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Angry...To be or not to be, that is the question?
Shoshin
No one in particularNowhere Special Veteran
in Meditation
Kia Ora,
Overcoming anger is a common theme in Buddhism...
Just out of interest do any of you old timers (those who have been practicing for years') still have bouts of uncontrolled anger ? Or have you got 'it' down pat ? (Able to nip it in the bud before it takes on a life of its own)...
I'm not talking about suppressing/repressing, I mean the ability to dissolve it....
I guess one could say "Mindfulness is the key to success !" How sharp are your Mindful secateurs ?
This thread is open to all who wish to comment, however I mentioned old timers because of their practical experience with Buddhist techniques ....
Metta Shoshin . 
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0
Comments
I don't get angry any more. I see it arising, from a far better distance than I used to, and I very, very VERY rarely ever open the door to it. I still succumb to mild irritation at times, but that's down to you lot.
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I have reached a state in which all my anger dissolves. And then something interrupts my meditation session, and I am really ticked off.
With anger you want to find something to destroy that is getting in your way. My teacher says that awakened anger can be very creative in finding solutions to the 'obstacle'. Anger is a big 'no' to something. For example I often feel confused. So I want this creativity but it comes out as anger because I am having a distorted perspective that 'everything is going wrong'. My strategy is just to orient myself like where I am sitting and what I am doing. For example "I am on NB reading posts. I am frustrated because I can't think of what to say." So the 'no' is in response to feeling confused. So by becoming cognizant of what is there in this case confusion one can relate to it with open arms. Creative wisdom might bubble up, but it is a squirming around until then. For example one wisdom might be 'confusion won't last forever'.
Kia Ora,
On a personal level (for me) meditation is just being in the moment, observing and accepting whatever arises in that moment, be it a thought, noise,(any noise eg a cough,somebody talking, or movement), it's all part of meditation practice...
So I find this quite interesting @zenguitar, that you mention annoyance arises if you're disturbed whilst meditating, but it would seem you're not alone... I realise some people need peace and quiet in order to meditate and the slightest disturbance can destroy their focus...
I have heard about people who practice zazen or other forms of meditation who become quite irate when someone pushes their buttons either accidently or on purpose, or even when there's a knock on the door or the phone rings...
A Dharma friend of mine once told me about her parents who practiced meditation and how her father would get quite angry if her and her sister playing nearby disturbed him whilst he was meditating...
And as far as becoming angry goes, no I don't... The habit I have formed over the years , (through meditation) is to allow space between reactions, giving a breathing space (in the literal sense) which sets in motion a more rational compassionate thought pattern to counter the irrational thoughts that more often than not come with anger...
I guess when it comes to 'nipping it (defilements) in the bud' meditation has help to sharpen my mindful secateurs...
But as they say "Different strokes for different folks !" what works for me might not work for others "One size does not fit all"
Online forums (where anger is inevitable personal attacks and the like and will more often than not fester) are good training grounds to help sharpen ones skills/secateurs...
Metta Shoshin .
..
Every day.
It changes. Now it is often more like frustration and not having patience. The last time it was totally out of control was two days ago, where I needed to walk and run it off. Most of my life is being a repressed angerholic. Will I get through today without unprovoked exploding? I live in hope and practice accordingly . . . :banghead: .
Not an old timer (delighted to have just been promoted to "explorer"
) but I welcome anger. I welcome it when I come across examples of exploitation of the vulnerable. It gives me the energy to do what little I can about a situation. Right now, it is doing what I can to reduce the stigma of mental illness through all sorts of campaigns. In the past, it has involved such matters as drafting contracts so that evils that had been suffered in the past would have financial consequences if they arose again (often the best deterrent in a commercial context). Not much, but without the energy that anger gives me, I collapse in despair at the apparent continual failure to learn from mistakes.
What I do try to nip in the bud are resentment and frustration. Resentment I've never had much of a problem with - I know life is not fair as I have been blessed with so much. Frustration is more difficult, having been taught as a child that I could do anything I wanted if I tried hard enough. Not true. But I know it does nothing but drain me and if I have reached frustration, it means I am trying to do things I do not have the power to do. Pointless! But years of experiencing this destructive emotion have taught me patience and shown me it is possible to endure. Seems to be part of my journey. Grateful to have found this site to guide me further in rising above it.
Namaste.
I think the newly promoted @SarahT has illustrated how anger can be made use off. Channelled, rather than challenged head on, which we may be too weakened by to be doing continually . . .
It depends where you are starting from. If very angry, which I am, you have more demons to deal with in this area. Others may have other issues perhaps centered around [insert issue] . . .
Be kind to yourself. You deserve it. :wave: .
There is a tendency for Buddhists to go into denial. Particularly about anger.
The Buddhists I know who are in denial about their own anger, and there are a few, particularly among the females, don't do anything useful like going for a run or walk.. because they are in denial.
So they assume a beatific smile and get a migraine or stomach upset instead..or pick a fight with their family or partner..later..when the anger has apparently gone.
Anger need not be threatening. The likelihood of most us actually doing harm is not great.
But it needs acknowledging. It needs labelling consciously..not being thrust deep into our muscles and repressing our gut.
" This is anger." .watch it arise and pass.
Don't become a " blissed out hippy desperately being calm " as Lama Yeshe used to say.
Over the years of just growing up and getting over my bad self I don't get angry near as often as I used to. There's a particular anger I rarely feel, where I'm indignant on my own behalf. Someone has to really shove it in my face that they are making an effort to insult me or intimidate me for me to get angry, and then I do. Being angry on behalf of injustice done to someone else if anything happens more often than it did.
I can be quite angry but not act it out verbally or physically in the moment. I was one of those who grew up with a skewed perception, not realizing when I was being taken advantage of or abused, so I wouldn't get angry when it was natural and necessary to do so. Needless to say, that was an interesting few years when appropriate anger reasserted itself and then calmed back to baseline. The ability to not SHOW anger didn't start out as a feat of self discipline, it started out as pure self defense, but it does come in handy. I'm sure people can tell when I'm angry, I don't try to hide it at all, I just don't use the energy as an excuse to lash out and the old, old knee jerk reaction to keep a lid on it comes in handy.
When I'm angry on my own behalf, I'm probably 'selfing' and then I get to discern if it is necessary or appropriate or not. Most of the time it's not. I've had people say "Wow, I don't know why you didn't let that guy have it, he was really nasty to you" (patients and families of patients aren't on their best behavior in hospitals). I take that as a 'sign' of progress along the path of 'not selfing'.
Some people trigger me and I struggle hard with anger, mainly family members where I have a long history with negativity with. It doesn't take much to set me off there
and I have to talk myself down over and over again.
Jill Bolte Taylor (author of "My Stroke of Insight") says in her book that anger, as a neurochemical process, is roughly a 90 second experience, past which the neurochemicals have dissipated, however much or little you've gotten over it. Her recommendation, which makes a lot of sense to me, is to keep in mind that in a minute and a half, that burst in your amygdala or wherever will subside. Ah, the impermanence of anger
My problem is REMEMBERiNG over and over that I was angry and reinstigating the 90 seconds of amygdala pulsing anger over and over again LOL.
Yes...but of course its more than a neurochemical process.
Its whole complex of individual and social conditioning.
It becomes particularly problematic when we internalise a paradigm that says that all anger is destructive and to be avoided at all costs..and Buddhism can be interpreted as saying that.
Much retreat time is spent experiencing the various results of anger that has been repressed for years. Long after the causes of the anger have passed, and long after the neurochemical processes are lost to history.
Our bodies remember. And trying not to be angry makes it worse.
So, if expressing anger is unskillful, and if denying anger makes it worse..what then ?
Awareness. Being with what is. Patience.
Of course I still get angry. Now I just know how to name it and claim it. I usually say what I have to say and move on. Loud and long....hahaha. Usually. Some anger can linger with me, and I'm working more on that part. That's the letting go.
I'm glad some of my anger fuels my social activism and working towards social change. IMO, there is not enough people that get angry over how others are treated and what goes on in society.
I don't walk or run...I clean the whole house....twice....while running off at the mouth...haha
Not sure if this pertains to me as I've only been at the process for 23 years or so but when anger arises, I find it the perfect time to practice compassion. Our anger needs our light of understanding to be overcome (or at least that's how it seems to me).
I do still get angry but when it arises I notice it quicker than I used to and it's easier to let it go.
There’s anger. A smoldering fire most of the time and an outburst occasionally.
The outbursts are interesting. They can’t be ignored and tend to make me curious. What was that about? Where did that come from? (It was their fault of course
but how did I let it get this far?) Could I have reacted smarter? (Very likely, that's a yes.)
I've never been the type who gets outwardly angry except on very rare occasions...more likely to hold it inside. But my anger outbursts, rare as they were, are even more rare since taking a more Buddhist stance on life. I can remember commuting and pounding the steering wheel in bad traffic jams. Then got to the point where I would simply start reciting: "To the Buddha I go for refuge...", and the anger would quickly fade. Other times I just try to make myself laugh to myself over a situation.
>
Like this.....?
My teacher says irritation is due to clinging to clarity. We want to have understanding and feel safe. In the same question and answer session she said that clinging to spaciousness may cause dullness. I have the latter more than the former. But I have this awful (laughing at myself) reaction to when I can't find something. I often blame others and suspect that they are moving around my things like trying to get my goat. When this happens I remind myself that I will probably eventually find it and that the people in my house love me and don't want me to be harmed.
I get angry frequently, occasionally it is even induced. I should probably speak to the ager inducing behavior first to get it out of the way....pretty sure this was not what you were getting at but adrenaline always follows anger. These days as my body shuts down at some of the worst possible moments - I need to make it start working again immediately. Case in point, I found myself behind the wheel of a car when my muscles stopped working correctly and wouldn't respond Friday afternoon. I pointed the car to the nearest ER but was fading fast. Inducing anger got enough adrenaline in my system to get me there. I assume that's not what you are talking about though...
But yes, I do get angry relatively often - but it is not uncommon for me to be genuinely laughing a minute or two later. It comes and then it passes. I have found that, for me, what used to maintain the anger was guilt and shame for getting angry in the first place. Having given myself permission to feel whatever I feel without judgment (or at least significantly reduced judgment), has resulted in very short periods of responses to most things in life.
I don't know if my years of practice are finally bearing fruit, but I don't feel so prone to anger outbursts too often these days.
I am able to detach myself at enough distance from potentially anger-triggering situations as to coolly assess the pertinence of an angry response.
After a couple of deep breathings, I seldom find that the situation at hand justifies a pointless rant.
Anger is a primitive natural reaction to having someone trespassing our boundaries, so I reserve my rare, positively-channelled vitriolic reactions to return a clumsy comment or behaviour back to its legitimate owner.
Anger is also the frustration that arises at things not going the way we want them to go, or things be what we want them to be.
In that case, I make sure to do something about the things that are within my reach to change, and accept those I cannot change.
Kia Ora,
Thich Nhat Hanh on anger.
“When you express your anger you think that you are getting anger out of your system, but that's not true. When you express your anger, either verbally or with physical violence, you are feeding the seed of anger, and it becomes stronger in you.” Only understanding and compassion can neutralize anger."
We can suppress anger and aggression or act it out, either way making things worse for ourselves and others. Or we can practice patience: wait, experience the anger and investigate its nature. Pema Chödrön takes us step by step through this powerful practice.
http://buddhism.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=buddhism&cdn=religion&tm=464&f=21&su=p284.13.342.ip_&tt=2&bt=3&bts=3&zu=http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1309
An't No Good Emotional Response
Metta Shoshin .
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For me, it's one of the indicators of lapses to insanity - try to nip that in the bud and everything else seems to follow suit in the same measure.
"Bouts of uncontrolled anger"? Dude, you're scaring me. I've never known anyone who has that. Maybe try to meditate on the source of that (some childhood issues, maybe?), and work it out.
Anger, as in moral outrage or indignation, can be a good thing. It can move mountains, and motivate people to right wrongs. Tsem Rinpoche refers to that type of anger as "Divine anger". It's anger consciously deployed in the service of ending suffering and injustice. (Think: Mandela, Ghandi.)
Anger, like money, isn't inherently good or bad. It's just a (potential) tool. It's how you use it that determines whether it's skillful or unskillful, productive or counterproductive. A hammer can be used to build shelter for the needy, or it can be used to bludgeon people. Are you in control of your anger? Or out of control? Mindful, or out-of-your-mind? That is the question.
Observing others giving in to bouts of anger is a most enlightening experience, not only about the uselessness of losing it, but also about how we must look ourselves in the same situation.
Which is: through your anger, you just make a fool of yourself for as long as those present can remember the situation, you make people around you shudder with embarrassment, and in the end, you probably can't even change the situation you're getting all worked up about.
I have the fondest memories of those situations in which I could have lashed out heedlessly but was able to choose to keep my cool.
That is part of living mindfully: not giving away our capacity to choose our reaction in every given situation, rather than letting the situation dictate our reaction for us.
Being angry, I have no need to look elsewhere . . .
Lost it at meal time. If in a monastic, mindful situation I would be dismissed for swearing, uncontrolled storming off and general immaturity.
Mindful distraction for unwanted negative thoughts, mindful meditation to help silence the mind, & emotions & feelings control practice for when ever you need to use it..That's what i did for around 10 months, & that led me to becoming aware & in control of my emotions & feelings..It does depend on your level of awareness as to whether you realise before during or after your angry etc, & that depends on how often you practice..At first you will only realise after you we're angry, then with practice you start to realise during, with a shed load more practice you will realise before you get angry..By that point your always aware of your actions & words, & aware that if anyone tries to annoy you..You can & are going to use them for practice at your emotions & feelings control, & you will also be aware that they've never heard of it..I don't manifest any unwanted emotions or feelings, but i could if i wanted to..I did go through a stage where i was bottling up my emotions & feelings, but that was just a stage i passed through until i fully realised i cause them all myself.
@Shoshin
The maturity of a practice can be marked by how quickly we can see arising anger
as
the perfect teacher pointing out a causal attachment in need of being let go of.
I COULD be so angry right now. So very, very angry. You have no idea just how very angry I could be. In fact, 'Angry' doesn't even begin to cover it. And you know what? Breathing. Just breathing, calm, and letting it be. It Is What It Is. No sense at all, in letting 'Angry' even figure. Why? To what end? What would it achieve? In my experience, just more of the same. No, the focus is on new, revise, re-think, consider, strategise.....and on. One step at a time. That's how destinations are reached....
Usually my anger is an expression of my impatience.
I heard a story of the Buddha that reminds me of this.
There was a man who for some reason did not like what the Buddha was doing. He decided he was going to go see the Buddha and voice his anger.
He knew the Buddha was smart so he knew he wasn't going to let the Buddha get a word in.
Anyway so he went to the Buddha and started yelling at him angrily about something. Just constantly yelling angrily at the Buddha.
The Buddha waited for a gap and let the man finish his outburst. The Buddha then said "I can see your angry, can I ask one question?"
The man said "ok one question"
The Buddha asked" if a man comes to your house and stays, is it in your custom to bring gifts?"
The man said "yes it is"
The Buddha then asked" if that man brings a truly horrible gift or token, what do you do with that gift?"
The man said "he will take his gift with him when he leaves"
The Buddha then said " well you've come here with a gift of anger and frustration, I don't want your gift you are offering so you may leave with it"
So the man left angrily and the Buddha remained serene.
Just a note, I've heard that karma is also emotional. So if you allow yourself to get angry, you've just created a seed for more anger.
Rather than using anger as a tool, in the police we used controlled aggression. Not anger.
Anger and I are old enemies. I do not like myself when I get angry. So I have learned to let it go away without acting because of it. It has started going away faster and faster, and weaken in strength except for the noted 90 first seconds to few minutes.
The only thing I'd like to add is that even though i would say I'm aware, it is something that has to be maintained otherwise i would start reacting like i used to..So if i was taken by surprise i might still manifest a slight bit of anger for a second or two, but then my awareness kicks in & i let the anger go..I actually find it hard now to manifest anger even if taken by surprise, because i know I'm causing it not the other person..Bruce Lee was aware in the sense that Eckhart describes awareness, & it was that which made him as great as he was..Bruce Lee never got angry like most people do, he did the training & could channel the energy if needed, if not he could let it go..I only know that because he said it himself & he fought in a no mind state, that's why he was so fast because he wasn't thinking when fighting..I reckon he was a great philosopher..
@Daveadams likewise with samurai, they studied zen so they could be fearless in battle.
The idea was to never think about what your opponent was going to do. Just react. Very interesting stuff. Fighting with no anger.
Yes, mindfulness can have the effect of "dissolving" such emotions. But clear comprehension of how these emotions rise and fall is perhaps the more important aspect of mindfulness - so it's about observing closely and carefully, which can be uncomfortable.
As they say, Sun Tzu's "Art of War" is more about 'art' than 'war.'
The best battle is the one we don't need to fight.
when i think back i was very very angry with some officials and politicians during tsunami disaster (i was like an erupted volcano, words came out that means uncontrolled anger), even that time i had been reading Buddhist books, listening to Dhamma talks and practicing loving-kindness meditation
but nothing helped me not to be angry when i found that officials and politicians disturbed and made obstacles for tsunami aid to reach disaster-affected people
i continue Buddhist meditation practice and try to understand what Buddha says
Now i don't use such strong words like 'hate or anger' to express that mind state, instead i use the words 'do not like (dislike)' which help me not to utter words (that means controlling anger is now working)
however
when seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting etc. sometimes dislike comes into mind and 'can not nip in the bud' then and there that means there is no mindfulness
so it is obvious even though words and acts are controlled mind is not controlled
that means still there is a long way to go
@upekka. I thank you for your honesty. It is so wonderful to hear from Dharma friends like you. I do feel a certain disgust when our officials who fail in their duty only extend and prolong the suffering of others. For me the experience was Hurricane Andrew. It took a very brave woman to bring to the attention of the President just how dire conditions really were. The good old boys in the local Office of Emergency Management were moving with all the speed of molasses on a winter day.
:wave: .
Dissolve eh? You assume anger is unskilful? Mostly it is. Uncontrolled. Undirected. Hurtful to ourselves and others. Excessive meditation can lead to a placating and tranquillisation without resolution. For those self or other destructively angry, that is good and helpful.
However does social injustice make you angry or environmental pillage or [insert bad behaviour]? What can you do with the passion of anger, rather than the lashing out of the unskilful?
The question is one of choice and volitional skilful unmasking and masking . . .
It's always better not to be angry. Easier said than done. The weight of mountains is heavy when carried, or just try to think that there are no mountains. Patience is more often ignored than praised, but is still one of the priceless qualities.
Kia Ora,
The findings are somewhat controversial, but all said and done, it does make one think "amygdala hijack" anger>>>>rage . :banghead: ..
Metta Shoshin .
..
Yes anger can hijack the being . . .
Fortunately Mr Cushion has a solution
http://meditation-research.org.uk/2014/03/meditation-and-neuroplasticity-five-key-articles
Kia Ora @lobster,
I'm always drawn back to the root, thought>words>deeds
The energy generated, (anger just being energy in motion=emotion) can be channelled in such a way (call it 'by skilful' means=meditation), to create a more positive outcome, instead of the ol' "anger begets anger" & "hatred begets hatred" run of the mill "neurons that fire together wire together" kind of reactions...
Beware of the anger trap:
"I'm angry . :banghead: .. and I ought not be angry, but because I'm angry. I'm now angry(at my "self") because I'm angry!"
Metta Shoshin .
..
::
@dharmamom "For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill" - art of war.
I can attest to this! Great book! Have you read the war of art? Haha
@Earthninja: Don't be angry....
@federica why does this not surprise me! All the Einstein quotes as well. Hahah
Wisdom is wisdom never the less!
No, nono! This one is not a fake!
http://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=104
From http://www.buddhanet.net/dhammapada/d_thous.htm
"Verse 103. Self-Conquest Is The Highest Victory
Explanation: One may conquer a thousand men in a thousand battles. But the person who conquers just one person, which is one’s own self, is the greatest conqueror."
From http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.08.than.html
"103-105
Greater in battle than the man who would conquer a thousand-thousand men, is he who would conquer just one — himself. Better to conquer yourself than others. When you've trained yourself, living in constant self-control, neither a deva nor gandhabba, nor a Mara banded with Brahmas, could turn that triumph back into defeat."
@dharmamom I do l