quality of day to day life began to improve.
No more than what you usually write.
Sure, provided you're actually meditating when you chant.
This is actually not just a Western phenomenon, either. This has happened any time Buddhism has made a jump into a new culture. What was left of the Buddha's teaching when it crossed the Himalayas from India/Nepal into China? And from China into Korea? And from continental Asia into Japan? Jhana/dhyana --> Ch'an --> Zen. Meditation is the most convenient export into a new culture because it is culture-independent. You don't need to translate ethics or an entire body of philosophy to sit down and breathe in and out. Of course, there are translations of the teachings into Chinese and Tibetan, but they have far less traction in their new homes than sitting meditation. Oftentimes, that is the only thing many schools of Buddhism have in common. Meditation is what is most easily marketable about Buddhism, most easily absorbed into a new culture.
Here in the West, meditation is a friendly, secular entry-point into the Buddha's liberative life path, but when I read the suttas, I find people who have immersed themselves in this river at every moment of their lives, not just when they sit down in "the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building." And, for me and most people I know who are serious about understanding this thing called Buddhism, it's a path that involves some intellectual work, some learning, some self-observation and exploration, and some (sometimes painful) behavioral changes, in addition to meditation.
... Actually, if you read those collections of Ajahn Chah's talks, you quickly realize the guy hardly ever talks about meditation. It's in there, but he mostly his talks are about transforming the way you see and relate to the world. His meditation instruction was little more than "go over there and follow your breath." A refreshing change of pace from all the angst, doubt, sound and fury I often see people pile onto their meditation practice.
however, it would be prudent to learn a little about ajahn chah before shooting off remarks.
just my opinion.
You can read all you want about meditation and enlightenment but until you get down to actually doing the work what are your odds of attaining enlightenment?
Metta
Please show me where he says western followers of his are not allowed to read books.
Hows your practice?
7. Only one book is worth reading: the heart.
10. Whatever we do, we should see ourselves. Reading books doesn't ever give rise to anything. The days pass by, but we don't see ourselves. Knowing about practice is practicing in order to know.
18. Outward scriptual study is not important. Of course, the Dhamma books are correct, but they are not right. They cannot give you right understanding. To see the word "anger" in print is not the same as experiencing anger. Only experiencing yourself can give you the true faith.
19. These days people don't search for the Truth. People study simply in order to find knowledge necessary to make a living, raise families and look after themselves, that's all. To them, being smart is more important than being wise!
20. Once a visitor asked Ajahn Chah if he was an arahant. He said, "I am like a tree in a forest. Birds come to the tree, they sit on its branches and eat its fruits. To the birds, the fruit may be sweet or sour or whatever. The birds say sweet or they say sour, but from the tree's point of view, this is just the chattering of birds."
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha011.htm