Not to expect......
betaboy
Veteran
I don't wish to go into details, but for the last few months I have been involved in a certain task.... The word 'monumental' wouldn't begin to describe my efforts. I am not bragging but I was putting in unbelievable effort....yet what I have now is almost zero progress. This has nothing to do with meditation...it is a worldly activity. I don't want to go into details, but you can imagine how frustrating it could be.
So I am wondering if anyone has experienced something similar ... And how buddhist teachings helped. Since I believe in DO, I am assuming that most things are not in our hands - the result is connected to effort, effort is connected to the agent, agent's performance is connected to his physical wellbeing, plus all this connected to other factors like luck, circumstances. From this, I understand that one should simply stop expecting anything?
So basically, we just go about doing things and not worrying too much? Is it really that simple?
Comments
Simple in terms of explanation, more difficult in terms of putting-into-practice. What you say about not much being in our hands... that much is true. We can make decisions and act, but the world is much bigger than we are.
There are some platitudes I could hand out, but it's difficult to be specific about anything without details.
1 If you can fix it, then fix it. If not then why worry about it?
2 ...I've already forgotten the second one. Sorry.
there is just not only white and black, but many different shades of grey in life.
we just go about doing things and not worrying too much - good idea
Is it really that simple - it is simple, but living worldly life with this idea is not that simple.
you put tremendous effort but now zero progress - you can check if the effort was put in right direction in a proper way to achieve the goal. getting frustrated does not help, but it needs to be checked if in achieving the goal, is there a major portion of a factor, which is external and is also a must condition for achieving the goal, then since external things are not in your control, so if there is no progress due to that must condition not happening, so it is not your fault and you can try to work in those directions where you have more control to make your effort and achieve your goals.
Gee betaboy!
Are you really asking what the cause of suffering is?
Hi, yes I think having expectations is a pretty natural thing for everyone from "little things" to big things. Some may not even realize we have expectations until something unexpected happens. In any moment our lives could be turned upside down! Changes occur so often, there is no predicting the future at all. I think sometimes, "things are so secure nothing big will change within the year, I know the track I'm on" and then my whole world is switched in a way I couldn't imagine (that goes for inner and outer changes) this happens sometimes for the "better" or for the more challenging. You have no choice but to "roll with it" I suppose~ remind yourself that nothing is secure about the reward in the future it is all here now, the reward and security is being okay with now. if you can be okay with now; you will be okay with the future in whatever that brings, you become what you practice
Hey, how about just a FEW details to help us out a little here?
Your posts are OFTEN so vague, cloaked in super secret uniqueness that I feel set up before I get halfway through reading. It doesn't make your situation look more important or special by leaving out helpful details, it makes your post more like a sucker punch. People take time to read your posts, contemplate your issues and then write out their best ideas. You could try doing that, maybe.
Have to agree.
Wish you WOULD go into details.
Can move to 'Members -Only ' if you want.
I have done the "Impossible" many times in my life.
What you need is a little budo wisdom!
Question:
How do you kill an Elephant?
Answer:
A little bit at a time.
Get it? Divide the task into smaller chunks. Give yourself a perk every time you finish a sub goal.
Now for some tips:
Try to keep a jovial state of mind. Do not get snowed in on the negative. With a monumental task that will finally grind you down. Actively grow your desire to handle the task. With time your desire will grow less otherwise. (do you know how to do this?)
Eat well, take time to relax before sleeping! Very important! And whenever you have time analyse your feelings and state of mind and end the meditation with reaffirming your goal and the happy state of mind.
/Victor
@betaboy In keeping what with @Victorious said above, I once read a fiction book where when faced with a huge obstacle, one character was taught by another to focus on a single task at a time, and eventually everything will get done.
(The example was an old cabin that was a complete wreck and the child never thought they'd get it fixed up; the elder said to just start with the fireplace and go from there. Belgariad series by David Eddings, I think, if you care at all about that.)
Like @Victorious said above, I have also found myself doing the "Impossible" many times in my life, so I don't agree that "most things are not in our hands."
Many things don't depend on us, it's true, but many do, and if you concentrate yourself on those things you can actually change, a step at a time, a chunk at a time, as the boys suggested above, the task will seem far less daunting.
Life is not pre-determined. Be proactive, be the butterfly of the "butterfly effect" and maybe the ripples of your actions will shake some DO links to accomodate to your personal intervention.
And if in the end you don't succeed, at least you have tried. But above all, drop expectations of any kind. Brace yourself to be accepting of either result.
And BTW, some details would be welcome...
As there `are no specifics to go on I will generals to cover everything.
I'm doing the monumentally impossible right now, and it's always taking me nowhere, but here. Does that make me feel bad or good - not when it is accepted for what it is and it is not; I keep checking up on it but as it seems to remain that way, I tend to find my mind wanders off a little as I become restless just witnessing it (is that all I'm supposed to do?).
I tend to find that after I've given it some attention I have to get on with the task in hand, all the time trying to keep in mind its an impossible monument to grasp - surprising things happen that suddenly remind me it's there again, and bring me back to attend to it. But little things in life need my attention as well. So I try to balance the needs of the big one with the needs of the many little ones. It's quite a nice balance.
Not sure if that was helpful - but there was a little dharma there. Oh look theres some more dharma over there, and there - well I never...
...
Of course it is as simple as to not worry, and not worry about the outcome. To put it into practice when your or others' necks are on the line is another story.
You don't even to tell us what you are doing, you know. But there is a vast difference in responses whether you are talking about, say, the huge undertaking of adopting 5 siblings with disabilities or working on an accounting project at work. Therefore, you are much more likely to help helpful responses by offering just a little bit of information.
Perhaps a little levity from the Brit comedian Benny Hill (in his send-up of poet Edgar Guest) will help to lighten the load:
THEY SAID IT COULDN'T BE DONE by Benny Hill
They said that it could not be done,
He said, "Just let me try."
They said, "Other men have tried and failed,"
He answered, "But not I."
They said, "It is impossible,"
He said, "There's no such word."
He closed his mind, he closed his heart...
To everything he heard.
*
He said, "Within the heart of man,
There is a tiny seed.
It grows until it blossoms,
It's called the will to succeed.
Its roots are strength, its stem is hope,
Its petals inspiration,
Its thorns protect its strong green leaves,
With grim determination.
*
"Its stamens are its skills
Which help to shape each plan,
For there's nothing in the universe
Beyond the scope of man."
They thought that it could not be done,
Some even said they knew it,
But he faced up to what could not be done...
And he couldn't bloody do it!
it is regarding my body... Others may find it silly but it is important for me. And i couldn't succeed despite the Olympian effort i put in...thats frustrating.
You can't change biology or physiognomy.
My step-son would love to play rugby, like his dad did, but his physical build, is tall, rectangular, wiry and lean. He is better suited to endurance sports like running, swimming or rowing.
No amount of working out, weight-lifting or protein-packed dieting will ever change that....
What's the problem @betaboy? Can we offer any specific input?
Everyone has a unique chemical/hormonal makeup, and while in some areas we can make some progress, our genetics does affect our abilities. But on the flip side of that, your genetics and hormonal makeup might not allow you to do one thing, but they will allow you to succeed at something else.
My son is in endurance sports. He is tall, skinny, and he can go forever. He is a runner and nordic skier. He has been frustrated by his lack of placing. A few weeks ago, he got put in a relay that involved sprinting because of someone else being injured and he excelled, despite never having run the race and not having trained for it. Now he's found that despite his endurance, and his tall, skinny body type, somehow, he can sprint. New doors open when others close. You just have to be open to trying something other than what you thought you wanted.
I always wanted to be a runner. But it's not something I do well. But when I went back to my childhood and realized I did well at gymnastics, I tried out yoga, and low and behold, I do quite well at that. You never know, just because you want something and even work really, really hard at it, doesn't mean it is the right thing for you. The only way to know is to keep trying different things, and sometimes, that includes the things that are furthest from your mind.
In any case, any work you put towards those goals, is still good for you even if the end didn't meet your expectation.
Of course, again, I am assuming you mean you are doing something diet or fitness related. For all I know you are getting plastic surgery or rehabbing a serious injury, or starting a transgender journey.
Learn to accept yourself, @betaboy! Don't get so attached to your body and those looks that you described once as stunning.
Years go by, the body ages, and I won't say that beauty fades, but it certainly changes.
Many years ago, when I was eighteen, a friend of mine of the same age complained that men showed far more interest in her mother than in her. "My mother has wrinkles, cellullite and extra pounds, but she's so self-assured and so accepting of her phisique, that she attracts men like magnets."
Be aware of your body's limitations and make the most with what you have.
Just do your best. It's a process/journey. Success is not guaranteed. One day at a time.
I re-read your post, and yes, I agree with what you said about not worrying, and yes, it is possible. Even if we have an end goal in mind, oftentimes we find that the process is more important. And even more, it's amazing how often people finally let go of the end goal, enjoy the process, and the end goal comes to them much easier than when they were trying so hard. There is a lot of stress, I think, that comes into play when we set lofty (or any) goals and don't achieve them, and struggling so much only makes it worse and takes us away from what is important.
When I let go of wanting to lose weight after my last child was born, the weight came off. I enjoyed the process, I enjoyed the food I chose and the workouts I did...because I chose them based on what felt absolutely the best to be, not what someone else said I should do. When I let go of stressing and suffering over my oldest son's school troubles when he was about 10 years old, the opportunities arrived at his front door, with no effort from me. I had to let go for the doors to open to him. Letting go, truly, is key.
Not silly at all, and knowing that detail, just that one little detail opens up worlds more possibilities to get feedback you can use. Body stuff . . . always hard to talk about. 'Nuff said.
I LOVED that series
@dhammachick Still one of my favorite series to this day. He wrote another series, split into "The Elenium" and "The Tamuli", that's better written but not "better" than the Belgariad/Mallorean. Definitely still great though.
Awaiting feedback from @betaboy....
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i want to post the whole story but people may think i am bragging. (or perhaps they already do).
Until 'you' brag, how can 'we' possibly think such a thing of you?
You should know people here well enough by now to know that if you need support, counsel, advice, feedback or simple input, people here are grounded, down-to-earth, honest, and truthful.
If you think we may think you're bragging, it's possible then, that you are. But then again, we're not bitchy for the sake of being bitchy.
Just remember as has already been said: If it's to do with build, condition and physical feature, this too shall pass.
Look, just spit it out ; let's go from there....
OK Betaboy
You waiting for us to beg?
You can hear a pin drop out here.
& kudos for the set up.
Sometimes, we all brag. I happen to have the smartest, and best looking children on the planet. So, now it's your turn.
@karasti -- I'm far too important and far too wise to ever brag about my children or anything else. If you hadn't guessed, I am also a terrifically humble Buddhist.
Eat my spiritual dust!!!!!!
Did any one of you realise that brag is an acronym of grab - associative thinking again on my part - I must stop grabbing at straws!
(anagram. An acronym is something like NASA or UNICEF....a word formed by using the initials of other words, as a means of abbreviating a long-winded title....)
Did I say acronym - yep I did - I meant anagram (hey my spelling checker did that!). @Federica, your like a rat up a syntactic drainpipe...
(you're....)
Hey that's not fair - how can you be allowed to laugh at yourself!
Easy. I do it all the time....
:grumble: ...
>
Ok, as many of you know, I am impossibly good-looking. But my bf% is still not in single digits....this makes the combination rather weird...great face with an ordinary body. But that's okay. What bugs me the most is the amount of effort i put in and getting nothing in return. I know it sounds silly and superficial to most people, but something about not being perfect annoys the f**k out of me, especially when i am blessed with a great face.
On top of that, the frustration....regret, sorrow...i cant explain it. Feel defeated...
Some of where, how much and when you store body fat is due to genetics. So, a portion of it is out of your control if you want to remain remotely healthy.
That said, when you get down to the nitty gritty of competition type body fat %, 90% of your effort has to go into your diet. And it has to be perfect. Absolutely perfect. There is no wiggle room for every birthday cake. You have to figure out what the perfect ratio of macro and micro nutrients is for your particular body, and you have to eat exactly the right amount of them at the right time of day, including before and during workouts. You might be best off actually getting a trainer who is trained in helping people cut for competition to help you with that.
As far as the Buddhist angle goes, I think what I said earlier probably applies best, as far as what I can offer in that direction. When you let go of the high expectations of the outcome, and focus on other reasons for why you are doing what you are doing, you are more likely to succeed. It tends to happen that when people focus to that extent on those kinds of body issues, no matter how much more progress they make, they are still unhappy, and it often leads to eating disorders.
Until you can be happy with you now you won't be happy with you a year from now either even if your bf% is lower.
Frankly, I would also work on the stuff going on between your ears...
It's important that you put things into perspective.
Focus also on the fact that the body ages, transforms, evolves, improves and of course eventually deteriorates.
Look after it.
Feed, nourish and treat it well; do not abuse it by filling it with noxious, poisonous and addictive rubbish which does nothing to nourish you but in fact, aids the premature deterioration of your system.
Research nutrients and eat what builds, not demolishes.
^for sure
It is not simple if you think it is not simple. How can we not worry?
Very easily.
If you have a problem, and there is a solution, there's no point worrying about it.
If you have a problem, and there is no solution, there's no use worrying about it.
I see @betaboy has disappeared again....
Reminds of that thread about the child that ruined the sand mandala before it was time.
However, it can be hard when effort is put into something that bears no fruit. Especially when it involves others that depend on the outcome. Sometimes, we just have to keep trying while learning from our mistakes.
Afterall, the only way to be flawless is to be aimless (or presumably a Buddha)... That's fine when we have no dependants.
Betaboy's dilemma is not extraordinary, who doesn't have a body part or entire body that mars their ideal image of themselves (especially when young). Betaboy's dilemma funds the diet and exercise industry, keeps the money flowing in.
Trust me, even if your body fat were in the single digits, and at least on paper your extraordinary beauty were not marred by imperfection, you'd still suffer exactly as you are now.
Well, I suppose if a person were unusually shallow and self absorbed to the point their appearance DOES matter more than anything, then having achieved their cherished ideal, they might be satisfied . . . for about five or six years.
A pretty face sags and wrinkles along with the rest of that imperfect body.
If this bothers you more than what goes on behind that beautiful face, you have a few short years to achieve your ideal and then it's all downhill from there.
Nope, haven't seen a photo. Don't want to either.
i haven't. I am observing, learning...... As always, there are nasty, insensitive people, which is why i have maintained silence thus far.....
Well if you are going to sulk, and not participate in your own thread, and be touchy and defensive, tell you what. I'll shut the thread and you can tell me when, if ever, you are ready to comment and reply to those who have at least taken the time to contribute helpfully.
I can't see anything nasty or insensitive. And you haven't flagged anything, so it's likely you're just being over-sensitive....
And (EDIT to add), you may like to consider that simply because you dislike or disagree with comments here, it neither invalidates them, nor makes them wrong... Even if they rub you up the wrong way, they are still worth considering. You may perceive them as negative, but they are nevertheless instructive.... )
Ego is a tricky one, @betaboy. Focus on getting that into good shape.
It will serve you far better in the long run than a honed 6-pack.