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Atheism and the original teachings
novaw0lf
Veteran
In my meditations and studies, I've learned about many different sects of Buddhist teachings, divided and differing in ways not all that different from Catholicism/Christianity. There are sects of Buddhism that speak of a hell, but from my understanding, Siddhartha taught that there is no heaven or hell, or at the very least: to question the existence of both.
I've done some light research on Atheism, and of course, there are many Atheists who've developed Buddhist beliefs. Could one say that they are closer to the original teachings of the Buddha?
I've done some light research on Atheism, and of course, there are many Atheists who've developed Buddhist beliefs. Could one say that they are closer to the original teachings of the Buddha?
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Practice requires patience, courage and doubt. Too often intellectual and emotional pursuits only result in more-of-the-same stuff that inspired a search for a little peace in the first place.
Theism, atheism, tabernacles and choirs ... I can imagine you've been there and done that. Maybe it's time to try something that actually works.
Best wishes.
When I heard recently of one of our esteemed members, stoically lotus bound and attaining nothing in the worst sense of the word, from his daily meditation . . . Sad.
Just as I am sad when people tell of their marvellous experiences with practice.
'Works' means changes, not in the process but in the resulting life of calmer karma and other fringe benefits.
Self aggrandisement, self befuddlement, self expression is all very well for those on the path to somewhere else . . .
However there is a peace and serenity. A space if you will that is free and empty of 'our storey' however we build it.
This place is our 'true face', that we run from to be the Bourne Supremacy or latest internal mounting.
That place is the Buddha, your true being. That place is, as you might know, our real nature.
. . . and now back to the Dudism [sic] . . .
http://dudeism.com/
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.065.than.html
"Now, Kalamas, one who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now:
"'If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.' This is the first assurance he acquires.
"'But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.' This is the second assurance he acquires."
The Buddha DID teach that there are a variety of realms including heaven and hell realms, however these realms are impermanent like all other realms, whether you are a deity, a hungry ghost, or in hell, it doesn't last forever and eventually you will continue on with your samsaric journey.
Traditional Buddhist teaching is not very atheistic as he also taught of beings being born into and out of god or heaven realms, etc. and beings who live in these realms are called gods or devas. Atheists are attracted to Buddhism IMO because the practice side of it is very logical and practical. It's not dependent on someone elses good graces or blessings, etc. It's entirely up to you! The Buddha also said it's ok to not be a "believer", etc. Very few Christians, if any, would say that.
I keep all my favourite Bodhisattvas there. Some like to torture the demons, who like being tortured, with goodness and virtue. Adds to the screaming ambience.
You wait till I get a demon into heaven. The angelic types won't stop being compassionate until she is there leader in doing holy things . . .
By Buddha's lifetime an outside tradition of personal transformitive enlightenment had developed with concepts like karma and reincarnation that did not exist in the Vedas. We have no cause to doubt both Buddha and the Arahats who later developed his cult into a religion after his death believed in the same gods and cosmology. But that was not what Buddhism is about. As Buddhism spread beyond the localized Vedic religion, it had no problem with the other pantheons and cosmologies it encountered because it made no claims to what is or is not true about the gods. In India we had myths of Buddha engaging the Indian gods, but later we have myths about Chinese Money King god and his dealings with Buddha, in spite of the Chinese pantheon vastly predating the arrival of Buddhism to China.
Whew! I have just maxed out my general knowledge of the world Buddha lived in.
I suppose I only wanted to point out that Buddhism was never attached to or depended on one cosmology or pantheon of gods, not even at the start. Buddha is not "the son of (insert name of god here). So, what Hell realms did the ancient Indian culture believe in? Doesn't matter. What sort of afterlife do you believe in now? Doesn't matter.
I remember asking our uniformed branch aka the sangha if they missed god. They all shook their head.
If you are an Allahist or orthodox Abrahamist or follower of Gods relatives, non Marvel Thor or Spaghetti Monsterist or bored again Atheist these questions are impotent . . . eh important . . . to many Buddhists they are mental viagra.
Praise be to Cod
I've just been liberated from hell again, and that Satan guy wasn't so bad; no one had offered to sit down and ask how he was feeling, and take time to listen to why he had become such a demon, or offer him any helpful career changing advice. A nice cup of jasmine tea and some hand-holding and he really was a nice chap underneath it all, just millennia being misunderstood and not understanding what he was had made him grumpy.
Don't worry you guys and gals I'll be back soon, No doubt quite soon. Kshitigarbha will take care of you just be nice to each other. That's all he's trying to say to you. Really. Oh and don't forget to sit. It helps. But don't forget to help support each other's practice. Bless them they're all the same underneath.
I'm not criticizing or disparaging here. Without that initial "kool," who would have gotten off -- or perhaps on -- his/her ass? It was/is a good motivator. It just seems a bit strange that what was once so "kool" can't hold a candle to the kool.
Just noodling.
I think if the Buddha was here today, preaching to a crowd of Christians or Vikings, he'd be talking about the 4NT and the 8FP and people would be asking, questions about God or Thor and heaven and he'd be like, "Fine, it's more important that you get the point about the 4NT and 8FP than for me to set you straight on if God created the universe and will save you after death, or if Thor creates thunder or if it is a scientific matter of meteorology-- so I'll preach in terms you're familiar with"
This willingness to teach in terms of pre-existing concepts, imho, has lead to boat loads of confusion.
I'm not criticizing or disparaging here. Without that initial "kool," who would have gotten off -- or perhaps on -- his/her ass? It was/is a good motivator. It just seems a bit strange that what was once so "kool" can't hold a candle to the kool.
Just noodling.
Namaste,
I became interested in Buddhism in my second last year at high school (Yr 11). Not because it was "cool" but because I like the here and now aspect of the teachings.
In metta,
Raven
Is that correct?
I don't write often, but when I do...I try my best to make it as stirring and eventful, as interesting a contribution as I can. Sometimes, that involves deliberately posting something modestly controversial. I think it's obvious to some of the other veteran members who remember my history on this site, that by the clear and present personality traits and level of intellect demonstrated by debates I've had in the past and posts that I've made in the past that often I already know the answers to my own questions. I just feel ashamed at some of the things that I write on this forum, so silence is often the best method, and the one that I most often take.
I see the essays on the front page, I remember the video that I contributed that also made the front page, and I keep striving for that level of quality but ultimately continue to fail...because I know that there are far wiser and educated people on this forum than I, and that stymies my efforts thus.
Basically, despite how much I truly, from the bottom of my heart, love this forum...I've got a serious case of writer's block. All answers to any question presented hitherto have already been answered; for the most part, anyone who comes to this site would benefit in the most of expedient ways just by merely reading before speaking.
I feel...stagnation. And I see stagnation in the words of others, though they themselves may not be conscious of it.
The question is how do I end dukkha. Perhaps that's why you have writers block, because you haven't asked yourself this question properly.
There that's my little offering to this thread.
Whats that Ksitigarbha? Yes I will try and help him, but you know I'm struggling as much as he is.
Mettha
I just...I'm just not...seeing a point anymore (though I wished there was), because the words we've all written on this forum are (for as long as the server stands) eternal. One could do a quick search and find something insightful on this website that I (and others) have written a couple years ago...in seconds. Any newcomer who registers for this site, need only do a quick search for their question, instead of asking something that's already been asked 100 times by other people that's still cached in the memory of the server.
I'm hungry for a good debate, but a truly contributional one that other people can learn from.
but the point is rather to BE here and experience what the information
is and what it can do. Actually go through it. No need to strive...
trying to get on the front page is holding you back from just
being here...organically...and letting it unfold.
Don't feel like writing?...maybe it's your turn to listen.
....and that doesn't always mean sitting silently.
Just my 2 cents....
hang around...try to let go of expectations...
Love, light and metta to you...
Off the top of my head 80% of the questions have already been answered 100x by other people on this forum (including myself). Or, they're questions of small talk which...does that not go against one of the guidelines of Buddhism?
I just mean to speak frankly, and from the heart, when I say that this forum is FILLED with PRECIOUS jewels of wisdom, written and asked by very wise people. But it's changing into....this [picture presented].
I mean...REALLY take a look at that picture.
...which is exactly what I've -been- doing.
I take from it...and I give to it.
The rest is out of my control....and will not
meet my expectations. I have to deal with that.
Do you?
They still come, but it seems that my true problem is a the ability to just...be. That's something lobster has criticized me about in the past, and rightly so. I'm a person who's constantly on the move, constantly looking for the next adventure, the next story to tell, even if it means taking detours in my behavioral paradigm.
I apologize to one and all; this is an inner issue.
It's a journey. For some, this part of the journey is over (or should be).
I get what your sayin'...and people move on for different
reasons...but something should be said for having 'old buddhists'
here....It's essential to the purpose of the site (asking questions) and
for some Sangha reasons, as well....
"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain
I'm going to move my conversation with you over to your 'be' thread....
to be cont...
I'm not saying eject anyone. I'm just saying some people should stop clinging...and are serious enough about their practice that they should gradyate (as Gabby would say).
The other day I was thinking that you might very well be the person on this forum who would be the most interesting to actually meet.
Then I bow my head before you. Such an honor.
We're more Buddhists acting like people instead of people acting
like Buddhists. That was really profound to me...
I paraphrased...he can correct me if the thought moves him
If I am wrong, then I once again apologize. I am young, yet have beared many scars in my short life; it's merely reflexive to think that I am disliked. Another issue I've been working on.
If you have no access to a sangha and are not a monk, and personal circumstance prohibits attending a retreat; the chance to have your stagnant practice pointed out to you is greatly appreciated. Equally, people pointing out where you are going wrong is also greatly appreciated.
Being reminded to practice and being shown where you are going wrong is greatly appreciated.
The three jewels are here and it is a refuge. Who are you to expel refugees?
Mettha
But I don't think at all that you're a one-dimensional person, and there are other aspects of your persona (for wont of a better word) that I find very intriguing and interesting.
None of us here is one-dimensional...although sometimes our conversations are.
And just for the record, don't take that second sentence as an insult. I don't know almost anyone that doesn't have some wacko ideas in their inventory...and I include myself in that.