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Dogma
ZendoLord84
Veteran
in Philosophy
the more I practise (Zen)buddhism the less I am being a buddhist (trying to define stuff through sutta's and conversation and reading).
I just live my life.
And yet...if I would never practise I would never get in that state of just being and living my life.
Kinda stuck in this dogma 
imput?
0
Comments
Religious beliefs are not necessarily dogmatic.
What if ideas were not dogmatic but only some people's interpretation of them?
I don't practise Zen (my teacher is Tibetan Gelukpa), but I also feel less prone to defining stuff, giving explanations, justifying myself, labelling myself... Am I streamlining to Zen?
@Nevermind
This question wasn't about religion.
The only dogma is what you impose on yourself, its attaching particular significance to your religious view of buddhism.
The buddha never told you that 'YOU' had to "DO' "this or that", he said this is this and that is that, and if this is not perceived as that, then that is not perceived as this, and everything just falls away, to reveal: Y.o.U. (that's big you and LITTLE YOU, all in one).
He said:
1.
2.
3.
4.
Then he said, because we have reached 4, we need to start again, but lets make it a bit more interesting:
Then he said:
Don't believe me, believe yourself.
He was really in touch with himself you know.
Oh, and this is my minty twist
, seek a fresh perspective, if you find that you are mired in dogma, liberation is what you were seeking after all. But I didn't need to tell you that, you did. So go live your life full of dharma!
Mettha
Good!
Practice for me is at the moment 'dogmatic'. A few days ago I was busy and somehow forgot to formally meditate. A very rare occurrence. I would suggest that regular practice is eventually all we do. For most, at best, we need to do as much as possible to usefully engage with the path of liberation.
I didn't understand what the question is.
@iamthezenmaster
I think everyday might present a different answer but..
This was Dogens koan. It naturally stemed from the mistaken perspective that there is some significant you that could be stuck or unstuck.
Our ego/identity resembles a Carny's shell game where a pea is hidden under one of a number of moving shells and the shell hiding the pea only needs to be pointed out and turned over to win.
No amount of thinking will allow you to choose the right shell hiding the pea because the very assumption that there is a pea under one of them, which is wrong, prevents anyone from ever winning. It's really just a mug's game where we are the mark.
A zen practice is just a path away from playing that game.
Oh, right...
I'm not sure I see what the problem is? It is expected you will move away from labels and needs for support of certain types along your path. Your practice having got you to that spot is how it works. It's not really a problem, in my mind. I think I just do not understand Zen, LOL.
If you want to go from couch potato to race running, you train. Your first few days running are horrid and painful and you aren't sure what you are doing, or exactly why you are doing it. But you keep going, and eventually, what was once a torturous mile, is a breeze. Then you train more, and you run more, and when 5 miles was really hard one day now that is also pretty easy. You can look back to where you came from with a recognition that you had to train hard to get to where you are and the training did what it was supposed to.
The nice thing with Buddhism is, when you truly "got it" you don't really go backwards. You can't unlearn awareness (I don't think, and so I have read) so you can change from certain daily practices, to broader, life practices. It's a lovely part of training the mind versus training the body.
I would not consider that "being less Buddhist". I would consider that "progress" in Zen! But of course, that depends on how you hold your mind in daily life.
Now, if you started stealing stuff from your neighbors back yard or started being a jerk to the clerk at the store, that would definitely fall under "being less Buddhist".
Always liked this one:
Just my two cents:
If you want to be a Buddhist, do it.
If you don't want to, do it.
Isn't that the way things work already?
Relax.
I think it is natural for old habits to cling like bubble gum on the sole of your shoe. OK, grumble a little if you like. But relax. Things walk away all by themselves. Pushing accentuates the problem rather than unveiling the answer.
Be patient. In an earlier time, Ummon came pretty close when he said, "When you can't say it, it's there. When you don't say it, it's missing." Of course "pretty close" is never close enough, but you already know that.
Relax.
@how
I've warped into a Zen koan how awesome and not-wise of me hahaha
Addition:
Isn't it a buddhist 'task' to liberate all sentient beings.
through buddhism that is.
How can this be done if I get liberated myself and 'stop' living like a buddhist talking about it, discussing it on, reflecting upon it, showing it to others by action and non-action
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to abandon Buddha.
But if we all truely followed his teaching and got to the core of being and buddha-nature there wouldn't be any buddhism left ??
And ofcourse: there would be no need for it anymore would be a logical answer.
But this lasts for only a generation or two before or ego-driven nature rises up again and takes over.
But when the dharma is lost to ego, another buddha will arise!
Thats dharma for you. can't get rid of it.
It's egotistical to think you are responsible for liberating all sentient beings with your dogma, and humbling as well.
Good luck and thanks for being there
While these verses are Taoist, I don't think they are any less applicable to Buddhism or any other practice. To me, this decries getting caught up in externals, superficialities, and rigid dogma:
Dualistic thinking is a sickness.
Religion is a distortion.
Materialism is cruel.
Blind spirituality is unreal.
Chanting is no more holy than listening to the
murmur of a stream; counting prayer beads no more
sacred than simply breathing; religious robes no
more spiritual than work clothes.
If you wish to attain oneness with the Tao, don’t get
caught up in spiritual superficialities.
Instead, live a quiet and simple life, free of ideas and
concepts.
Find contentment in the practice of undiscriminating
virtue, the only true power.
Giving to others selflessly and anonymously, radiating
light throughout the world and illuminating your
own darkness, your virtue becomes a sanctuary for
yourself and all beings.
This is what is meant by embodying the Tao. Hua Hu Ching Chapter 47
If no one practiced or spread Buddhism then it would cease to exist.
Why would that be?
People will always have a desire for meaning.
People will always have a desire for meaning.
Buddhism is self-liberating
If your practice is Zen:
The Teachings: Ultimately a distraction
Teachings describing what isn't.
If the medicine is not correct the patient can get sicker
Miss diagnosis and over using pointers (techniques, mantras, yantras, tantras) make for stuck pointers.
When pointers are overused past their expiration date
Dogma prevails into fundamentalism
The rigidity of should's fixed ideas and positions
An iron ox can not move
Fixed positions imagining they should be fixed
A promise of enlightenment
The reward for one-pointed bliss
A promise of enlightenment.
Blind faith with hope
A bitter combination.
The promise of enlightenment becomes a guarantee of eternal bliss
The iron ox remains stuck without any movement
Appreciate the pointers
Throw away the should's of always place and position
Without rules
Without right or wrong
Without discrimination
When the 'I' dissolves the body is an empty corpse.
Only illusionary consciousness remains although unnoticed
Pointers used after their expiration date become stuck pointers
yielding dogma, rigidity and fundamentalist positions
The reward for one-pointed blindness
A promise of enlightenment.
Blind faith with hope
A bitter combination
The promise of enlightenment becomes a guarantee of eternal bliss
Throw the thorn away before it goes bad
Zen Saying: "Give up the stink of Buddhism."
Good way to get rid of dogmatic beliefs is to remind yourself that what's been passed on to you isn't a set of infallible holy scriptures or teachings, nor are human beings infallible. The teachings are meant to be pointers or guides to the reality that you can directly experience, and not something to believe on a faith basis (confidence is something different).
You should be able to put down the books, and see directly and/or infer through evidence how things really are. If you hold views that have no basis in your own experience except that they've been passed down through tradition... those views should be held as working hypotheses (if at all), not as truths that you will defend and expound as if you really know.
We should ask ourselves "What do I really know?" often, and differentiate that from "What have I been taught? What does Buddhism teach?". One of these should have much more weight than the other, no matter how highly we regard the Buddha or various Buddhist masters. And even then, we should leave some room for doubt, for error!
Indeed.
You have to be where you are.
No.
So many traditions stress that being a good Buddhist means you don't identify as a Buddhist.
What is the issue?