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yagr's dilemma
federica
Seeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
This discussion was created from comments split from: Words of a young offender.
I promised to contain the subject of @yagr's situation in a new thread. here it is. The "young Offender" thread should now remain on topic.
@yagr: if this is ok, I'll leave it in general Banter, but if you prefer, I could move it to 'members only', away from prying eyes, which means that either the reporter would have to join the forum to read the thread, or you'd have to copy, paste and send a transcript.
Totally up to you.
I promised to contain the subject of @yagr's situation in a new thread. here it is. The "young Offender" thread should now remain on topic.
@yagr: if this is ok, I'll leave it in general Banter, but if you prefer, I could move it to 'members only', away from prying eyes, which means that either the reporter would have to join the forum to read the thread, or you'd have to copy, paste and send a transcript.
Totally up to you.
0
Comments
Odd thread for me. As many of you know from previous posts of mine, my wife was given life without the possibility of parole at fifteen years old. We got that overturned in 1992 to life with the possibility of parole in 1992 and she came home to me almost three years ago after twenty-four years.
I became disabled last year and the wife is now providing for us. But she's on parole. She got a new job at the beginning of the summer at 30 hours a week which replaced two part time jobs - one at ten hours a week and the other twenty hours a week. She had to give up both other jobs because they interfered with the new job.
One paycheck in, her parole officer showed up at work, introduced herself to the manager and opened my wife's file for him. The next day she was down to seven hours a week. Forget not allowing her to serve her time and become a productive member of society... the parole officer took food out of my mouth too. I lost twenty kilo's in four months (44 pounds) because we simply didn't have food to eat.
Whatever the solution is, it probably isn't starving folks.
That was wholly inappropriate. Is there something you can do legally?
Surely that's confidential information? In the UK, unless it impacts on a job, (Bank Robber wants to be a Casino Security Guard!) it's illegal to discriminate against someone on that basis.
The parole officer was within her rights. Well, probably not to actually show the file - but to disclose what was in there. Here it is imminently legal - in fact, I would say that it's almost encouraged to discriminate against felons.
It all sounds very oppressive to me - how on earth do they expect offenders to be rehabilitated?
When a job-seeker here applies for a post within a company, there is more often than not, a question on the application form,regarding criminal convictions and records, and in bold letters underneath, if memory serves me correctly, I have always seen "We do not discriminate against applicants who have criminal records, This file is confidential and purely for office use" or words to that effect.
It is natural for a company to seek to ensure it employs the right people for the right job. It's also a question of helping the ex-offender reform, and to not put temptation their way. Therefore, an ex-con guilty of embezzlement, will not be placed in the accounts department - for everyone's sake!
Can your wife seek redress for discrimination against her boss? or hasn't she been there long enough? Can't she discuss the matter with him, and maybe suggest a probationary period with the company?
It's just very unfair....
Thus furthering their persecution. It's a sad state of affairs.
To that effect, prison would end up being more about how to be a better criminal. Instead of actual rehabilitation, we put robbers in with robbers with nothing but time.
"This is how I got caught, how did you get caught?"
There is no lesson to be learned if doing the time doesn't count for anything.
Of course I can only speak for the situation in America, but I think you err if you assume that the general public has any taste at all for rehabilitation.
The extent of 'unfair' may surprise you. First, no; she cannot seek redress. No law has been broken. She tried to discuss the matter with him when it first occurred but he refused to acknowledge that he knew. Four months later, while off duty and drunk, he came in and told her that he was trying to get her to quit as a result of the information he received. If he fired her the company would have had to pay unemployment.
But to take this to another level...
My primary care physician and my neurologist has both penned letters stating that in the climate (weather) I am living in, coupled with my health issues, I might expect to live another two years. If however, I were to move to a climate that is more forgiving for my disease, I might live another twenty years. The Department of Corrections will not let my wife move with me. If I move to extend life, I must do so without my wife.
There is a chance. If I, who cannot work due to my illness and disability, move to the new location (without the means to support myself) and establish residency for six months, then we can request permission for my wife to join me in the new location. They will come out to the place, do what is called a home check - then spend the next six to eight weeks considering it, and then make a decision.
It's a coin toss...but since we can't possibly afford it, I am saved the decision on whether it is worth it to not see my wife for the next eight months in a gamble.
Oh great. So not only has your wife been re-penalised, but you've effectively been handed a premature-death sentence.
Nice.
Words fail me.
Yeah but I just watched a feel good commercial that told me how much my country honors its veterans.
Being a disabled veteran, I feel way better now.
Brutal, just brutal. My heart goes out to you and your wife though you come across as being very strong.
Are there any local politicians or similar you could approach for help?
Thanks for the idea. Have looked into it. The problem is, my wife is on what is referred to as Interstate Compact. She was imprisoned in the state in which she was brought when she was kidnapped as a child. Because she was a kidnapped victim (human trafficking) and a minor at the time, she never did establish residence in the state she was incarcerated in. As a result, she was eligible for the Interstate Compact which provides for a newly released inmate to move to another state on the condition that they have immediate family living there and the parole department approves the living situation.
She had three years parole IF she stayed in the state she was incarcerated in. By taking advantage of the Interstate Compact rules, she was able to move out of state but will be on parole for life. Anyway, the Compact is overseen by an interstate board - which makes local politicians useless. The only way this is going to get anywhere is with a politician at the federal level. How many of those do you see putting their political lives on the line to help a nobody and a felon (descriptions from their pov not mine).
How many of those do you see putting their political lives on the line to help a nobody and a felon (descriptions from their pov not mine).
Unless you could find one who is also a veteran?
This borders on the inhuman.... Here we have a country that celebrates its historical merits regarding the slave trade, racial equality and Christian charitable values, all the while quietly penalising people for wanting to make a better life for themselves, though perish the thought that, in the process of evolving and maturing, they might have taken a wrong turn along the way.... I'm honestly flabberghasted by the craziness of it all.
Really, I am. Unbelievable....
You got that right.
Our system of justice is so screwed up it can hardly be called "justice" at all.
For a person - a 15-year old - to get life without parole is insane. It makes no sense at all, and completely ignores the kact that this person is, essentially, a child. To hold a child to the same legal standards as an adult, regardless of the facts of the case, is beyond cruel and is a defacto admittance that a person cannot redeem themselves.
And then, once the wrong has be set to right, society continues to punish that person.
WTF is wrong with my country????
My wife and I sometimes talk about what we'd do if we hit the lottery. At moments like that, Vancouver or the Cottswolds start looking really good.
I'm not for one second playing the "you're never going to see such idiocy in the UK" card, because there are probably some equally unbelievable things going on here too, no doubt. But honestly, this beats everything I have come across as crackpot so far... I really wish I could do something to help here, but I wouldn't know where to start or what to do....
You know, though I have only ever known you here, I know this about you. It brought a smile to my face and I'm grateful.
Yagr, if you're disabled, don't you qualify for gov't disability support?
Theoretically. I qualify to request it. And I have. It's only been a year and a half. They pretty much deny everyone the first time through. 27% of those folks don't file the appeal. Then they deny you again. Then the hearing stage. Here's the other thing: 14% of all people who apply for disability die before the get it. In that case, the government owes nothing. It makes fiscal sense to deny as long as they can. That is not to say that they should, but taking the human cost out of the equation, it does.
I was getting $197/month from the state (for two months) as a loan against my disability when it does come in. They made me sign a promissory note giving them legal rights to take their money back after I get disability. Then they discovered that I was living with my wife. So they stopped it. Apparently I am not eligible for the state stop gap if I am living with someone. The $197/m is apparently supposed to pay for a single person to rent a place.
Thank you. I shall.
@yagr
If you have your documentation, AND if your disability is on the SS list of "approved" disabilities, they won't deny you. Once they approve you, they owe you back pay going back to when your disability was diagnosed.
Don't you get food stamps? With her extremely part-time pay, she would be eligible for foodstamps now, too.
Will your disability allow you to go through the state job rehab program, to get some kind of home-based work? (Catalogue order clerk, or other phone-based services, for example?)
Be sure to ground the story in the fact that she was trafficked at a very young age. (Was it truly trafficking, or was it a case of a non-custodial parent wanting custody of the child?)
Very traditionally trafficked. Kidnapped by stranger, cross state lines and sold into the sex trade.
Well, my best friends son was cut in half by a train 25 years ago and they denied him three times. Yes, eventually they'll approve you IF you are on the list of approve disabilities and IF their doctors agree with your doctors - and yes, I'll get back pay and that will be wonderful.
That said, it is the case that the back pay will not be able to pay back the loans I had to take against my body to make it to that day. Doctor's visits I did not have the car or, if car, did not have the gas to get to. Medicine insurance would not cover and I could not afford and so did without. etc.
Yes, I get food stamps. With my wife working thirty hours at minimum wage I get $52/month in food stamps. It costs us $20 in gas/petrol to get to the store and back. It's a game - and one I'm not good at. Apply when in need. Wife gets 30 hours a week - here's fifty-two dollars. Wait! Wife is now down to seven hours. Four months later they are still investigating that because you know, looks like a scam. Then she's back to thirty hours. See you were trying to scam us! I receive an order in the mail that they are docking my food stamps for overpayment $5/month until the overpayment is paid.
Eventually. I am allowed to work and earn $1040/month while on SSI disability (I may be off a little but it is close to $1040). BUT! They will not look into a disability case if the claimant is working at all. So, once I convince them that I am disabled, I can work. Before I prove it, I cannot work without getting the disability case dismissed.
:bawl: .
Sometimes I am ashamed to be human. Then you and your wife make me proud. :bowdown: .
I hope you can get SSI. I am on SSI but I had a lot of evidence to present from hospitalizations and so forth. Don't give up on getting SSI.
@yagr, You need to tell all of this to this news reporter. If he wants to join us as a temporary member in order to read everything here, rather than have you copy it all out, invite him, although because the thread is not in "members only" He could also Google it via thread title. Am on my phone at the moment (it's 02.25!) but when I get to my computer I will split off your discussion into a separate thread and title it for easy search reference...
Have you seen an SSI/disability lawyer? You don't pay them....the government does when your approval goes through.
Any veteran groups in your area for support?
I'm going to go ahead and get a hold of this fellow because he specifically champions these types of things (based on the info in this thread) but really, the only possibility I see is that he has, as past of his following, individuals who actually can pull some strings at the federal level. It is a possibility, and seeing as there is a life in the balance, worth the price of admission. But really, I don't see it.
This is America. I am not trying to badmouth the country at all, but each country has its idiosyncrasies. One of ours is, "The forgotten should stay forgotten."
Damn. I have to say it. It's too good of an example. sigh
As I write, I reflect on the words. Occasionally I'll hit the backspace button and change a word or make a sentence more powerful. Then, a moment will come when I have a realization that makes the mind go mad. That's what I'm doing here on this site and so...
As I typed that bit about, "This is America..." on to the end of the paragraph, I heard federica quietly suggest that I might not want to put anything in there that might be seen as disparaging to this country if a reporter was going to read it. The next thought kicked that one out forcibly. "Are you kidding me!" it cried. "What a great final line for a reporter's article."
"He says that Americans believe that the forgotten should stay forgotten. Is he right?"
To which I point a conversation broke out in my head that went something like so,
"That's pretty flippin' manipulative."
"I didn't try to be manipulative! It's the truth!"
"There are a lot of truths; that one is manipulative."
"Just because its emotive and might inspire someone to help, doesn't make it manipulative."
"Then why did you feel guilt?"
"You suck."
I spend a good deal of time trying to do 'the next right thing'. This type of stuff trips me up continually. I move forward in good faith and then I see myself moving toward an action that is exactly the same as it would have been if I had been looking to do 'the next wrong thing'. Seriously, if I was trying to work this fellow? That last line is exactly what I would put in there. Here I was, just trying to explain how it is here to Federica - something meant to be helpful, and the same line falls out.
Then the interminable issue of whether to keep it now, knowing this. I can see the irony to this incidentally. Just let it go comes to mind...and I could do that, I really could. But I'm trying to get more skillful in my behavior/actions/words etc., and it's helpful to examine it first. This one just keeps coming up a lot.
First of all there are different rules for SSI or SSDI. A website that is helpful is www.neurotalk.psychcentral.com. You may find some good pointers as well as support from those who have eventually been awarded their claims. Go to the Social Security Disability sub section. I think you already know that application for help can be very frustrating. Contacting the DAV and VA has been productive for some veterans in my state. Although often you have have to knock on the door many times. Best of luck.
I have. Actually, I believe I do pay them. I've certainly signed papers telling them that I'll be paying them. They take $6000 or 25% (whichever is less) out of the settlement when the back pay comes in. I'm probably splitting hairs but I can be kind of literal sometimes. I figure once I win my case, it's my money, not the governments any longer. If that's not what you meant though, please let me know.
No veteran's groups. Too rural.
I meant no money on the front end...sorry.
One more thing too...as I thought about this some more. This is kind of frightening. Which is not to say that I will not pursue it; because I will. But here's the thing:
Interstate Compact means that she's on parole for life. She is monitored by people who have a great deal of power over other people. It has been my experience that having that type of power changes the vast majority of people. Candidly, they can become sadistic quite easily. Think going to a parolee's manager and screwing up her job because she can.
So let's say this works. Let's say I get in touch with this guy and he prints an article and it gets the attention of people who can make a difference and they make something happen. The powers that be within the Department of Corrections have just (effectively) been told what to do, something that goes against their rules and regulations, by a no good convict. I learned a long time ago, pick your battles with these folks. Retribution can be harsh. Life threatening even.
So we get to move, against their wishes, and hope like heck that they don't feel the need to show us who is in charge once we get there. I'm not talking about making her come in for a urinalysis twice a week during work hours. I'd be concerned about them finding drugs in our home. Or an assault charge during a home visit. Or anything else they can make up and make stick. Remember, my wife was raped by a correctional officer in 2007 - turns out the camera's weren't recording that day (apparently no tape had been running) and the log showing he took her receiving and discharge was missing a page.
Department of Corrections says no and I take action that sets a ball in motion that makes them take action against their will... yeah, scary stuff. But also the next right thing and so...do it any way. Fear's a lousy reason not to do something.
I have been a member for about six months.
I do see your point here, vinlyn. I think there is room for a bit of disagreement though.
I am willing to accept your assertion that your nephew knew what the law was. I'm also willing to accept your assertion that he knew the difference between 'right' and 'wrong' according to societies dichotomous dictums. Furthermore, I'm willing to accept that it was his choice.
I'm going to hold out on the idea that he knew what the consequences were.
Even had he known that, if caught, he would be facing two years - he may have chosen to do the crime. But no one tells you that you never stop paying.
Kind of frightening that my best chance for a long life is if China or some other power invades the United States and overthrows our government. The infrastructure goes down, records lost, chaos reins- I know how to survive in such a situation.
Even more frightening is that I thought long and hard about deleting that out of fear of retribution from a heavy handed government.
I do think you should try to get somebody on your side.
I have family members who came out of the prison system, so I know your frustration. I also know how limited you are on your options. It doesn't matter who was or was not guilty, or what they were charged with. The reality of the world is, most people will never look past the history. They've been told story after story until everyone is scared to give a person another chance.
I never found a magic answer and I don't think you will. Keep fighting. If you're disabled, work on getting whatever money and help is available. The states have made it harder even for that, I know.
It's weird about SSI. Certain diagnoses seem to get approved fairly easily. Others get denied again and again. Or maybe it varies by state. I know people who got a diagnosis of Bipolar, and got SSI either right away, or with the first appeal. (This, in spite of the fact that there are Bipolar cases who function fine on meds.) It seems the cases that would incur years of back pay get put off for appeal. Then there are cases like yagr mentioned, someone obviously seriously physically disabled (run over by a train), who gets denied. The system seems very arbitrary.
In the beginning of the thread I was trying to pin you in a third world country or a dictatorship like China.
But you are actually talking about the states aren't you @yagr?
WTF.
Sorry but I just do not get this. This is insane. I'll never complain about the Swedish government again.
For what it is worth you have my sympathy.
I know there is probably nothing I can do for you but still I will offer?
/Victor
@ yagr
What can you do? For true?
Yagr won't be back for a few days:
I just received a PM from him (which I would add he has cleared me to share with the forum) that his Father-in-Law is gravely ill and is in fact not expected to survive the night. So he will be absent for a few days, but did not want forum members to think he had just fallen off the radar, and disappeared 'on a whim'.
I'm sure he will re-join the forum and thread when able, but he wanted me to reassure all members of his gratitude and continued interest.
Prayers to Yagr (though they'll probably help me more than him).
Thinking of you, friend, for what it's worth.
I'm sitting here in tears. I have no words to express how devastated I am to read this. It makes my own illness and outcome seem very trivial - terminal though it may be.
I'm so sorry
_ /\ _
Thinking of you, @yagr
Me two...
This is beyond heartbreaking, and I can only imagine the level of frustration you and your wife are experiencing right now, @yagr. I'm so very sorry to hear that you're going through such turmoil right now.
@yagr - thank you so much for sharing what is going on for you. Sending you huge bear hugs (((((((((((((((((yagr))))))))))))))))))))))) :cool:
Hiya folks. Just got back in town (Monday morning). The wife works Mon-Thursday and the funeral is Friday. Couldn't afford to miss a weeks work or to stay out of state until Friday so we came back. Unfortunately, her boss gave her shifts away for this week so apparently we're going to figure out how to afford to miss this week of work after all.
As I read the comments, I wonder how much equanimity I've developed over such things and how much is some variation of the Stockholm syndrome. This just seems like business as usual to me - which is probably helpful.
Anyway, I've decided, unless someone suggests something that I haven't thought of, that I'm going to wait to contact this fellow with the NY Times until after I get my SSDI (disability). The fact is, if he got a ball in motion that actually allowed us to move, we couldn't afford to. I'd hate for them to give us the opportunity and we failed to take advantage of it for financial reasons.
The medical suggestion is for me to move to southern California (for the climate) but it's 1800 miles (3000 km) and such a move isn't cheap. In addition, we need to have sufficient money put aside to hold us until she gets a job and a paycheck - both of which can be, as we've spoken about in this thread, tough for a felon in the states. Most of our American members probably know how difficult it can be to rent a place these days too - employment checks, criminal check, banking check, even credit checks. Renting a place in Southern California is tough enough anyway - being an unemployed felon and a disabled person without disability can make it near impossible.
I've worked in SoCal frequently throughout my life as I made my living as a professional poker player. In that capacity, without a traditional job, I've found that paying six months or a year in advance can warm folks to the idea of you renting their place. Two years back disability pay could move us, support us and give us the means to get into a decent place while she's looking for a job. (and of course we can begin the search before we go down there).
I wanted to add, I really wasn't trying to make this thread about me (or us), it just seemed that if we're talking about fifteen year old kids being put away - I might have something germane to say about that based on our life experience. It seems though that I've derailed this one good.
That said, the info is very helpful and I'm hopeful that when I do contact this reporter, a door might open.
You people are awesome.
Welcome back, @yagr.
This thread is now "yours" so derailing is not a factor. The thread focusing on the jailed teenager is now separate.
Whatever you do, take care, all the kindest to your wife.....