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Question
Bunks
Australia Veteran
I was pondering this question this morning:
If all human beings were to become enlightened at the same moment in time, then how could women become pregnant as there would be no one left to be born into the human realm. Then it dawned on me that no human being would have the desire to have sex anymore so that kinda makes sense.......
The last one to leave please turn out the lights.
I'm off to meditate. :om:
If all human beings were to become enlightened at the same moment in time, then how could women become pregnant as there would be no one left to be born into the human realm. Then it dawned on me that no human being would have the desire to have sex anymore so that kinda makes sense.......
The last one to leave please turn out the lights.
I'm off to meditate. :om:
0
Comments
Shit I must be enlightened
Math gets weird when infinities are involved and the orthodox six realms cosmology said there is an infinite amount of time and nearly infinite beings. You'd think that if beings were infinite and samsara has been going on infinitely, that surely we'd all be moved to nirvana (for math heads, nirvana is an absorbing state and the six realms is a markov chain, so given enough time, everything moving among the seven states will end up in nirvana, even if the process is slow and inefficient)
I doubt this has happened more then once or twice in the history of samsara.
The idea that the enlightened live on moon beams, only have sex with consenting nagas and generally behave like an ephemeral weirdo does not equate with my experience or Mr Cushions.
It might well entail considerate lovers, humane diets, competitive giving, 'passion' over animals, vegetation and nature being treated with due care and compassion and so on. We might even listen to the words of enlightened vedantists, sufis, pagans, mystics and other assorted non Buddhists . . .
What is that Mr Cushion? The weirdo bit is true? OK point taken.
:wave:
If we were all enlightened we'd likely keep the human race going. If we were all enlightened, there would be no greed or an us and them complex and so Nirvana would actually be right here and right now.
One, which is contrary to how it's generally portrayed in Mahayana traditions, is that nirvana is an 'absorbing state.' In Mahayana, however, nirvana is just one stage on the path to full enlightenment. Once entered, it can be left. According to the Saddharmapundarika Sutra, for example, it's said that buddhas are able to awaken arahants from their temporary cessation (i.e., being intoxicated with the 'bliss of the samadhi of cessation' = nirvana) in order for them to continue towards complete buddhahood, which is characterized by omniscience.
The second assumption is that we're all moving towards nirvana in some sort of blind, teleological fashion when awakening generally requires a certain number of supporting conditions (SN 12.23). However you define 'moving' and 'nirvana,' it's an assumption all beings are heading towards it; but there's no reason to assume this from the suttas or how the six realms are generally framed in Theravada. In the Pali Canon, for example, there are at least two places where the question of whether all beings will attain liberation is addressed. The first is AN 10.95, where Uttiya the wanderer, after asking a number of other metaphysical questions, asks the Buddha if all the world will reach release, or a half of it, or a third. In this instance, the Buddha remains silent, and Ananda gives an analogy to explain the Buddha's silence: The second reference is in the Questions of King Milinda, a later work that's included in the Khuddaka Nikaya of the Burmese edition of Pali Canon, but not in Thai or Sri Lankan versions. Here, King Milinda asks whether everyone attains nibbana, to which the Ven. Nagasena (an arahant who's thought to have lived some time around 150 BCE) responds: In addition, another potential objection to this (although it may be wrong from a theoretical mathematical perspective since I'm not all that familiar with the concepts of markov chains, absorbing points, and infinite variables) is that, if there are infinite beings and infinite amount of time, then there's the potential for there to be an infinite number of both awakened and non-awakened beings.
As for the OP, I think it's an interesting question if utilized as a koan, although I think it'd be more effective in that regard if it was rephrased to 'all beings' instead of 'all human beings.'
That said, there are logical answers to the question as posed, i.e., how people could still be born in the human realm if all human beings were to become enlightened at the same moment in time (assuming, of course, that enlightenment = no more sexy time). One is that, even if every human being became enlightened at the exact same moment in time (which isn't very likely to happen, in my opinion), there's still the possibility that people could have gotten pregnant before becoming 'enlightened' and, because there are numerous 'unenlightened' beings in other realms, bear children in the human realm.
Those are some of my thoughts on the discussion, at any rate.
i prefer the terme awakening, because it shows more content. Also awakened people can stillget pregnant. Awakening is not the end.
anando
why would awakened ones be attached to the concept of a species and it's need to continue when all things are impermanent? it makes little sense to me... having to "keep the species alive" smacks of attachment, aversion, and delusion... something of which we are told awakened ones do not perform actions out of.
even if it's "out of compassion"... 99% of all species that have ever existed are extinct... when it's a species time it's a species time...and like I said in my above post, I'd think it would be a mark of a successful run if a species was able to have all of it's members become awakened...what further need is there to "keep the species going" from there?
You say a global awakening would mean the end but I say it would likely be just another beginning.
What was this realm for before we evolved into humans?
For one to be enlightened, all must have been in the dark.
First lets start from the end to the beginning
Are you going/Did you really go to meditate @Bunks? ?? ???? ?????????????????
Don't tun the lights off because I am not leaving - sorry guys! @Bunks is just creating something else Karmikly riddled with crap! And I'm a Buddhist Dung Beatle tonight, Yum Yum Yum, I haven't tasted crap like this since this I was born as a, as a, Dung beetle - still got a load of crap to get through!
Mahayana isn't about the instantaneous ending of the world as we know it!, and the ending of all sensuality. It's about all of us attaining some form of wisdom that exists simultaneously. Then we can continue being in a selfless way that enables universal happiness and perhaps we could have a party, rather than being sucked into the nihilistic black shit hole that awaits @Bunks unless he gets his 'esra' reversed into the right gear - yes I'm challenging you sir to step up to the mark!
Pistols at dawn - sorry it will have to be at midday if I can be bothered, because I'm going out for a long bicycle ride at 7 am GMT!
Come on you must be able to do better than that.
I think I need more caffeine. Your lobster impersonation is pretty lousy.
The enlightened kabbalists and Sufis are likely to be married and see procreation as a Hieros Gamos activity or Big Bang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieros_gamos
The enlightened pagans are often partial to a bit of cosmic interplay.
A bit of enlightenment and a few monks and nuns might marry or find Yab-yum is really a symbolic enactment of itself . . .
The human race will continue . . . and now back to the cosmic caffeine ritual . . .
This is actually the complete opposite of kamma, the mechanism that "distributes" beings around the realms.
Anyway, I had a stiff double brandy and let it all go last night - not sure what a fatty is I am assuming a spliff @robot- ain't done one of them in a very very very long time!
Sorry if you were all offended but when you take in other peoples angst and neediness, you sometimes need to let it vent somewhere and somehow - action - reaction; I passed @bunks the monkey on my back, and he laughed it off - well done that man and thank you!! but really, WTF was this really about? Not Mahayana buddhism - trolling, and you found a good hit!
Mettha
Now that's a (poor) impression of @lobster!
Perhaps the Agganna Sutta, or what I affectionately refer to as the Sutta of Licking Mushrooms, requires a closer examination.
Try licking a hallucinogenic toad:
I can tell you that it tastes like - well what do you think licking a bloody toad tastes like?
However, I have tasted a black toad. It tastes like a stout ale, with very little carbonation, fairly alcoholic, and has a very smoke flavor. I think if you remove the 4% pasteurized spoiled portion out of Guinness and then add some drops of smoke BBQ flavoring you will have the general idea, but you will have to taste it for yourself to really experience all the complexity of flavor.