sumphin's wrong here....

federica

"Fall down seven times, get up eight...."

FD 1 - GU - 1
FD 2 - GU - 2
FD 3 - GU - 3
FD 4 - GU - 4
FD 5 - GU - 5
FD 6 - GU - 6
FD 7 - GU - 7

...where dahell does the 8th time come in, then - ??

genkaku

Reminds me of the old joke about John F. Kennedy running for office: Kennedy walks into a psych ward, shakes the hand of a fellow drooping in a wheelchair. "Hi there," Kennedy says brightly, "do you know who I am?" The fellow looks up, stares listlessly at Kennedy and replies, "No, but if you ask that fellow over in the corner, he may be able to help you."

Zero

federica said:

FD 1 - GU - 1
FD 2 - GU - 2
FD 3 - GU - 3
FD 4 - GU - 4
FD 5 - GU - 5
FD 6 - GU - 6
FD 7 - GU - 7

...where dahell does the 8th time come in, then - ??

I think it's probably predicated on taking an action of consequence first - not necessarily rise from a fallen position but to try to rise from stable ground?

i.e. GU1 - FD1
...
GU7 - FD7
GU8

If at first you don't succeed, try and try again... needs an attempt at a first success I guess?

federica

Zero said:

...
I think it's probably predicated on taking an action of consequence first - not necessarily rise from a fallen position but to try to rise from stable ground?

i.e. GU1 - FD1
...
GU7 - FD7
GU8

If at first you don't succeed, try and try again... needs an attempt at a first success I guess?

It's actually pretty much the response I gave someone else on a different forum when the question was asked of me, after I had given the proverb as advice to another fellow member!

fellow member:

Off topic sorry, but this quote always puzzles me.

"Fall down 7 times, get up eight."

Mathematically it should be get up 7 times.

Fd(1),gu(1),fd(2),gu(2),fd(3),gu(3),
fd(4),gu(4),fd(5),gu(5),fd(6),gu(6),fd(7),gu(7)

Right?

My response:

No, because it is assumed you've begun from a fallen position.
You have to be right down, before you can think of getting up....

You make a good point though.
I might put that to my Zen teacher - !

anataman

You need to start with 'get up' then it works out @federica. Assume you're on the floor to begin with

anataman

Oh I see you hit on it already!

Nevermind

Seven tries is all you get, sorry.

federica

no....
I happen to be on my 135th......

Tosh

This one is really for drunks though isn't it?

federica

Linc

Tosh said:

This one is really for drunks though isn't it?

Then the eighth "get up" is harder because you're in a bathtub with a headache.

Bunks

Reminds me of this one:

3 Men check into a motel room. The room cost $30. Each man paid $10. The manager of the motel realized he overcharged the men for their room. The room should have been $25. He gave the bellboy $5 to give back to the men. The bellboy took the money, but on the way thought to himself, "$5 cannot be divided evenly by 3 people." The bellboy then pocketed $2 and decided to give the men $3 back, each man receiving $1. At this point the room cost each man $9.

$9 x 3 = $27

$27 + $2 (Bellboy pocketted) = $29.

What happened to the last dollar? They originally paid $30 for the room!

Linc

$27 - $2 (Bellboy pocketted) = $25, the cost of the room :coffee:

federica

How would you know....?
You're in the bath, nursing a headache...... aren't you?

Zero

federica said:

It's actually pretty much the response I gave someone else on a different forum when the question was asked of me, after I had given the proverb as advice to another fellow member!

Amusing!
I shall have to rethink the whole clouds and silver lining thing. It doesn't work at all!!

anataman

is this becoming a logician's, rather than a magician's, thread, because if it is:

The next statement is true...

............................................

The last statement is false...


BTW - The 'middle way' gets you out of this conundrum... You just have to meditate on IT

lol all the way to deposit my savings in the bank who I know will defraud me. But if I spread my losses amongst banks, surely I will gain... No - there is nothing to gain!

The capitalist logicians nightmare.

zenff

federica said:

...where dahell does the 8th time come in, then - ??

Maybe the first person who said this wasn’t drunk, but just didn’t know how to calculate with zero.

The sum of a positive and a negative is their difference; or, if their absolute values are equal, zero.

That could imply this one person didn’t grasp the concept of sunyata.

The concept of zero as a number and not merely a symbol or an empty space for separation is attributed to India, where, by the 9th century AD, practical calculations were carried out using zero, which was treated like any other number, even in case of division.[14][15] The Indian scholar Pingala (circa 5th–2nd century BC) used binary numbers in the form of short and long syllables (the latter equal in length to two short syllables), making it similar to Morse code.[16][17] He and his contemporary Indian scholars used the Sanskrit word śūnya to refer to zero or void.

In 498 AD, Indian mathematician and astronomer Aryabhata stated that "sthānāt sthānaṁ daśaguņaṁ syāt"[18] i.e. "from place to place each is ten times the preceding,"[18][19] which is the origin of the modern decimal-based place value notation.[20][21]
The oldest known text to use a decimal place-value system, including a zero, is the Jain text from India entitled the Lokavibhâga, dated 458 AD, where shunya ("void" or "empty") was employed for this purpose.[22] The first known use of special glyphs for the decimal digits that includes the indubitable appearance of a symbol for the digit zero, a small circle, appears on a stone inscription found at the Chaturbhuja Temple at Gwalior in India, dated 876 AD.[23][24] There are many documents on copper plates, with the same small o in them, dated back as far as the sixth century AD, but their authenticity may be doubted.[13]

Rules of Brahmagupta
The rules governing the use of zero appeared for the first time in Brahmagupta's book Brahmasputha Siddhanta (The Opening of the Universe),[25] written in 628 AD. Here Brahmagupta considers not only zero, but negative numbers, and the algebraic rules for the elementary operations of arithmetic with such numbers. In some instances, his rules differ from the modern standard. Here are the rules of Brahmagupta:[25]
• The sum of zero and a negative number is negative.
• The sum of zero and a positive number is positive.
• The sum of zero and zero is zero.
• The sum of a positive and a negative is their difference; or, if their absolute values are equal, zero.
• A positive or negative number when divided by zero is a fraction with the zero as denominator.
• Zero divided by a negative or positive number is either zero or is expressed as a fraction with zero as numerator and the finite quantity as denominator.
• Zero divided by zero is zero.
In saying zero divided by zero is zero, Brahmagupta differs from the modern position. Mathematicians normally do not assign a value to this, whereas computers and calculators sometimes assign NaN, which means "not a number." Moreover, non-zero positive or negative numbers when divided by zero are either assigned no value, or a value of unsigned infinity, positive infinity, or negative infinity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero

zenff

What goes up must come down, is what I’m trying to say.
Whatever we do; it is zero or sunya ultimately. The saying @federica quoted appears to be blind for that.

What goes up must come down
What must rise must fall
And what goes on in your life
Is writing on the wall

If all things must fall
Why build a miracle at all?
If all things must pass
Even a miracle won't last

What goes up must come down
What must stand alone?
And what goes on in your mind
Is turning into stone

If all things must fall
Why build a miracle at all?
If all things must pass
Even a pyramid won't last

How can you be so sure?
How do you know what the end will endure?
How can you be so sure
That the wonders you've made in your life will be seen
By the millions who'll follow to visit the site of your dream?

What goes up must come down
What goes 'round must come 'round
What's been lost must be found

(The Alan Parsons Project)