Looking for a practical Buddhist solution
yagr
Veteran
I have a significant opportunity coming up that I would like some advice how to make the most of. Without getting too deeply into specifics, I was the victim of torture when I was younger. Necessary details include the fact that the torture was electrical and the electricity was conducted through metal that was inserted into my skin. I've done a lot of work around this, the night terrors have stopped, the nightmares are over and it's been over twenty years since someone gave me a static shock and ended up on the floor.
Friday I had an appointment with a neurologist and spent two and a half hours having electricity shot through my body, often through a needle inserted into my skin. I had no idea what would happen when I got there and so, was surprised to discover what the tests entailed. It was not a pleasant experience. I'm scheduled for another session of two and a half hours six weeks from now and would like to be better prepared mentally. It is probably noteworthy that the doctors nationality is the same as the person who had administered the torture years ago - his accent is more than a bit disconcerting as well.
I thought I was done with the fear surrounding this but apparently, based on how much difficulty I had on Friday, I left something on the table when I was working on this. Or did I? How do you approach this next visit? Oh...and I've been offered sedatives but declined. I want to go through this with my faculties intact.
Comments
Wwwhhhhoooo Shit.
Everything you've ever hung onto or pushed away is still somewhere within you if you have not yet been able to resolve it..
Being able to be present and still enough to allow it to simply be what it is without clinging onto it or pushing it away is the only way I have found to bring about such a resolution.
Even when we are unable to manifest equanimity in the face of it, what ever percentage of acceptance of it that you can muster, is the percentage of resolution that you are closer to unfolding.
Trust in your practice.
I admit to a degree of disappointment because I thought I HAD resolved it. Funny how much we, or perhaps 'I', love our illusions. The very word disillusionment has a negative connotation.
Anyway, I'm being gentle with myself surrounding my perceived 'failure' to achieve anything remotely resembling equanimity during this series of tests - but I'd still like to achieve more.
I don't have any great technique to help but if you've wanted to resolve these issues it seems the particulars of these visits can act as a catalyst to work through them once and for all. Does the doctor know about your past? If not him knowing may give him a more gentle hand.
Best wishes.
Was this self-torture?
I find this post quite bizarre? Enlighten us further, as this sounds fictional.
... if you've wanted to resolve these issues it seems the particulars of these visits can act as a catalyst to work through them once and for all.
nods exactly what I was thinking.
Yes, my wife was with me and told him and frankly, I can't see how he could have still done his job and been any more sensitive. The doc was great.
Okay, and I don't propose that I've thought of every possible reason for the question, but beyond voyeurism...what does it matter? I was in the military and held as an enemy of the state by a nation hostile to the country I served. I alluded to this, without details, in the thread, 'life changing stories':
Thank you for the additional information. Which nation did you serve, if you don't mind me asking, and don't mind providing info. I respect an answer like 'kiss off' as entirely respectable btw.
@anataman (I edited my first response somewhat at the same time that you posted.)
The United States military.
I searched 'life-changing stories' to gain further insight, but it did not reveal anything significant.
Oh 'life changing' without the hyphen - got it!
Last night I was reading in a book about traces of karma, and I found it quite interesting. I think that just simply recognizing you have residual feelings about your past will help you in the future.
The book said that whenever we have a situation where we experience either clinging or aversion, we plant seeds of anger, fear, and so on. And as we go through life, situations present over and over again where those seeds an get watered or cut off. When you recognize that, for example, fear and anger arises from your past experience, it is an opportunity for you to recognize it and basically practice to change it to compassion. That doesn't mean you can suddenly just do it, but just beginning to be able to see it and start to think of it in another way, is quite helpful.
What happens otherwise, is as situations come up that remind us of our fear, we react in a bad way, creating more karma related to that initial situation, until we find a way to cut it off and think differently about it.
I have actually found that when I practice metta for the child, or young adult, or whoever I was when I experienced the difficulty, it helps a lot. I've had to go back to some confusing situations in my childhood that have had a significant impact as I've grown up. For me, that is what works the most. Practicing loving kindness for myself, and sitting with the feeling as it comes up. Trying to force it to go away only creates more aversion-related karma. Sitting with it, you can actually start to sense those feelings dissolve and over time, they arise less often and are less harsh.
@yagr how stable is your breath and metta meditation?
For a problem like this Buddhism isn't going to provide much benefit beyond the comfort of the usual homilies unless your concentration is pretty strong. The key is to use the pleasure of the meditation to put aside the distress, then step back from the meditation slightly but use the stability it provides as a platform for studying and playing with the causal factors of the distress. The danger is that you get so focused on bringing the distress to an end that you don't take care of yourself by attending to the object of the meditation. Then the distress becomes self-feeding. However, that's not going to substantially damage you any further than you already have been.
If you do want to go that route, the Hawk and Fortress suttas are good guides.
Interestingly enough isn't what you are experiencing pretty much exactly how they treat soldiers and people with PTSD, with virtual experiences of the event and facing it. Of course what you are experiencing isn't virtual.. but it could be used in the same way.
Call me crazy, but this just may be the experience needed to start putting the past behind you.. it all depends on the mindset you bring to the experience, as with everything else.
also thank you for your willingness to serve friend.
here are a few articles:
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120611/TSJ01/306110003/Virtual-Reality-Helps-Service-Members-Deal-PTSD
http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=top_story&template=/contentmanagement/contentdisplay.cfm&ContentID=147475&title=Using Virtual Reality to Treat PTSD
The practical Buddhist solution is the same for everyone, probably. Sometimes professional help for PTSD is required. You did endure it once, and that's something. Wish you the best.
Dude TAKE THE SEDATIVES FOR &^'s sake!!!
Deep, pure, utter kindness toward yourSELF is the reason.
And THEN utilize all the excellent ideas provided for you here. It is not incompatible or immoral to combine modalities of self-care. If this were your wife or child in your place, would you suggest they decline the sedative? I did read through this thread, and have an idea of what happened to you. Please, for the sake of all that is merciful and good, do whatever is available so you do not needlessly suffer more.
you could ask what sedatives they offer and research them. Not all of them make you fuzzy headed and loopy. There are different kinds, some just help you relax a bit, take the edge off, some of them impact your memory so you don't remember what happened, some of them knock you out completely, some of them induce what is known as twilight sleep which you aren't out, you are still aware, but relaxed.
@yagr Thank you for serving and defending my rights.
I've never been tortured, and as far as I know the worst electrical shock I've ever received was touching one of those "Cable Boxes" from the 90s, the ones with the numbers on top so you can select your channel WITHOUT the remote - an oh, they only went up to channel 99. I saw the electricity arc.
That being said, Please try to understand that my only intention is to help - I'm not in my tower thinking "All @yagr needs is a pat on the back!" If I say anything ignorant...well its because I'm ignorant, not because I feel like being a jerk. I wish I knew what exactly to say, but I don't. I still would like to give some help if I can.
I was reading one of the Dalai Lama's books recently "In My Own Words" - he expressed a very interesting opinion on one's enemies: (Paraphrasing) Enemies give you the chance to put your mindfulness to the test - its good to have friends, but, enemies reveal how far you've come.
I would try to view this as an opportunity it make further progress on putting this behind you. I doubt your initial recovery involved what these tests involve. Given how inhumane torture can be, I'd be incredibly surprised if you didn't feel uncomfortable about these tests.
I think being mindful of the context is important. Focusing on that will not "make everything okay" but I feel it is important to remember that this is a medical procedure, not torture. It may feel similar physically, but mentally the situation is very different.
I would definitely meditate before going as well. If you've already meditated, meditate again.
I hope what I've written helps.
ALL sedatives reduce neurological reactivity. That's the point. Side effects (wooziness, loopiness, fuzziness) in my humble opinion are secondary and possibly worth it to prevent triggering the psychological horror, and putting your mind and body through that again. I wonder if a bit wooziness is an acceptable exchange?
Also, some sedatives have an amnesic effect. Boy howdy, I'd stick my arm out for THAT one. Why put your poor, traumatized self through anything even close to that agony again? For what purpose? Manly toughness purposes
?
It sounds a bit like your medical procedure is like getting a root canal, and declining sedation is like declining novocaine.
Is this medical procedure one of those evoked response tests for muscles or nerves? I've heard they are pretty awful even without a history of being tortured as the are that painful all on their own. A co-worker recently had one done on her arm.
When I had my knee surgery, I stayed awake. It took about an hour, I was nice and relaxed, little sleepy but I didn't doze off until near the end. Some nice older man held my hand the whole time. I woke up in recovery 15 minutes later. I didn't feel anything, I didn't remember anything that happened. I stayed in recovery until they released me and I walked out. No problems, no fuzzy head, no upset stomach. No breathing tubes/ventilation, catheters or anything like that needed. It was awesome. Everyone reacts differently to anesthesias/sedatives, just sharing my experience. I was far more nervous about that aspect than the surgery or recovery. You can always ask to talk to the anesthetist and they will be happy to answer your questions and concerns. Even if you get a little foggy, the brief time that lasts compared to having to deal with the suffering might be worth it.
Namaste @yagr
While I can't even BEGIN to imagine the suffering, I went through a procedure recently where two needles were injected into my brain. I was awake and it hurt like all hell. I wasn't in the situation of being able to have any anaesthetic or sedative because they needed me to be conscious in case they touched a nerve
(thankfully they didn't, but I was shitscared the whole time).
I completely understand why you want to be in control of your faculties from what you've said, but perhaps, as was suggested before, you could find out what sedatives they offer ahead of time and do some quick research beforehand? I know I don't need to try to explain the pain to you.
I am so sorry you have to go through this and I truly wish you well with it.
In metta,
Raven
@dhammachick, you're brave. I might have refused the procedure.
@vinlyn - to be honest, I wish I had. It was supposed to give me relief from the headaches for 6 months. I got blurred vision for a day and 4 days' relief. Not to mention the out of pocket cost AFTER private healthcare. But I was willing to wear the cost if only for the relief. But I know better next time
Terrible
With as much relaxation as possible. Yes, easy to say . . .
Your post reminded me of the unearthed, ancient electrical system of my childhood. It got to the point were an electric shock would knock me back and I would just think, 'Oh I have just been electrocuted, ah well'. That is not normal. It culminated in a shock in the bath, which might have killed me. It felt like someone was physically shaking me and resulted in an 'electrical taste'. This is not to compare with your horrific experiences. It just brought it up. Maybe my pulse has increased a bit but not that I am aware of . . . my breath is trying to constrict a little, so relaxing it . . .
I will not imagine your experiences. I can not.
It is the relax feedback strategies that may be helpful to you and I would employ. Yes practice. Maybe you have others . . . mine would include:
. . . you may have your own . . .
In particular, pay attention to the gritting of your teeth, clenching of fists, whatever you are aware of . . . which is what extreme trauma of this kind may bring up.
Personally I would focus on the relaxation not the trauma/visit.
:wave:
I don't have anything to compare it to, but I'd say my breath meditation is pretty stable. My biggest problem in getting to a point from which I could utilize this was that I had no idea what I was walking into and from the moment I knew to the moment I got zapped the first time was seconds. It simply wasn't enough time for me. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I'm confident I can do so this next time, but I feel hopeful that I can. It is my first go to.
Thank you for the links; I will be following them.
I really did think, and I'm disappointed to discover, that there is residual left. As I was dealing with this in the early days, I discovered that memories are stored in the hemisphere of the brain that houses the time clock. When something traumatic happens, this part of the brain shuts down and the memory houses itself in the other hemisphere of the brain which has no concept of time - everything is now. As a result, a smell, sound, etc., can give the sense that it is happening now.
What I did then, was try to relive the experiences in meditation and in real time. For instance, if I meditated for an hour, then I would relive an hour only. By reliving/remembering the experience from the safety of my pillow, I hoped to (and thought I had) downloaded the memory to the left hemisphere of the brain and its rightful place. The nightmares stopped as did the random flashbacks and so, I thought I had been successful. It wasn't until this experience that I realized that I had missed something.
Oh well...chop wood, carry water...
You made me laugh with that - thanks.
And that is an excellent reason.
Well that's different now isn't it? j/k
I did read through this thread, and have an idea of what happened to you. Please, for the sake of all that is merciful and good, do whatever is available so you do not needlessly suffer more.
I really, really appreciate where you are coming from on this - I do. And I might just take the sedative after all but... it seems like such a band-aid solution. I really am not looking to add suffering...it's just, and I'm not sure this is going to come out correctly but I'm looking to end suffering around this, not hide from it - and taking the sedative feels like hiding.
Have no doubts; it did. There was more than just this in your response - but sometimes just having someone in your corner feeling compassion for you works wonders. Even though I had my wife with me, there were moments where I felt alone. When I go back this time, I'm taking all of you who weighed in on this thread with me.
nods The doctor discovered that I have neuropathy in my feet and he believes I also have spinal stenosis - which is what I'm going back to confirm. I tried really hard to separate the actual discomfort/pain of the procedure from the residual mental stuff but had a hard time determining where the line was because you're right - it is pretty awful anyway.
I have very little of any construct to add, save for:
Please advise someone connected with your treatment, of your past experience.
I am in no way comparing this situation with yours - my goodness, who could presume to do so!? - but I have a profound phobia of surgical needles. Really, it's debilitating and used to freeze me with fear. I always advise those who may be in a position to administer injections, that I suffer from trypanophobia and immediately, they are sympathetic, understanding and do everything they can to ease my alarm.
I have never encountered anyone, who has either made light of my situation, or dismissed it as foolish.
Given your circumstances, it is unthinkable to me that you would encounter anyone who would not have a profound sympathy for you.
With much Metta.
Be well.
I got scared reading your story.
The sedative they want to offer me is diazepam. Here's the kick though: I'm a recovered drug addict. As a matter of fact, on April 5th, just a few days from now, I'll be celebrating my 49th birthday AND I'll have 8000 days clean - which is pretty neat if you're a math geek like me.
I'm not worried about relapsing into my addiction but I know what my tolerance for drugs are - and it's ridiculously high. My real concern with taking the sedative is that it won't work sufficiently to relax me, and if I experience the same level of anxiety with the sedative as without...well, I'll beat myself up. It's kind of sad that I'll treat myself that way but I know me well enough to know that.
Thanks Federica. My wife did explain the situation to the doctor for me after the first jolt which caused me to cry out and levitate toward the ceiling. He was actually having his nurse do the procedure but dismissed her and did it himself after that. He was incredibly understanding and caring - I really don't think I could have done better by having anyone else. If only he could lose the accent though...
This I hadn't thought of - I appreciate it.
they may have other options if you explain your addiction-related concerns to them. I understand what you are saying about not wanting to hide, but it's only hiding if you truly use it fro that. There is, to me, a difference between hiding from something and taking care of oneself in a difficult situation. We have to be kind to ourselves, too, and forcing ourselves to suffer doesn't make much sense to me
There is something to be said about being able to sit with certain levels of discomfort, but only you really know what that means to you. I've found that for me, sometimes I want to prove something to myself and in the end it results in more pain. When I've had surgeries (the knee and csections x2) I've tried to prove I didn't need pain meds, but what happened was that I ended up making things worse because the pain made me tense and stressed, I couldn't relax and heal. stress hormones change how your body reacts to things, and perhaps the physiological reaction to the electricity would be better if you were not so mentally tense and stressed.
I too have to be proactive during the procedure though - and what @lobster says, is quite accurate. it's not enough that others round me know; I must involve myself in making the experience as 'emotionally' and physically painless as I can, too.
This involves me going through a little ritual, but one that contributes much to my ease of discomfort and apprehension.
I advise the people who must administer the injection, what I need to do, immediately preceding the 'jab' - and without exception, everyone has 'played along' and done as I have needed them to do.
It involves a small exercise in relaxation and 'detachment'.
I am not going to elaborate too much, because each person must find their own way to cope with their own particular situation.
But yes - watching your own physical reaction, tension and apprehension, is instrumental to the severity of the experience, or otherwise, as the case may be.
You aren't ruining 8000 days of sobriety by accepting these medications. I grew up in AA (alcoholics anonymous) and heard many folks struggling with accepting the use of narcotics for legitimate medical purposes.
I work on an oncology floor where we use lots of narcotics, and those who have a history of addiction, well, they do need more and that's OK. Their biochemistry has been altered by the addiction. You'd be surprised how many people without addiction histories are hard to knock down, though. The differences among people are huge. Little tiny ladies who have implanted pain medication pumps giving them enough narcotic to kill and elephant, and last week, ambulating the floor, completely sober in appearance, working on their home business in the hospital room, and crocheting a huge blanket for no one in particular; a hulking 22 year old who barfed and swoooned no matter how slow I gave him a quarter of a milligram of Dilaudid lol.
You can inform the doctor it takes a lot to knock you out, you may need double the dose. Instead of one pill, you may need two. That's it, a script for TWO Valiums to be taken right before the test, and that will be the end of that.
Even if you still have some suffering, @Yagr, you'll have LESS. Your body is vulnerable, and your traumatic experience only makes it more important to approach this next test with all the kindness and compassion you can have for your human self
In what other ways are you perhaps a little bit severe with yourself? Sometimes we need to be (I do, for one) but each time, do it mindfully AND with compassion.
@hamsaka - Hello again, fellow Washingtonian.
I do understand that I'm not blowing the 8000 days by taking something - was really just the necessary dose I was thinking about. But you are right that if I decide to go for the valium, I'll let him know my history. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, some doctors upon hearing about a patients past history of drug abuse, won't prescribe them anything even remotely addictive... perhaps the universe will take the choice away from me before it's all over.
Honestly, and I know I haven't made this clear...mostly because I don't know how, but I really am trying to be kind to myself here. Kindness though, at least for me, isn't always clear cut. For instance, if I see a skid row fellow shaking in an alley, is it kindness to buy him a cheap bottle of wine or would it be kinder to allow him to suffer (perhaps temporarily) and reach his 'bottom' thereby helping him attain real freedom?
That's pretty much my thinking here. I wrote a book a few years ago in which I used the following example: Let's say I'm helping train you for a big foot race coming up and we're doing sprints. I time you over and over in the 100 meter dash and you've not only plateaued, but because you're getting tired, your times have fallen off a fraction. I suggest one more try and as I blow the whistle to begin, I unleash Rambo, the very hungry German Shepard who is immediately hot on your heels. There's a good chance you'll break your record.
Now winning a race doesn't hold that much appeal for me personally, but fully overcoming this and/or decreasing the amount of control my mind has over me does. Could this be the impetus I need to run faster? If it is, what is that worth to me? I think it would be kinder to myself (if I knew that I could grow as a human being) to risk the emotional upheaval in an attempt that had a 98% chance of success. Problem is, I have no idea what my chances are of success here... and it's probably not 98%.
All in all, I know almost nothing. I don't know the chances of improving myself by dedicating myself to a course of action that does not include a sedative... nor do I know the potential cost of missing an opportunity to grow...and frankly, I don't even know what the chances would have to be for me to want to go for it. Good news...I just discovered that I know nothing.
I live in WA too!
All very good points made, @Yagr
The only other thing I'd suggest, as a person who has also had their life damaged by the after effects of trauma is that if you want to pursue this experience as a way THROUGH your suffering, then you ought to have some genuine, targeted support for yourself somewhere in the process.
Someone, I think Fivebells, said this to me when I had some discomfiting reactions after doing vipassana; maybe it's not a great idea to just jump in and say 'whatever is here, have at me, let's rumble!' It might be a lot stronger than your current coping skills, or maybe not. I do understand your motivation, and I applaud it, I do agree that going THROUGH is the best way out. It's just practical and compassionate to have a guide before you take charge and enter the deep jungle. My 'guide' is a therapist who has an armory of therapeutic interventions to bring forth and contain the intense energy/emotion. I've been seeing her for a little over a year, and we've done this technique called "Lifespan Integration" (easily googled) which I, ever the skeptic, will unreservedly recommend
There are plenty of other techniques, and maybe you don't need a 'technique' or therapy at all. I imagine the trauma you endured is way up there in the top five of all time traumas, yet while each of us are humans experiencing trauma, individual humans are capable of coping in extraordinary ways without the benefit of therapy or whatever, all on their own. I suspect you are one of those kind with a lot of internal resources, else you wouldn't so boldly be willing to go. Still, it wouldn't hurt you to be reminded that you are worth taking special care for.