I Don't Believe in Atheists Chris Hedges

shanyin

There's probably a small chance but I am wondering if anyone read this book. I think Chris Hedges is an important person, and is very intelligent. The reviews are interesting on this website:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1888742.I_Don_t_Believe_in_Atheists

They seem to be either really good or really bad.

As of right now, I am of the view that in today's world someone should be a seeker of truth wherever one may find it on the path.

Edit:

PS. It is a critique of the "New Atheists", so Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and the late Hitchens.

shanyin

I will probably buy it myself.

Invincible_summer

I read it awhile ago. It was alright - like you said, it's mainly critiquing the big guys in the "New Atheist" movement; I haven't really read Dawkins, Harris, or Hitchens so I wasn't too familiar with some of the arguments Hedges was rebutting. But overall it's an okay read. I personally would not buy it as I felt it didn't have any "Wow" moments of insight.

DairyLama

shanyin said:

PS. It is a critique of the "New Atheists", so Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and the late Hitchens.

The views of these people can be critiqued, but I'd advise familiarising yourself first with what they actually say themselves - it's easy to misrepresent people..

poptart

He probably came up with the title first then had to write a book to go with it.

Personally I don't know why anyone bothers rebutting Dorkins.

genkaku

One thing seems to be fershur: Damning the darkness, whatever it is thought to be, is a popular human endeavor.

Cinorjer

I have not bought his books, but I've listened to his words on various youtube videos. I seem to always be thinking, "Yes, he's right, but..." the same way I do with the Atheist spokespeople he criticizes. The interview in Salon is particularly troubling, because his natural journalistic tendency to say things that attract the audience's attention seems powered by his growing frustration and cynicism. And to anyone who has read one of my rants, me calling someone else cynical has to be the kettle complaining about the pot.

fivebells

I would just watch the video of him eviscerating Sam Harris instead. It likely covers the same points, and likely is more entertaining.

BhikkhuJayasara

very interesting. I've always viewed he theist vs atheist debate as a two sides of the same coin argument. Both theists and atheists BELIEVE in something. And this often leads to closed minds and bickering that gets nowhere.

people make fun of agnostics all the time, how they sit on the fence, don't make a choice etc. I disagree, my choice as an agnostic is to remain open minded regardless of beliefs and current "facts". Atheists BELIEVE there is no god, and theists BELIEVE there is. There is no proof either way currently.

I frankly don't give a rats patootie either way and am interested in living a skillful life here and now. I have always felt this way, which is again one of the many reasons Buddhism called to me when I see in the suttas how the Buddha was the same.

Vastmind

' I Don't Believe in Atheists Chris Hedges'

That's ok...he might not believe in you, either.

Nirvana

What Jayantha said right above!

Furthermore, the "Beliefs" themselves are The Problem, the obstacle, in the way of true understanding, IF held onto too tightly or rigidly by their followers. This seems true to me especially of mythological beliefs and many societal and political beliefs which are forged in the labyrinthine matrix of absurd mythologies.

But for me, also, it seems such a waste to utterly exclude the vision of other religious and non religious cultures. The full tapestry of human art and thought
can only enrich our lives. The gentle atheistic humour of a Woody Allen from his Jewish cultural perspective has certainly enriched mine.

As I grow older, though, I become more and more convinced of the great value of the verifiable and many self-evident beliefs shared by almost all the Wisdom traditions. But these beliefs differ from the beliefs of the masses in that one does not merely subscribe to them either blindly or by strong personal conviction (which is not very objective, is it?); nay the things garnered from the world's great Wisdom traditions are more like moral lessons or diagrams. When these would veer too much towards dogmatism and other subjective pitfalls, all the core magic evaporates quite away.

'Tis a virtue to be simple and not to believe that you CAN know much for certain

zenff

I was looking for the benefit of doubt and found this quote:

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
Bertrand Russell

David

Funny. Last time I checked I could point to an Atheist. Does he believe in apples?

I have not read it but the reviews are horrible and I can guess why.

Sour grapes does not make for reasoned argument.

Cinorjer

You cannot fault Chris Hedges for a strong streak of pessimism. As a journalist, has seen tragedy, famine and war in all its ugliness as a foreign correspondent for most of his adult career. We should listen carefully to what he has to say. He knows firsthand the difference between the lies we are all sold and the reality of suffering in the world.

Chris says progress is an illusion, that rising standards of living in one part of the world rely on gutting natural resources and slave conditions of the people in other parts of the world. While he has no sympathy for organized religions, he sees atheism as another faith-based belief system and thinks that science creates as many problems as it solves in the world. Damn it, he has a point. In some ways, people never change. Progress as people think of it actually is an illusion.

Society tried creating a culture without religion, in the Communist Soviet Union and China for instance, and did that improve the lives of the people? And when allowed, the people rushed back to embrace those religions, so pundits who say education and doctrination in the scientific method can cure our desire to worship and willingness believe nonsense over logic and scientific proof obviously aren't looking at the reality of the world. All it did was substitute worship of the state for worship of the God. Most people are hardwired to identify with and give their unthinking loyalty to authority, it seems.

But that doesn't mean the strong voices for reason and logical thinking and defense of what science brings to our understanding of the universe are wrong. It's easy to point to the big problems in the world and minimize the progress that has been made.

betaboy

Everything takes time. Even in our own lives, we see that dropping a simple habit is not all that easy - it takes great effort and time. Similarly, overcoming centuries upon centuries of religious conditioning isn't easy - it will take time. And scientific thinking certainly helps in this regard.

Pointing to examples from history (and proving one's point) - well, that cuts both ways. One might as well point to the (unsuccessful) fight against slavery over a long period of time - and say look, "Slavery is here to stay. People will always believe in such a hierarchical structure." But that didn't happen. Sooner or later things changed.

David

There are good reasons people are disgusted by religion and there are good reasons why people point them out. If people left their religious bigotry at home, we wouldn't need people like Neil DeGrass Tyson, Chris Hitchens or even Bill Nye to send a message to our youth not to be fooled by superstition.

Jesus made your sins vanish? Hey, good for you. Tell me I must do the same or suffer the wrath of the invisible man and you have crossed the line.

I am not faulting Hedges for his pessimism or his views on war. I am faulting him for mimicking those he rallies against.

The title of the book in question is very childish and I'm sorry but it only fuels more division.

Chaz

ourself said:

There are good pplreasons people are disgusted by religion and there are good reasons why people point them out. If people left their religious bigotry at home, we wouldn't need people like Neil DeGrass Tyson, Chris Hitchens or even Bill Nye to send a message to our youth not to be fooled by superstition.

Jesus made your sins vanish? Hey, good for you. Tell me I must do the same or suffer the wrath of the invisible man and you have crossed the line.

I am not faulting Hedges for his pessimism or his views on war. I am faulting him for mimicking those he rallies against.

The title of the book in question is very childish and I'm sorry but it only fuels more division.

Or does it fuel more thought?

What I've read and heard from Hedges is that he's going after fundamentalism, and recognizes it in both religion and atheism.

I think that's a good thing. I don't think any group should get a pass on blinkered, strident position. It doesnt matter if they're religious or secular.